katanas

[swordmaster]

hello i was wondering to katanas exsist?

[Eclipse]

Need to post something in here to make the post

[swordmaster]

Need to post something in here to make the post

what do you mean?

[Fedaykin]

The styles of weapons in game vary widely.  Often you can find asian style and arab style weapons as well in the game, including the katana on occasion, although its not a weapon in wide usage.

[swordmaster]

The styles of weapons in game vary widely.  Often you can find asian style and arab style weapons as well in the game, including the katana on occasion, although its not a weapon in wide usage.

would it be that hard to find?. is it not on wide usage because it is not preffered?. is it hard to make ect...?

[Fedaykin]

Yes, since it is not in wide usage it may be dificult to find.  However, the specifics of acquiring that sort of weapon are probably better left to be found out in game, in character.

[Angela Christine]

would it be that hard to find?. is it not on wide usage because it is not preffered?. is it hard to make ect...?

A lot of things are hard to find if you rely on NPC shopkeeper.  You may have more luck with an agent of House Salarr or an independant weapon crafter.  

Are they hard to make?  I'm not expert, but I bet they would be.  A Katana is a long, thin, slightly curved sword that is very sharp, right?  Picture making a katana out of wood, bone or glass.  Hmm.  Because it is long and thin, it will be hard to make one that won't break, especially if the other guy is using a heavy weapon.  And keeping a really sharp edge in wood or bone is difficult, glass or obsidian can easily be made sharp but are so brittle that the blade might break under it's own wieght even before you got into combat.   Without steel it is difficult to make a blade that is strong, thin, long and sharp.  It may be possible, but not easily or cheaply.

AC

Okay, here's the low down on Katanas (IRL)

A quick note as to what a Katana is. It's a Japanese sword, used by the Samurai, about 38 to 40 inches long, also sometimes called a Daito. It's often a two handed weapon (Not commonly used one handed, or easy in fact, considering how most Japanese men in the times it were used were much smaller than Japanese, or any men today) It has a curved blade, and a single edge. So the sharp part is called the blade, the back of the sword is called the curve. It is meant only as a slashing weapon, though sometimes may be used to pierce. You never chop with a Katana, it's purpose is to rip through someone's flesh, maybe take out a few floating ribs, separate vertabrae (Necks anyone?) destroy vital organs etc. Chopping just... doesn't work as well, you don't cut a steak, by jamming the knife down onto it do you? Chopping also puts much unneccesary strain on the blade... which will be explained... now.

The way Katanas are made, are for excellent durability, -and- excellent killing power. Now, you can forge swords in a few ways, you can forge them soft, making them less brittle, but unable to hold as sharp an edge, or you can forge them hard, which makes them brittle but -very- sharp (Like a razor). Katanas have temper-lines on them (The wavy things along the blade of the sword) That temper line is where the hard forged blade meets the soft forged curve. This gives the katana a good balance between an edge that keeps it's sharpness, and a sword that won't shatter with more than a battle's use.

With this in mind, a Zalanthan Katana would be very difficult to create. Wood and bone would be too dull to use effectively with the style (I personally see wood and bone swords as more of chopping type swords) Obsidian would make for a good blade, but would probably not be able to withstand the stress of the style. So if it's not made out of one of those materials (And by that I mean a weapon crafted only of those materials, not a composite) it's probably not going to be something easily found on Zalanthas.

Having said all of that, I really don't know if Katanas exist in Arm.

[Eternal]

Katana could only be made from metal, so if they did exist, they would be very rare... impossibly rare, I would say... as the art of folding steel requires massive amounts of steel to develop to any decent level... not to mention the sword itself would cost more coin than many noble houses seem to have on hand, you'd also have to pay that armormaker who knows not only metalworking, but also techniques of folding steel.

And the folding technique would -definitely- be needed, because it was a process that more than anything took all the impurities out of the metal. In ancient Japan Katanas, when forged, were folded thousands of times. Today, working with already refined metals, only about a hundred folds or so are needed for the same effect.

[Fedaykin]

Katana, at least in Armageddon, are not made only from metal.  There are bone katanas.  Considering there are bone sabres, rapiers and many other thin bladed weapons all made of bone, obsidian and wood, katanas certainly are a possiblity, and should not be heavily expensive.

While bone is not metal, it is (at least on Zalanthas) alot more durable than you are giving it credit for.

[creeper386]

Personally, the only thing I think in Armageddon that would acctually be suited to a katana is chitin, and it might be difficult to get chitin in the right shapes.

From my understanding, the only reason katana are feasable in real life even when made out of metal is because they are a whole bunch of individual thin pieces of metal all stuck together. That is why it's so sharp, and can acctually stand up to any semblance of a forceful blow. Also I think chitin would have alot better chance of being sharp even though it wouldn't stay sharp for remarkable periods of time.

Sabers aren't thin weapons to my understanding and more often then not most single edge blades are heavy weapons, balanced more towards the tip to cut deeper. A rapier is a pointy blade thats flexible, it could be made out of wood I'm sure if it's treated properly. A foil on the other hand being a pointy stick would be harder, as it needs to be able to be flexible in all directions and little flaws would be more prominant.

I personally don't think Zalanthas would have fancy weapons like a katana, theres alot of science involved in making it. It's not a simple weapon. I see more basic weapons, that aren't complicated, can just pick up a piece of bone and sharpen the tip and call it a stiletto type of thing.


Creeper

[Anonymous]

That is why it's so sharp, and can acctually stand up to any semblance of a forceful blow. Also I think chitin would have alot better chance of being sharp even though it wouldn't stay sharp for remarkable periods of time.

Huh.  I always understood katanas and wakazashis to be very brittle relative to a claymore or garden variety broadsword.

Beyond that I've also heard anecdotes that their sharpness was tested by how many criminals it could cut through in a single swipe.

[Anonymous]

Katana, at least in Armageddon, are not made only from metal.  There are bone katanas.  Considering there are bone sabres, rapiers and many other thin bladed weapons all made of bone, obsidian and wood, katanas certainly are a possiblity, and should not be heavily expensive.

While bone is not metal, it is (at least on Zalanthas) alot more durable than you are giving it credit for.

thanks that makes me feel better oh an what is a curved sword of bone or a cutlass arent they a bit slightly near to a katana?.

[Anonymous]

That is why it's so sharp, and can acctually stand up to any semblance of a forceful blow. Also I think chitin would have alot better chance of being sharp even though it wouldn't stay sharp for remarkable periods of time.

Huh.  I always understood katanas and wakazashis to be very brittle relative to a claymore or garden variety broadsword.

Beyond that I've also heard anecdotes that their sharpness was tested by how many criminals it could cut through in a single swipe.

wakazashis are shorter than katanas a samuria road in battle with wakazashis and one they same but longer and a bow...ect

[Impska]

To answer it clearly:

Yes. There have been katana items in the game (two, to be precise).

Technically, these could be loaded up on order easily.

Ic'ly, they are very rare, specially ordered, and therefore more expensive than most weapons. It seems unlikely that anyone would order one for regular use, more for show, or duels, to show off your rare weapon.

[Anonymous]

Katana, at least in Armageddon, are not made only from metal.  There are bone katanas.  Considering there are bone sabres, rapiers and many other thin bladed weapons all made of bone, obsidian and wood, katanas certainly are a possiblity, and should not be heavily expensive.

While bone is not metal, it is (at least on Zalanthas) alot more durable than you are giving it credit for.

thanks that makes me feel better oh an what is a curved sword of bone or a cutlass arent they a bit slightly near to a katana?.

Katana's are weapons made of folded steel giving the blade of the weapon different properties than a solid piece of steel.  You can not fold bone, wood, chitin, obsidian...meaning, you could have an appropriately shaped blade, but not a properly created one, meaning it would not really be a katana because it would not have the correct properties of blade to keep the edge and remain as flexible, resistant to shattering.  It is ONLY possible to make a katana from metal, thus they would be extremely expensive in the setting of Armageddon.

[Swordsman]

If someone's pretty sure there are only two of something in the game and those things are pretty rare/special items, surely posting about them on this board is spreading IC-sensitive information? Whether people agree with me or not, there are PCs in the game for which this knowledge is IC-sensitive. I'm not saying any of them would go out hunting down the owner of the katanas, but still. *shrug* Bottom line IMO: just about any question that goes like "are there ... in the game?" should get a clear "yes, everyone knows they are" (air, water, kanks) or "no, everyone knows they aren't" (smurfs, Tolkien elves, Tolkien dwarves) or "please find out ICly" answer.

Swordsman

[Fedaykin]

Katana's are weapons made of folded steel giving the blade of the weapon different properties than a solid piece of steel.  You can not fold bone, wood, chitin, obsidian...meaning, you could have an appropriately shaped blade, but not a properly created one, meaning it would not really be a katana because it would not have the correct properties of blade to keep the edge and remain as flexible, resistant to shattering.  It is ONLY possible to make a katana from metal, thus they would be extremely expensive in the setting of Armageddon.

I don't care how katanas are made on earth.  When people think of katanas they think of a style and shape of weapon.  As stated multiple times, on Zalanthas there are katanas and they are not necessarily made from metal.  So yes, you could have an appropriately shaped blade, as you yourself stated, and that is what someone would be going for.  No one is claiming a bone katana on Zalanthas should be like a metal katana on earth.

Will it be a katana in the traditional, earth sense?  Maybe not.  Will it be a Zalanthan katana, comparable to other swords made of the same material?  Indeed.

[witchman]

just a note - Katanas are indeed chopping or slashing weapons.

Chopping? Are you referring to RL or Arm?

[Twilight]

The concept of a katana, to me, is a flexible blade with a good edge, in a certain shape.  If you consider this a katana, then they have existed in the game, although they did not go by the name katana in their sdesc, both the longer and shorter Japanese swords, a matched pair, although who knows if they are still around.  In the end they are just objects in a database, easy enough to make and delete, easy enough to replace with the creativity of someone's imagination.

If you cling to the concept katanas have to be of metal, folded, etc. then they probably don't exist, but only the imms would know, and they aren't telling.  They probably could exist, given certain conditions so improbable it probably doesn't bear thinking about.

That being said, whether metal, bone, chitin or wood, the usage of a katana, in that an attack can be a cut that is made where the blade is curved and sharp and drawn across what you are striking to cut it open, rather than just hacking at something, could be RP'd out, taught etc with a number of weapons in game, regardless of material.  If fact, this has been done.  Just because something does not translate directly across does not mean all the ancillary things cannot be used usefully in the game.

[Bestatte]

If the IMPs decide one day to create a new mob, a dog-like creature with antennae and a whip-tail with jagged spikes on its tail, and call the critter a Katana, it would be no less "realistic" than anything else. I think it's a little silly to try and equate real life things to fantasy things. Assuming katana, the weapon, really does exist in Arm, it could be whatever the IMPs want it to be. That doesn't necessarily mean it will reflect that actual real-life properties or description of the "known world" katana.

But Bestatte, therein lies a problem, if they make an item that isn't similar to a real life katana, but calls itself a katana, people are going to think "Hey, it's one of those swords that Leonardo has! (The Ninja Turtle)" when descriptively, it could be an eating utensil. It's as if I were to grab a longsword, and call it a hobble-stick and expect people to know what I'm talking about. Sure, it's possible, but it saves a lot of confusion. Even the Imms know that not everyone gets around to 'look'ing at every item, and therefore will make the sdescs as comprehensible as possible.

Now, I never said that Katanas couldn't be done on Zalanthas, in my first post about it, I did allude to them being able to be a sort of... compound, like a wood spine, with an obsidian blade, you could set the obsidian into the wood. This too, would not be an easy, or cheap process. So I would think that katana items (And by that I just mean fundamentally similar to a katana) would still be a tad rare, as in not in shops.

[deviant storm]

Yes, there are katanas in Zalanthas. I have seen them.

The rest is ic, and if you wanted to find them I suggest, as others have, to try in game.