Clarification on the above karma review:

Because we've switched to a new system, everyone is allowed a one-time extra karma review where we will review all the points at once, meaning you can change more than 1 point.  Normal karma reviews after that will only be for 1 point at a time (and every 3 months vs every 6 from the old system).

Quote from: Windstorm on April 17, 2024, 12:44:22 AMReplacing Karma with Simplicity:

I would delete karma, replacing it with an on/off switch (every player is either a "trusted/experienced player" or not), change special apps into a process called "Rare Roles", and then simplify the process.

I'd prefer this, it also fixes the 30% (if I remember rightly) of magickers you'd have in game and the people who would just play magickers back-to-back for the mechanic benefit.

Quote from: mansa on April 16, 2024, 07:03:04 PMPersonally,

When I'm walking around with a few other players, leading them, I tend to emote "emote heads in this direction", "emote turns west, and heads along the road in that direction."

When I'm leading players, I slow down how often I move from room to room.  When I'm solo, I spamwalk :|


Perhaps it could be changed so that the sheer number of people following you should increase the "before" delay in movement, and echo only from the leader PC.

example:

I currently have 4 other players following me, including a NPC guard.

>north
You start to head north.
(3 second delay)
You move north.

This would only come into affect when moving in groups of 5+ followers.

Oh man assassins, nobles, and other roles with huge posse would become SO assassinateable. I LOVE THIS

Replacing Karma with Simplicity:

I would delete karma, replacing it with an on/off switch (every player is either a "trusted/experienced player" or not), change special apps into a process called "Rare Roles", and then simplify the process.

These would be sectioned off into Rare Roles:
Half-Giants
Muls
Magickers, or at least the (X number of) most popular ones in particular (example: Ruk Empowerment)
Sorcerers
Psis
Templars
Nobles

ALL roles just go through the regular application process, but selecting a Rare Role while doing your app brings up a prompt that these require approval. This prompt would make it clear that these roles are considered rare for a reason and that being declined likely means that the game just has or has had too much of a particular role in it recently.

Players should also not expect to play Rare Roles often. They are called that for a reason; not every role you play will be rare or they will not be rare anymore.

Requesting Approval for a Rare Role:
1. You list the race+guild+subguild you want to play.
2. You list the region they would play in.
3. You list the general personality or role they're being envisioned for in game, no more than 2 sentences long, but it could be and almost should be preferred to be a few words, IE "Allanaki loyalist" "Renegade rebel" "Cave-bound hermit" "Whiran in denial" "Half-Giant Prostitute"

Giving Approval for a Rare Role:
1. Has the player been approved for and begun play with a different Rare Role within the last (X) months? If yes, declined.
2. Does the player have recent notes relating to power abuse or overuse? If yes, declined.
3. Does this player have a repetition of similar roles that this one would fit into within the past (X) months? If yes, declined.
4. Are there or have there been more of this Rare Role active than is properly representing the world population? If yes, declined.

Otherwise, approved.

The goal on both ends is that this should take less than 5-10 minutes both to request a Rare Role and to approve one. No more writing a description or a background until it's already determined that the world could use this Rare Role in it. No more getting your hopes up, no more weeks-long response time, no more need to go through a laundry list of documented checks for every individual player. They're either trusted or not and have either played a Rare Role recently or not.

Note: this was off the top of my head and took me a handful of minutes to write. Don't expect perfection, it's at best a lazy first draft.

Quote from: Lizzie on April 16, 2024, 10:15:37 PMSo Mansa if I'm leading a unit of 4 other people, and a mekillot comes charging in, you think it'd be a good idea to see:

The leader shouts "We're outta here!"
You start moving north.
(3 seconds later)
A mekillot kills you before you ever actually get to the next room.

Flee?  Split the party?

You're not coming off as confrontational. I hope I'm not either. I was merely trying to point out that the lack of special apps is due to policy changes over the years that has literally made them much more scarce as even a possibility, so yes it's a tool, but it's been whittled down so much and limited so much just in the years that I've played it's a much rarer and scarcer tool with seemingly less potency as well (given the discussion of special apps for whole skill sets, stuff like Raesanos werekank, etc etc etc) in the latitude it even /can/ grant players, and it makes me sad.

So Mansa if I'm leading a unit of 4 other people, and a mekillot comes charging in, you think it'd be a good idea to see:

The leader shouts "We're outta here!"
You start moving north.
(3 seconds later)
A mekillot kills you before you ever actually get to the next room.

QuoteYou're also referring to a world/time where people had first 12 special apps a year (no more than one a month!) then around 2010, 3 special apps a year, now 2 special apps a year. So you're conflating this with when people had literally 600% of the special apps per year compared to now, so even with the same player numbers and people special app'ing 'literally as fast as humanly possible', you will see a 500% DECREASE of special apps sheerly by the numbers of what players are allowed annually. It is not fear to special app, it is availability of the option, which has curtailed those numbers.

In response to:

QuoteThere's description here of the special application process, but at some point players became very averse to the idea of special applications outside of rolecalls.  Please keep in mind that these are not bad things.  If you'd like to play something else, don't assume that you just all out can't because of karma.  Use special applications, they're exactly what you're describing here where you just ask a 'DM' to play something.

I'm not sure what you're responding to.  I said to be sure to use special applications and not feel like something was beyond you just because it required a special application.  I didn't do the conflation here.

Edited, because I'm probably coming off like I'm picking a fight:
What I'm trying to say is that special applications became a thing that no one wanted to use.  We made a change to karma that broadened its access (by that I mean every point opened up a ton of options), and that is being drawn back to each point being more limited in what it grants, but also allows the special application to grant similar access to before.  So use it.  If it's something where there's a consistent trend of people running out of special applications, that can be addressed.   But right now it looks like they're trying to handle specific things regarding karma changes, and we need to use the system in place to the fullest.  So when someone is worried about access, be sure to use your special applications, so that this can be assessed.

This is not me saying everything is all hunky dory, because I don't think everything was all hunky dory with what we've just shifted away from, either.  This is a more complicated game problem than just reward and punishment, or access or non-access, or availability, or what populations are possible.  It's one system to try and mix all concerns of that nature, which means it will be naturally flawed from the get-go because of all the different use cases it has to cover.  But we have not found any good way to address all of those things in any other way, and more often than not, have different groups of people holding firm on different stances instead of suggesting viable alternatives that address all of those concerns.

So...my statement was to make sure that the tools that ARE here are used.  Use them well.  With this backwards shift, we'll need to use the previous system of special applications whenever possible for roles we want that are currently beyond our reach.  At the very least, it means we know we're going after a role that may be rejected, instead of having the idea that because it's not a special application, we should never be turned down for any one of those concerns.
I'm not sure what you're responding to.  I said to be sure to use special applications and not feel like something was beyond you just because it required a special application.  I didn't do the conflation here.

If you could link it to leading a wagon/argosy through a storm that might be a fun way of making the standard Byn escort activities a bit more crunchy.

That said however, I have no idea how you could implement it from a code point of view.

Upending entire systems because 10% of people (or less, really, since that's just 10% of people who bother specapping) did a thing is the entire theme of this thread.