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11
World Discussion / Re: The Rinth Needs Teeth
« Last post by Greve on Today at 12:13:21 AM »
Most organizations are not as focused on activities that have the high potential of PK that the Guild (often) is.  Thus they get a lot more rope (to hang themselves?) in terms of stuff that can happen before the higher ups get involved.  And folks tend to get touchy when a Guild NPC is animated and single handedly wipes out most of a player clan, even though that is a realistic response. 

In short, a realistic response may not be the best response for the game.

Well, I put it to you that other than the fundamental design of the clan, the main reason that the Guild has this "high potential of PK" is that there's just nothing else for the clan to do. You end up in a situation where you're playing an actual outright member of the mafia, yet you have no built-in ways to be relevant except for PKing. You're told to sell spice, and when that inevitably fails because spice is a total dead end due to various coded problems, you sit there going "now what?" Then one day someone tries to hire you to do a hit, and whether you fail or succeed, it was something to do. It was a reason to exist, often after months without any such thing. If the Guild was not such a hollow shell of facades and make-believe, there might not be this crippling case of PK-or-nothing. Either way, it's quite clear after all these years that something doesn't work, and it is my perception that the "leave them completely to their own devices" approach is part of it. It's non-support. The Guild has nothing to work with. The only time I've ever known the clan to really matter was when three mindbenders and an immortal demon were in it. Since that wacky era, it has been non-stop failure for a decade. They just never manage to become relevant for any length of time.

If you want to have a clan in the game that is tantamount to the literal mafia, you need to give it the backing that lets the clan operate in such a way. If you don't want to give the clan that kind of backing, there shouldn't be a clan that's meant to be regarded as the mafia. There's a disconnect here between what people seem to expect of the Guild and what it's actually capable of, because with absolutely zero staff support whatsoever, it's just not going to do what it says on the tin. That's just the way it is. I say try it once and see if the world ends. I expect it doesn't. The Guild has less staff support (of the tangible kind, not the respond-to-requests kind) than any given shitty tribe that nobody ever cared about, yet it's designed as if it needs more than any other clan. Give it the support it deserves for two months, and if the game doesn't fall apart in the process, keep it up.

Otherwise it's basically like if the militia had no templars and no NPC soldiers to aid in law enforcement--in other words, utter futility and pointlessness.
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General Discussion / Re: Release Note discussion!
« Last post by X-D on September 22, 2019, 11:41:19 PM »
Nice to know.
13
Code Discussion / Temporary alphanumeric keywords
« Last post by MeTekillot on September 22, 2019, 11:37:51 PM »
A command that would temporarily add a keyword to you (1a, 2b, 7f, 4e, etc) that would append that in parenthesis to the end of your short description.
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World Discussion / Re: The Rinth Needs Teeth
« Last post by Hauwke on September 22, 2019, 11:20:45 PM »
I can't help but feel like we have some people arguing that the PC chapter of the Guild is so small and irrelevant to the organization that there really wouldn't and shouldn't be a reaction when someone invariably wipes them out once or twice a year. It's like some people feel that the PC leader of the clan is little more than an errand boy for the higher-ups. While certainly the clanlead isn't the actual ruler of the Guild, they're an underboss. They're at least as significant to the organization as, say, a capo in a typical mafia setup. And, more importantly, since those above the clanlead never really come into play in any way, it stands to reason that one can assume that the veteran PC members of the Guild are included in the documentation for the clan; the parts where it says that the Guild is widely feared and has a finger in most dealings throughout the city. Because if not them, then who? It is a significant role, and the clan is meant to be taken seriously. The fact that it generally isn't is a problem that should be addressed, and players clearly haven't got the means with which to do that themselves.

A junior noble wouldn't be considered to have much of a say in the inner workings of House Borsail, but you'd still very much incur the wrath of their house if you attacked or otherwise crossed that noble. The same should be the case for the Guild. If somebody murders the current clanlead and their top henchman or whatever, and there happen to be no PCs left to do anything about it, I'd expect the clan staff to do something that at least reflects the fact that someone's preying on literal made members of the mafia. I've had Tuluki master bards animated to threaten me for singing satire about their members, so if you can murder full members of the Guild with impunity, there's a huge rift in the Reality vs. Setting department. Yet I've seen that very thing happen time and time and time again, easily 10 times over the years. I have never once seen the higher-ups of the Guild do anything whatsoever, despite having played as a full member of the clan probably about five times. And I don't just mean I haven't seen them retaliate over murder, I mean I've never seen them do anything at all, ever. For all intents and purposes, they do not exist. For all intents and purposes, the Guild really does comprise only the ragtag trio of miscreants and enforcers that make up their PC population at any given time.

We get realistic world responses if we do something crazy and there are no PCs around to react, but somehow this is strangely absent whenever someone does the annual culling of the Guild. It's the one clan for whom the documentation is the furthest from reality, and until that changes, I doubt the 'rinth will have teeth. Or a healthy population.

Most organizations are not as focused on activities that have the high potential of PK that the Guild (often) is.  Thus they get a lot more rope (to hang themselves?) in terms of stuff that can happen before the higher ups get involved.  And folks tend to get touchy when a Guild NPC is animated and single handedly wipes out most of a player clan, even though that is a realistic response. 

In short, a realistic response may not be the best response for the game.

If they get touchy about realistic responses, that is on them. This is a role-playing game, not a power fantasy.
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Non-Armageddon Discussion / Re: A Random Thought
« Last post by Namino on September 22, 2019, 10:51:35 PM »
Coyote in the background being a nosy neighbor.
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World Discussion / Re: The Rinth Needs Teeth
« Last post by Brokkr on September 22, 2019, 10:38:19 PM »
I can't help but feel like we have some people arguing that the PC chapter of the Guild is so small and irrelevant to the organization that there really wouldn't and shouldn't be a reaction when someone invariably wipes them out once or twice a year. It's like some people feel that the PC leader of the clan is little more than an errand boy for the higher-ups. While certainly the clanlead isn't the actual ruler of the Guild, they're an underboss. They're at least as significant to the organization as, say, a capo in a typical mafia setup. And, more importantly, since those above the clanlead never really come into play in any way, it stands to reason that one can assume that the veteran PC members of the Guild are included in the documentation for the clan; the parts where it says that the Guild is widely feared and has a finger in most dealings throughout the city. Because if not them, then who? It is a significant role, and the clan is meant to be taken seriously. The fact that it generally isn't is a problem that should be addressed, and players clearly haven't got the means with which to do that themselves.

A junior noble wouldn't be considered to have much of a say in the inner workings of House Borsail, but you'd still very much incur the wrath of their house if you attacked or otherwise crossed that noble. The same should be the case for the Guild. If somebody murders the current clanlead and their top henchman or whatever, and there happen to be no PCs left to do anything about it, I'd expect the clan staff to do something that at least reflects the fact that someone's preying on literal made members of the mafia. I've had Tuluki master bards animated to threaten me for singing satire about their members, so if you can murder full members of the Guild with impunity, there's a huge rift in the Reality vs. Setting department. Yet I've seen that very thing happen time and time and time again, easily 10 times over the years. I have never once seen the higher-ups of the Guild do anything whatsoever, despite having played as a full member of the clan probably about five times. And I don't just mean I haven't seen them retaliate over murder, I mean I've never seen them do anything at all, ever. For all intents and purposes, they do not exist. For all intents and purposes, the Guild really does comprise only the ragtag trio of miscreants and enforcers that make up their PC population at any given time.

We get realistic world responses if we do something crazy and there are no PCs around to react, but somehow this is strangely absent whenever someone does the annual culling of the Guild. It's the one clan for whom the documentation is the furthest from reality, and until that changes, I doubt the 'rinth will have teeth. Or a healthy population.

Most organizations are not as focused on activities that have the high potential of PK that the Guild (often) is.  Thus they get a lot more rope (to hang themselves?) in terms of stuff that can happen before the higher ups get involved.  And folks tend to get touchy when a Guild NPC is animated and single handedly wipes out most of a player clan, even though that is a realistic response. 

In short, a realistic response may not be the best response for the game.
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General Discussion / Re: Release Note discussion!
« Last post by Brokkr on September 22, 2019, 10:27:31 PM »
If you get the gem in the Allanak starter room, you are now considered manifested, from a code perspective.  If you don't, you will enter the game as un-manifested.  At some point (intentionally nebulous) magick use will cause your character to be considered manifested.  If you are not manifested, there are some very specific things that will work differently for your character.

As for threaten, I intentionally kept it to things that don't have any delay before skill use (thus no backstab/sap) and that you had to be close to do (thus no charge).  Threaten isn't meant as a mechanism to bypass delay like backstab/sap cause the attacker beforehand and there is some insanely twinky behavior that would be possible if we had allowed it (think shadowing someone that is walking suddenly and slapping a threaten on them to backstab them rather than waiting for them to stop).  This change should give threaten some more teeth, make it a little more strategic in that the person threatened won't know exactly what will happen, and hopefully offer the attacker ways to deal with the issue of folks simply fleeing while you are in kill lag.
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Player Announcements / Re: Ocotillo Festival Sept 20th-22nd
« Last post by Veselka on September 22, 2019, 07:48:33 PM »
Sunday 9/22

8pm  Salarr Auctions Nobles and Commoners to run concurrent. Commoners Auction will be held in the Salarr Pavillion, with the Nobles event in the Oash pavillion.


This will be starting shortly around 8PM EST/5PM PST.
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World Discussion / Re: The Rinth Needs Teeth
« Last post by Bebop on September 22, 2019, 07:25:06 PM »
Everything Greve just said.  The scariest crime organization in the Known doesn't just randomly give any schmuck access to all of their coin and holdings then watch them get cut down and go lulz oh well.
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Player Announcements / Re: Ocotillo Festival Sept 20th-22nd
« Last post by Veselka on September 22, 2019, 06:39:50 PM »
Sunday 9/22

7 pm Musical Knives in the Salarr pavilion


Hold on to your butts, starting shortly.
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