Armageddon MUD General Discussion Board

General => World Discussion => Topic started by: Gentleboy on September 07, 2019, 04:28:43 PM

Title: Where Does Water Come From?
Post by: Gentleboy on September 07, 2019, 04:28:43 PM
Hi all,

I was zoning out on the train to work and thought to myself, where do those water sellers get water from? And now Iím asking you this. Iíve never seen it rain, Iíve never seen a river or lake. If they get it all from water mages- what about those who hate magick?

Another question/idea. If people tradable far to get water or dig it from the ground, why not have another potential Grebber job? But the water can only be purified by NPC sellers? Just some thoughts.
Title: Re: Where Does Water Come From?
Post by: Hauwke on September 07, 2019, 05:36:32 PM
I imagine, a lot of Allanak's water comes from mages, for the most part. There is no way that some kind of underground well hasn't run dry.
Title: Re: Where Does Water Come From?
Post by: Gracchus on September 07, 2019, 07:40:03 PM
It is possible and imo even likely that Allanak's water comes primarily from the Highlord's magic. Other people...well, water bubbles up in a few places in the world.
Title: Re: Where Does Water Come From?
Post by: Eluin on September 07, 2019, 07:50:59 PM
Keep in mind that even if it IS created with magick, that doesn't mean the populace as a whole would be aware of that fact. And if it was by the will of the highlord... well, that's completely different from those witches and is 100% ok anyway obviously.

I suspect it's more of a mix though, magick + some natural sources like underground springs and the like.
Title: Re: Where Does Water Come From?
Post by: gotdamnmiracle on September 07, 2019, 08:26:43 PM
Isn't all instances of water a manifestation of vivadu? Like you could easily theorize that all aquifers are just portals to Vivadu bleeding water into the Ruk, just as much as Suk-Krath is one big opening to the plane of fire, cooking everyone for however many hours a day.

The Known may very well exist in the eye of the storm of all the elements. Hence why the known ain't very big.
Title: Re: Where Does Water Come From?
Post by: Hauwke on September 07, 2019, 08:38:30 PM
Isn't all instances of water a manifestation of vivadu? Like you could easily theorize that all aquifers are just portals to Vivadu bleeding water into the Ruk, just as much as Suk-Krath is one big opening to the plane of fire, cooking everyone for however many hours a day.

The Known may very well exist in the eye of the storm of all the elements. Hence why the known ain't very big.

Don't you go changing my head cannon into something that cool dammit.
Title: Re: Where Does Water Come From?
Post by: X-D on September 08, 2019, 06:11:35 AM
Also....This is totally a "find out IG" Situation. It is likely one can find this out in game...it is also likely that doing so can be pretty cool and nobody would wish to ruin it.

It is possible what you find is not the answer but cool all the same.

 ;D
Title: Re: Where Does Water Come From?
Post by: Dar on September 08, 2019, 04:50:33 PM
There is definitely lore about certain locations and their water supply.


Some of it is exploration based, some of it is sikrit, some of it is openly known if you read the histories of different settlements.
Title: Re: Where Does Water Come From?
Post by: perfecto on September 09, 2019, 06:07:14 PM
Also....This is totally a "find out IG" Situation. It is likely one can find this out in game...it is also likely that doing so can be pretty cool and nobody would wish to ruin it.

It is possible what you find is not the answer but cool all the same.

 ;D

(finds water source) Cool! lets see where it comes from
(Jumps in, drowns instantly)  Krath, should have tried holding my breath

the mystery continues...
Title: Re: Where Does Water Come From?
Post by: Magnate on September 09, 2019, 06:30:26 PM
Also....This is totally a "find out IG" Situation.
Title: Re: Where Does Water Come From?
Post by: Hauwke on September 09, 2019, 07:16:12 PM
Also....This is totally a "find out IG" Situation.

Find out the actual answer, sure. But people are allowed to make guesses and discuss the merits of said guesses.

Though, honestly the Discord is far better for that than the forum. But still.
Title: Re: Where Does Water Come From?
Post by: Magnate on September 09, 2019, 10:47:47 PM
If it is not in a publicly- available helpfile or document, it should not be discussed out-of-game.
Title: Re: Where Does Water Come From?
Post by: gotdamnmiracle on September 10, 2019, 02:05:28 AM
If it is not in a publicly- available helpfile or document, it should not be discussed out-of-game.

What is this quote from? It's not attributed. What are the italics supposed to imply?

I had a much longer post, but in the wake of several closed threads I'd like to keep things civil.
Title: Re: Where Does Water Come From?
Post by: Hauwke on September 10, 2019, 02:21:30 AM
If it is not in a publicly- available helpfile or document, it should not be discussed out-of-game.

What is this quote from? It's not attributed. What are the italics supposed to imply?

I had a much longer post, but in the wake of several closed threads I'd like to keep things civil.

Yeah, I was going to go on a tirade about it, but honestly couldn't be bothered.

That said!

Half of the GDB should be removed if that is the case. We aren't allowed to talk about ANYTHING not in the docs supposedly. So that entirely removes the vast majority of everything related to the game. That removes putting ideas out there.
Title: Re: Where Does Water Come From?
Post by: Raptor_Dan on September 10, 2019, 08:45:14 AM
I thought it was widely known that water comes from blood. The spilled blood of all those lost adventurers who've died in the desert, the nobles, the gith, the beasts. The blood sinks into Ruk, and is eventually pooled up somewhere like a bladder, clean and filtered through salt and sand. In cities, Wells are just taps into the veins or Ruk, bleeding the element dry so it's little parasites can live longer.

Idk where I was going with that. Where does water come from? Vivadu just decides where water goes. In the case of gicker's, they steal it from the skins of hardworking citizens. That's why if your waterskin isn't sealed perfectly tight, there's less water in it after the day's end. The only place to get honorable, gick-less water is in Allanak. The Highlord personally wrestles Vivadu to the ground, makes her weep and collects her tears in his well.

Probably.
Title: Re: Where Does Water Come From?
Post by: Magnate on September 10, 2019, 10:06:51 AM
If it is not in a publicly- available helpfile or document, it should not be discussed out-of-game.

What is this quote from? It's not attributed. What are the italics supposed to imply?

I had a much longer post, but in the wake of several closed threads I'd like to keep things civil.

http://armageddon.org/help/view/Rules
Title: Re: Where Does Water Come From?
Post by: gotdamnmiracle on September 10, 2019, 01:04:39 PM
I would call this cherrypicking and flagrant disregard to context. You cheerily edited that full rule to make it appear like this was a violation while not actually being one. You should work for politicians, bud.

6. Sharing or discussing relevant in-game information via out-of-character means is discouraged. Relevant information includes but is not limited to information from within the last year, involving living characters, or involving game mechanics. The rule of thumb is: if it is not in a publicly- available helpfile or document, it should not be discussed out-of-game. This goes for use of the OOC command in game as well as any out-of-game communication. If we find that you are sharing or discussing in-game information, punishment can range from a warning, to karma reduction, to storage of your character, to temporary or permanent bans.

None of this is info within the last year, involving living PCs, and is not mechanics, but conjecture about the gameworld, I.e. not verifiable. No staff member have edited any posts nor told us to simmer down and there's an entire board dedicated to conjecture about the game-world. Until staff weighs in ant tells us to shut up do I see it reasonable to do so. Nothing as of yet is over the line.

As a follow up, rule 1 on that page you linked states how paramount roleplay is to the game. Perhaps the OP was asking so they don't RP improperly by talking about getting water from the big lake, or wells below Allanak, or any other several things that don't exist because they don't know any better.

I don't understand why certain posters get so super jumpy when it is not only not their job to moderate these forums, but to police others. What's your end goal in stopping this discussion, Magnate? Good boy points? Are you getting commission for this? Self esteem?
Title: Re: Where Does Water Come From?
Post by: Delirium on September 10, 2019, 01:41:39 PM
Trolling is also against the rules, so be nice.

Speculation about world lore does not cross the line, imo. Just so long as everyone understands that it is speculation. It is also possible to investigate and speculate IC, which may arguably be more fun, regardless of if what's discerned is the "real" truth.
Title: Re: Where Does Water Come From?
Post by: gotdamnmiracle on September 10, 2019, 01:42:51 PM
Trolling is also against the rules, so be nice.

I'm not trolling. Nothing I said was an attempt to incite anyone. I'm pretty sure most would agree that you forfeit your right to civil discourse and are open for criticism when you alter quoted regulations to fit some personal narrative. You can accuse me of derailing the topic, but pointing out a poor argument and debating it is far from trolling. Don't equate those things.

If you're talking about the bit regarding good boy points, that was literally a question. I imagine some point that finger and yell witch because they think staff will notice them.

For the sake of this thread, Delirium, if you want to continue this line of thought then PM me.
Title: Re: Where Does Water Come From?
Post by: Jihelu on September 10, 2019, 01:55:06 PM
Person: Don't talk about anything not in the docs

Person 2: Asks why, pointing out relevant rule

Person 3: Stop trolling

I don't get this entire exchange at all.


Anyway: Where does water come from?

I think in Dark Sun the water supplies are so low and that has, in response, weakened the fuck out of the plane of Water. So I like to imagine that Vivadu is influenced BY our world, and not necessarily vice versa (Atleast, on a massive scale)

Dark Sun also used to be a giant ocean that slowly got smaller because hot sun, so I imagine most water supplies are just extreme underground reserves that, thank the highlord, exist. Other than that:

I have no fucking clue where water vendors, like random on the side of the street, get their water.
Title: Re: Where Does Water Come From?
Post by: JohnMichaelHenry on September 10, 2019, 02:38:03 PM

I have no fucking clue where water vendors, like random on the side of the street, get their water.

And they ain't gonna spill ( pun intended )
Title: Re: Where Does Water Come From?
Post by: Hauwke on September 10, 2019, 05:02:32 PM
If it is not in a publicly- available helpfile or document, it should not be discussed out-of-game.

What is this quote from? It's not attributed. What are the italics supposed to imply?

I had a much longer post, but in the wake of several closed threads I'd like to keep things civil.

http://armageddon.org/help/view/Rules

The wording of it is 'discouraged'.
Title: Re: Where Does Water Come From?
Post by: kahuna on September 10, 2019, 09:11:41 PM
I think in Dark Sun the water supplies are so low and that has, in response, weakened the fuck out of the plane of Water. So I like to imagine that Vivadu is influenced BY our world, and not necessarily vice versa (Atleast, on a massive scale)

Dark Sun also used to be a giant ocean that slowly got smaller because hot sun, so I imagine most water supplies are just extreme underground reserves that, thank the highlord, exist. Other than that:

Dark Sun is quite a different world than Arm. It does in fact rain once or twice a year on Athas, during these times the cities tend to catch as much as they can and the crops tend to come only once a year due to this rare rain. In the forest ridge on Athas it rains once a month or so.

Dark Sun wasn't a giant ocean.. it was the normal setting of D&D that was twisted and ruined by defiling magic. The canon goes that most races were wiped out by the Cleansing Wars of Rajaat. This explains the lack of ogres, orcs, etc. Rajaat had a champion that eradicated each race. Several of these champions obviously failed.

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Rajaat
Title: Re: Where Does Water Come From?
Post by: Jihelu on September 10, 2019, 10:18:22 PM
I'm farily certain the Age of Blue had the entire world as Oceans + Islands, fit with telepathic dolphins.

I suggest you read here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Sun#The_Blue_Age

Rajaat fucks up the world long after, but the sun had already been corrupted before then (Corrupted meaning Blue to Yellow, Rajaat would make it red and make things hella shitty). Thanks Sun magic/flesh mending halflings.
The point doesn't matter anyway. I clarified 'In Dark Sun' with the intent on giving a possible example, out of many.


Also I wouldn't consider Dark Sun 'normal' by any means, I can't think of a single DND world where the normal lore and history is "Gods are Gone/Dead because Elementals fist fought it out, Halflings made almost every race beside a few with flesh mending, and everyone is psionic as hell"
Title: Re: Where Does Water Come From?
Post by: Riev on September 11, 2019, 09:26:49 PM
If I try to enforce random rules, can I have free karma? Surely being pedantic on the GDB is how to get into good graces.

Also. The world probably had a ton of water in the Age of Man. I wouldn't be surprised if its only a "Desert" biome for the first 6 squares down, then it turns into water and caves.
Title: Re: Where Does Water Come From?
Post by: Krath on September 12, 2019, 02:40:03 AM
Water comes from three sources on Zalanthas:
1. Water Mages
2. The Oceans
3. Rain Clouds
Title: Re: Where Does Water Come From?
Post by: Inks on September 12, 2019, 01:49:53 PM
If it is not in a publicly- available helpfile or document, it should not be discussed out-of-game.

If it isn't in the archives, it simply doesn't exist!
Title: Re: Where Does Water Come From?
Post by: Shalooonsh on September 12, 2019, 07:38:25 PM
Noticed a big upswing in troll posts lately.

Not really liking it too much.

So I've been listening to this song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CR0AGntnmF8
Title: Re: Where Does Water Come From?
Post by: Gentleboy on September 13, 2019, 12:04:51 AM
Alright, I was sincerely interested in the topic of water and this post has become a doo doo factory. Can I ask an admin to close it?