Armageddon MUD General Discussion Board

General => Code Discussion => Topic started by: Eyeball on July 25, 2019, 04:29:06 PM

Title: Why are there no arrowheads made of bone?
Post by: Eyeball on July 25, 2019, 04:29:06 PM
We have swords with blades of bone, axes of with bone heads, spears with bone spearheads, and so on. Plenty of throwing weapons made of bone. Why isn't it possible to fashion an arrowhead from bone? Why must it be made of stone or chitin?
Title: Re: Why are there no arrowheads made of bone?
Post by: Hauwke on July 25, 2019, 06:01:06 PM
It's possible no one has made them. Its a gap in the things we have.
Title: Re: Why are there no arrowheads made of bone?
Post by: kahuna on July 25, 2019, 06:43:00 PM
Pretty sure I've seen arrows with a bone head but it was a long time ago. I also think that crafters will do what works especially when it comes to weapons for killing, obsidian is way sharper and would probably fly truer than bone? Just speculating though.
Title: Re: Why are there no arrowheads made of bone?
Post by: Riev on July 25, 2019, 07:17:21 PM
I am not wasting a 2 custom crafting slots to have a bone-tipped arrow and bolt, when there are DOZENS of recipes and they all basically do the exact same thing.

I know the rework hasn't been done yet, specifically, but its like using a slot for ANOTHER 1d6 dagger. There are 15 of them, but yours is going to be special... even though its still 1d6.
Title: Re: Why are there no arrowheads made of bone?
Post by: Eyeball on July 26, 2019, 08:56:12 AM
So instead there's a situation of artificial scarcity. Plenty of pieces of bone available to work with, but if you want to actually make an arrow, you have to acquire the right sort of stone. Which the stone shops don't have for some reason.
Title: Re: Why are there no arrowheads made of bone?
Post by: Riev on July 26, 2019, 09:05:18 AM
So instead there's a situation of artificial scarcity. Plenty of pieces of bone available to work with, but if you want to actually make an arrow, you have to acquire the right sort of stone. Which the stone shops don't have for some reason.

Depends on your area.

I can say with confidence, with the fletchery skill, I can think of 3-4 different locally sourced materials in my area that make arrowheads in SOME CAPACITY. One may be Salarr/GMH only, not entirely certain.
Title: Re: Why are there no arrowheads made of bone?
Post by: Synthesis on July 26, 2019, 03:15:16 PM
So instead there's a situation of artificial scarcity. Plenty of pieces of bone available to work with, but if you want to actually make an arrow, you have to acquire the right sort of stone. Which the stone shops don't have for some reason.

A good forager can crank out well over 100 shards in less than an IC day.  If you can't forage it for yourself, find someone who'll do it for you.

That being said...obviously "a piece of bone" should be a part of a dozen different bone arrow and bolt recipes.
Title: Re: Why are there no arrowheads made of bone?
Post by: Halcyon on July 26, 2019, 11:12:43 PM
Its not hard to get shards or other materials for arrowheads.  They simply arent worth gathering and moving with the fixed price of other goods like obsidian chunks, gemstones, glass, or hides.

I think the problem you want to solve is material storage.   In the absence of safe apartments or clan building storage or warehouses, you get an economy of weight.
Title: Re: Why are there no arrowheads made of bone?
Post by: Synthesis on July 27, 2019, 11:27:32 AM
Its not hard to get shards or other materials for arrowheads.  They simply arent worth gathering and moving with the fixed price of other goods like obsidian chunks, gemstones, glass, or hides.

I think the problem you want to solve is material storage.   In the absence of safe apartments or clan building storage or warehouses, you get an economy of weight.

They aren't worth gathering and moving if you're just randomly picking them up and hoping to sell them to someone.  They can be worth quite a bit in terms of reward/time*risk if someone specifically needs a bunch of them, and you're the only one willing to go and grind 'em out.
Title: Re: Why are there no arrowheads made of bone?
Post by: Dar on August 14, 2019, 11:03:15 PM
Take a chunk of rock, tossit hard against the ground so it splinters into myriad pieces. Pick up the sharpest and you've got an arrowhead.

Bone is a little harder. You gotta sharpen it, it can splinter. I suppose it is possible to make bone as sharp as a splinter of a rock, but it requires some very skilled sharpening and polishing. Make it thin enough to be sharp, but not thin enough to break on impact. A lot of effort compared to splitting a rock into shards.


Now, if you start working on some fancy stuff. Hooked ends, barbs, etc. But in that case, potentially? ... chitin is better. Or Rubies :P
Title: Re: Why are there no arrowheads made of bone?
Post by: Eyeball on August 15, 2019, 05:38:03 PM
Bone is a little harder. You gotta sharpen it, it can splinter. I suppose it is possible to make bone as sharp as a splinter of a rock, but it requires some very skilled sharpening and polishing. Make it thin enough to be sharp, but not thin enough to break on impact. A lot of effort compared to splitting a rock into shards.

Assuming this is true (I have no way to know since I haven't made either), there is still the saying that "necessity is the mother of invention". If shards aren't readily available without risk (ALLANAK), some people will shape them from bone pieces. It can be done, as this article indicates:

https://phys.org/news/2018-09-technology-animal-bones-ancient-tools.html
Title: Re: Why are there no arrowheads made of bone?
Post by: betweenford on August 15, 2019, 11:08:34 PM
There's a few types of bone-tipped arrows in game.

FOIC
Title: Re: Why are there no arrowheads made of bone?
Post by: Dar on August 16, 2019, 08:32:20 AM
Bone is a little harder. You gotta sharpen it, it can splinter. I suppose it is possible to make bone as sharp as a splinter of a rock, but it requires some very skilled sharpening and polishing. Make it thin enough to be sharp, but not thin enough to break on impact. A lot of effort compared to splitting a rock into shards.

Assuming this is true (I have no way to know since I haven't made either), there is still the saying that "necessity is the mother of invention". If shards aren't readily available without risk (ALLANAK), some people will shape them from bone pieces. It can be done, as this article indicates:

https://phys.org/news/2018-09-technology-animal-bones-ancient-tools.html

Well. That's the thing. Allanak is literally the capital of obsidian. Shards are a lot more common in allanak then bone.
Title: Re: Why are there no arrowheads made of bone?
Post by: Rogerthat on August 16, 2019, 08:49:28 AM
Bone is a little harder. You gotta sharpen it, it can splinter. I suppose it is possible to make bone as sharp as a splinter of a rock, but it requires some very skilled sharpening and polishing. Make it thin enough to be sharp, but not thin enough to break on impact. A lot of effort compared to splitting a rock into shards.

Assuming this is true (I have no way to know since I haven't made either), there is still the saying that "necessity is the mother of invention". If shards aren't readily available without risk (ALLANAK), some people will shape them from bone pieces. It can be done, as this article indicates:

https://phys.org/news/2018-09-technology-animal-bones-ancient-tools.html

Well. That's the thing. Allanak is literally the capital of obsidian. Shards are a lot more common in allanak then bone.



Various creatures live not far from outside the gates either, which means.. Bones should be plentiful as well with the slaughterhouse, don't forget the slaughterhouse.
Title: Re: Why are there no arrowheads made of bone?
Post by: Eyeball on August 16, 2019, 02:01:57 PM
Well. That's the thing. Allanak is literally the capital of obsidian. Shards are a lot more common in allanak then bone.

Except in the shops for some reason. That's the point here. You can readily get pieces of bone in the shops, but not any shards. Shards occasionally will pop up, but not frequently and not in any significant quantity. That being the case, people would resort to making arrowheads from bone.
Title: Re: Why are there no arrowheads made of bone?
Post by: betweenford on August 17, 2019, 02:35:30 AM
Well. That's the thing. Allanak is literally the capital of obsidian. Shards are a lot more common in allanak then bone.

Except in the shops for some reason. That's the point here. You can readily get pieces of bone in the shops, but not any shards. Shards occasionally will pop up, but not frequently and not in any significant quantity. That being the case, people would resort to making arrowheads from bone.
You can salvage most items assessed as 'bone' items to recover bone shards. All those bone lengths and bone pieces in your palms that weren't shattered on purpose have been a veritable goldmine of shards.
Title: Re: Why are there no arrowheads made of bone?
Post by: Eyeball on August 17, 2019, 03:37:02 AM
Well. That's the thing. Allanak is literally the capital of obsidian. Shards are a lot more common in allanak then bone.

Except in the shops for some reason. That's the point here. You can readily get pieces of bone in the shops, but not any shards. Shards occasionally will pop up, but not frequently and not in any significant quantity. That being the case, people would resort to making arrowheads from bone.
You can salvage most items assessed as 'bone' items to recover bone shards. All those bone lengths and bone pieces in your palms that weren't shattered on purpose have been a veritable goldmine of shards.

Can those shards be made into arrowheads by crafters?
Title: Re: Why are there no arrowheads made of bone?
Post by: Inks on August 24, 2019, 12:47:15 PM
So the reason you want this is for more risk free crafts? Don't mess with the grebber economy boio.
Title: Re: Why are there no arrowheads made of bone?
Post by: kahuna on August 24, 2019, 03:03:28 PM
Well. That's the thing. Allanak is literally the capital of obsidian. Shards are a lot more common in allanak then bone.

Except in the shops for some reason. That's the point here. You can readily get pieces of bone in the shops, but not any shards. Shards occasionally will pop up, but not frequently and not in any significant quantity. That being the case, people would resort to making arrowheads from bone.
You can salvage most items assessed as 'bone' items to recover bone shards. All those bone lengths and bone pieces in your palms that weren't shattered on purpose have been a veritable goldmine of shards.

Can those shards be made into arrowheads by crafters?

"Arrowhead" crafts were removed some time ago if I remember correctly, it just seemed like an unncessary step and arrows were already a pain to craft. I remember their being an announcement about it years ago, there may still be some legacy "arrowhead" objects in game.
Title: Re: Why are there no arrowheads made of bone?
Post by: LindseyBalboa on August 24, 2019, 08:18:30 PM
really? the helpfiles are woefully out of date if that's true.
Title: Re: Why are there no arrowheads made of bone?
Post by: gotdamnmiracle on August 30, 2019, 12:40:43 PM
Blow a custom craft and, get this, make an arrow that's just a bone arrowshaft and a feather for fletching. Is it barebones and useless for nearly everything but target practice and some small game? Will it break likely after it's first or second use? Is it cheap and easy to make? Yes to all. If you want to sexy it up require a campfire and mention how it's blackened or fire-hardened or whatever. Save everyone an arrowhead item and add a stupid simple arrow to the game.

If you have a single karma you could do this on one character and permanently fix this issue. Alternatively pay someone. I've done this IG when I had no crafting ability.

Fletchery, likejust about every other crafting skill, suffers from a learning curve that only makes sense when you realize it's grown not organically, but by leaps and bounds with small tweaks in between so you'll end up with several copy and paste items, some of which without intuitive recipes and weird gaps such as the no bone arrowheads one (staff made) and then some weirdo items that stand out because of their 8-line description and usually high-end make (player made). The only real way to fix these are more pointed item calls by staff and those blessed few picking through items and adding recipes to the ones that don't have them. Honestly I'd prefer every item in game aside from some very weird natural items and those that can be easily foraged have a recipe even if that recipe is locked behind a clan that is unplayable.
Title: Re: Why are there no arrowheads made of bone?
Post by: kahuna on August 30, 2019, 03:09:39 PM
Pretty sure custom crafter is 0 karma.
Title: Re: Why are there no arrowheads made of bone?
Post by: gotdamnmiracle on August 30, 2019, 04:13:42 PM
Pretty sure custom crafter is 0 karma.

Even easier.
Title: Re: Why are there no arrowheads made of bone?
Post by: Hauwke on August 30, 2019, 06:12:27 PM
My next PC I am going to go about and fill some gaps missing in armor, gonna be sweet.

Not every custom craft needs to be diamonds studded and engraved with the most masterful of things.
Title: Re: Why are there no arrowheads made of bone?
Post by: gotdamnmiracle on August 30, 2019, 06:45:45 PM
My next PC I am going to go about and fill some gaps missing in armor, gonna be sweet.

Not every custom craft needs to be diamonds studded and engraved with the most masterful of things.

Exactly! I love this and I think you have the right of it. I think the reason we have so many of "those" crafts is a symptom of the once a month rule. I know I've been guilty of believing that, yes a month is a huge chunk of time and I better make that weapon or whatever worth it. Not only in the time investment but the rp effort investment too. Does it really take a month of OOC time to ig make a dirty blunt-bladed longsword? Probably not, but it does become believable when you add more bits and baubles.

 I imagine you get far more lore consistent crafts out of item calls by shabago than custom crafts because folks don't feel under the gun.