Armageddon MUD General Discussion Board

General => Code Discussion => Topic started by: MeTekillot on July 10, 2019, 05:58:28 AM

Title: Quit store
Post by: MeTekillot on July 10, 2019, 05:58:28 AM
An option to quit out with the added benefit that your character will be stored if you do not login within the next 24 hours of using the 'quit store' command.
Title: Re: Quit store
Post by: triste on July 10, 2019, 09:21:21 AM
An option to quit out with the added benefit that your character will be stored if you do not login within the next 24 hours of using the 'quit store' command.


.... Nah can't get behind this one.
- I think Imms and storytellers purposefully handle storage requests so that people won't abuse it (EG storing because of a bad stat roll, storing an important role suddenly, storing to avoid IG ramifications for an action best resolved IG).
- Seems like this would only enable said bad reasons for storing above. Some players who get in trouble for suiciding characters with with bad stat rolls too quickly will now have a mechanism for storing/rerolling too quickly.
- Even for people who store for "good reasons," storing is a serious thing and I can see people using this, regretting it (like me every time I store lol), and then asking for it to be undone which is a whole other headache. Fine to keep a barrier to doing this, EG requiring a request, in the end it adds a difference of only a day or two.

Still open to listening to any justification for this but I think it is a hard no go because of the first bullet point above.
Title: Re: Quit store
Post by: Riev on July 10, 2019, 09:51:21 AM
I've had characters that I stored due to boredom/frustration, that a month later I keep thinking "Yeah but how would Suradin have done it? He had so much potential".

If I was the one in control, and I just quit store and go on vacation? I'd be real angry with myself.

I can't get behind this.
Title: Re: Quit store
Post by: maxid on July 10, 2019, 11:42:01 AM
- I think Imms and storytellers purposefully handle storage requests so that people won't abuse it (EG storing because of a bad stat roll, storing an important role suddenly, storing to avoid IG ramifications for an action best resolved IG).

This would be an obvious karma hit if you just stored a sponsored role without saying anything.  You can suicide to avoid a bad stat roll still, and nothing prevents that.  Quit store is the 'oh no look what happened' suicide without the bullshit. 

- Seems like this would only enable said bad reasons for storing above. Some players who get in trouble for suiciding characters with with bad stat rolls too quickly will now have a mechanism for storing/rerolling too quickly.

This would let them decide to leave, and not leave a geared up corpse in the game world.  It would also be waaaay easier to track.

- Even for people who store for "good reasons," storing is a serious thing and I can see people using this, regretting it (like me every time I store lol), and then asking for it to be undone which is a whole other headache. Fine to keep a barrier to doing this, EG requiring a request, in the end it adds a difference of only a day or two.

It has a 24 hour cooldown timer already, per the initial idea.  But I don't think I've ever regretted storing enough to ask for a character to be unstored, so I also don't really understand this sentiment.
Title: Re: Quit store
Post by: triste on July 10, 2019, 01:00:09 PM
- I think Imms and storytellers purposefully handle storage requests so that people won't abuse it (EG storing because of a bad stat roll, storing an important role suddenly, storing to avoid IG ramifications for an action best resolved IG).

This would be an obvious karma hit if you just stored a sponsored role without saying anything.  You can suicide to avoid a bad stat roll still, and nothing prevents that.  Quit store is the 'oh no look what happened' suicide without the bullshit. 

- Seems like this would only enable said bad reasons for storing above. Some players who get in trouble for suiciding characters with with bad stat rolls too quickly will now have a mechanism for storing/rerolling too quickly.

This would let them decide to leave, and not leave a geared up corpse in the game world.  It would also be waaaay easier to track.

- Even for people who store for "good reasons," storing is a serious thing and I can see people using this, regretting it (like me every time I store lol), and then asking for it to be undone which is a whole other headache. Fine to keep a barrier to doing this, EG requiring a request, in the end it adds a difference of only a day or two.

It has a 24 hour cooldown timer already, per the initial idea.  But I don't think I've ever regretted storing enough to ask for a character to be unstored, so I also don't really understand this sentiment.

Tried to look for your arguments in favor while you refuted my points and all you suggest is "people will suicide for better stats anyway" which is a pro powergaming, anti roleplay sentiment. Sorry, that is not what this game is about, not going to fly, and I have zero sympathy for that. Here is a novel idea: if you get bad stats, roleplay it out because this is a Roleplay Intensive mud and not hack and slash. Other novel idea: submit a storage request and man up / own up that you are doing it just because of a stats. You basically just proved my point that all this would be is a feature for power gamers to abuse.
Title: Re: Quit store
Post by: Heade on July 10, 2019, 01:58:30 PM
I don't see a problem with the current storage system. I'd rather not make it easier for people to store out of frustration, as that might lead to more requests to unstore characters as well. "Quit store" is a really easy thing to type when you're frustrated in the heat of the moment. It's not too difficult to send in a storage request, and those particular requests typically get handled fairly quickly.

I think that just the act of having to type out an explanation as to why you want to store is a good way to keep people from storing out of momentary frustration that they may later regret, and this option doesn't really make it a whole lot quicker to store. I mean, you might be saving yourself what, 2 minutes? That 2 minutes isn't worth the potential downsides, in my opinion. Character storage of characters that are involved in plots creates holes in stories and is undesirable for the rest of the playerbase. We shouldn't be seeking to make it easier to do.

EDIT: Personally, I'd prefer that people seeking to stop playing a character get an ending to that character that drives story, rather than leaving a gaping hole in a plot where they just disappear forever. If a character gets stale or is not enjoyable, I'd support a request of some sort that gets said character involved in a plot that will likely end their life. That way, there is at least something left for other players to investigate or whatever. Something that creates content rather than destroying it. #RequestEnd

It would give staff a target for developing potentially lethal plots that wouldn't get people butthurt about their PC being killed by Staff plot, and might make that stale character a bit more exciting to play in the last bit of their life.
Title: Re: Quit store
Post by: Alesan on July 10, 2019, 03:06:35 PM
... If a character gets stale or is not enjoyable, I'd support a request of some sort that gets said character involved in a plot that will likely end their life. That way, there is at least something left for other players to investigate or whatever. Something that creates content rather than destroying it. #RequestEnd

It would give staff a target for developing potentially lethal plots that wouldn't get people butthurt about their PC being killed by Staff plot, and might make that stale character a bit more exciting to play in the last bit of their life.

I would not support this idea. In the event that I find a character so unappealing that I want to store it, I don't want to continue playing it. Period. I would not enjoy having to request to be pulled into some kind of plotline to drag an unappealing character out further until it dies and I can move on. I'd rather keep the system the way it is.
Title: Re: Quit store
Post by: deskoft on July 10, 2019, 03:34:12 PM
I can see too much trouble coming from this, like a player storing to not 'see' the end of a situation. I suppose they can just log off - but in general staff is better having the moderation on these.
Title: Re: Quit store
Post by: maxid on July 10, 2019, 03:56:03 PM
Tried to look for your arguments in favor while you refuted my points and all you suggest is "people will suicide for better stats anyway" which is a pro powergaming, anti roleplay sentiment. Sorry, that is not what this game is about, not going to fly, and I have zero sympathy for that. Here is a novel idea: if you get bad stats, roleplay it out because this is a Roleplay Intensive mud and not hack and slash. Other novel idea: submit a storage request and man up / own up that you are doing it just because of a stats. You basically just proved my point that all this would be is a feature for power gamers to abuse.

I think you misunderstood.  I was pointing out that your reasoning didn't make any sense, as the ability to get rid of a character quickly already exists.  I don't need an awkward lecture on roleplaying in an RPI, I play bad stat chars as much as I do good stat ones.  The feature already exists.  This allows staff to keep better track of it.  It's an accountability feature.
Title: Re: Quit store
Post by: chrisdcoulombe on July 10, 2019, 04:04:39 PM
I think I only stored once.  It didn't have anything to do with my stats.
Title: Re: Quit store
Post by: Riev on July 10, 2019, 04:26:46 PM
What about the idea that:

Storage is an OOC option
You should go through OOC means to remove your character from the game

This option is an IC command that causes an OOC action to occur.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Quit store
Post by: Heade on July 10, 2019, 04:42:20 PM
... If a character gets stale or is not enjoyable, I'd support a request of some sort that gets said character involved in a plot that will likely end their life. That way, there is at least something left for other players to investigate or whatever. Something that creates content rather than destroying it. #RequestEnd

It would give staff a target for developing potentially lethal plots that wouldn't get people butthurt about their PC being killed by Staff plot, and might make that stale character a bit more exciting to play in the last bit of their life.

I would not support this idea. In the event that I find a character so unappealing that I want to store it, I don't want to continue playing it. Period. I would not enjoy having to request to be pulled into some kind of plotline to drag an unappealing character out further until it dies and I can move on. I'd rather keep the system the way it is.

I wasn't suggesting that we get rid of storage completely. I was suggesting that we provide an alternative option to storage for players who had grown tired of a character but were interested enough in other people's enjoyment of the game to attempt to give their own character/story some closure for the others who it might affect.

If that alternate option was available, nothing would prevent you from using the existing option to store your character instead.
Title: Re: Quit store
Post by: Medena on July 10, 2019, 04:54:43 PM
I don't really understand the purpose of this.  At first glance I thought it was aimed at expediting the storage but it would not do that.  If you "store quit"  you still have to wait out the 24 hour cool down period and then wait out however long it takes for someone on staff to be able to get to it.  If you log out and put in a storage request the chances are the request will be handled in about the same amount of time as that and, in some cases, a good deal less.

If the purpose is to circumvent the request process, I don't really get that either.  It doesn't take much effort to put in a request and, in my experience, staff do not question your reasons for storing.  I am the queen of storing (11 of 18 PCs have been stored***) and have never had a problem.  Naturally, if it is a sponsored role or some other kind of special role that staff have in some way invested in then you have a duty to see that plots, projects, etc are wound up or at least reported on.

*** In case this sounds like I toss PCs aside on a whim, my characters are usually played for a long time, between 6 months to 2 years of RL time.
Title: Re: Quit store
Post by: Alesan on July 10, 2019, 05:36:45 PM
... If a character gets stale or is not enjoyable, I'd support a request of some sort that gets said character involved in a plot that will likely end their life. That way, there is at least something left for other players to investigate or whatever. Something that creates content rather than destroying it. #RequestEnd

It would give staff a target for developing potentially lethal plots that wouldn't get people butthurt about their PC being killed by Staff plot, and might make that stale character a bit more exciting to play in the last bit of their life.

I would not support this idea. In the event that I find a character so unappealing that I want to store it, I don't want to continue playing it. Period. I would not enjoy having to request to be pulled into some kind of plotline to drag an unappealing character out further until it dies and I can move on. I'd rather keep the system the way it is.

I wasn't suggesting that we get rid of storage completely. I was suggesting that we provide an alternative option to storage for players who had grown tired of a character but were interested enough in other people's enjoyment of the game to attempt to give their own character/story some closure for the others who it might affect.

If that alternate option was available, nothing would prevent you from using the existing option to store your character instead.

I guess I missed that part, my bad.
Title: Re: Quit store
Post by: cnemus on July 10, 2019, 06:08:14 PM
I don't support: Quit storage (for pretty much the same reasons as already stated)

I was under the impression if someone requested a staff-assisted, plot-driven death (and circumstances support that) it would be considered under the current storage mechanic. No change needed.

If something about a character isn't fun [anymore], I try to ask what I can do to make it fun [again] and for me that usually means more risk and conflict, which themselves tend to lead towards resolution of the issue one way or :mantishead:
Title: Re: Quit store
Post by: chrisdcoulombe on July 10, 2019, 06:46:54 PM
I'm indifferent.  There are plenty of quick ways to get yourself killed without suicide.  I just decided I want to become a mekillot biologist.  I am really curious about their mating habits and what their dens look like.   My current employer doesn't like the idea, but I can't think about anything else.

Don't like something the Templarate did?  Go ahead and voice your opinion to them.  I'm sure nothing bad will happen.

I've never been outdoors before, but I want to head out west like a cowboy.

Now the point of doing these things is not to die, but to make your character eccentrically flawed.  You might even survive and start liking your character again.   

Maybe the Templar spares you, but holds it over your head, maybe you learn something you didn't know about Mekillot's, or a spider befriends you....the possibilities are endless.  More likely you're gonna see the Mantis head, but one can dream.
Title: Re: Quit store
Post by: mansa on July 10, 2019, 07:32:38 PM
An option to quit out with the added benefit that your character will be stored if you do not login within the next 24 hours of using the 'quit store' command.

What's the problem we're trying to solve here?

The length of time between submitting a request and having that request fulfilled?
Title: Re: Quit store
Post by: Cabooze on July 10, 2019, 09:03:20 PM
An option to quit out with the added benefit that your character will be stored if you do not login within the next 24 hours of using the 'quit store' command.

What's the problem we're trying to solve here?

The length of time between submitting a request and having that request fulfilled?

The best way to self store is to walk outside of Nak's gates and queue south 30+ times.
Title: Re: Quit store
Post by: Nameless Face on July 10, 2019, 09:06:46 PM
An option to quit out with the added benefit that your character will be stored if you do not login within the next 24 hours of using the 'quit store' command.

What's the problem we're trying to solve here?

The length of time between submitting a request and having that request fulfilled?

My guess would be the problems attempting to be solved are:

I don't have a scrab on this dune, though.
Title: Re: Quit store
Post by: MeTekillot on July 10, 2019, 09:07:47 PM
The idea is for convenience's sake.
Title: Re: Quit store
Post by: maxid on July 10, 2019, 10:03:26 PM
An option to quit out with the added benefit that your character will be stored if you do not login within the next 24 hours of using the 'quit store' command.

What's the problem we're trying to solve here?

The length of time between submitting a request and having that request fulfilled?

My guess would be the problems attempting to be solved are:
  • Required mandatory staff interaction to store a character
  • Reducing suicide as a solution to switch PCs
  • Sometimes a week or more delay before storage is completed

I don't have a scrab on this dune, though.

These are the benefits I see.  There's no reason staff has to get involved if you're ready to store a character, so long as you aren't important/sponsored.  It's a waste of time and it encourages powergaming/bad play by encouraging suicide to get it done quicker.
Title: Re: Quit store
Post by: LindseyBalboa on July 11, 2019, 12:22:03 PM
Iím a believer in trusting players not to be shady, but allowing people the option to store themselves isnít something Iíve seen in RPI MUDs/non consent MUSHes/etc for the sole fact that it has the incredible opportunity to be used negatively for role play and doesnít offer any real positives to the player base that outweigh the negative uses. Itíd be convenient for me to have the option to quit despite a combat timer, any time I wanted to, but thereís already another way to do this thatís staff moderated (quit ooc) and letting me quit whenever I want opens up a really easy avenue of abuse without addressing any actual problem. Same idea here.
Title: Re: Quit store
Post by: mansa on July 11, 2019, 08:18:47 PM
It seems it would prevent communication to the storytellers of the ongoing plots that you had, and any other reasons why you've lost interest in the role.

Like a negative communication aspect to it.
Title: Re: Quit store
Post by: Katima on July 11, 2019, 08:25:40 PM
Not something I'll ever be in support of. It takes away communication between staff and players, and choosing to take a character that could have plot attachments should be something you have to go through with staff, especially in leader or sponsored roles with high impact.

The current process takes no time if you weren't trying to be a douchenozzle and ditch out on plots you stirred up or participated in. And if you were trying to be a douchenozzle and get out of something by storage, you deserve to be held accountable for that.

Lots of players also change their minds about a storage while the request is being processed. Having this in place would result in a lot of unwanted storages because someone decided to log on over-emotional and dump their PC cause they're stressed/high/drunk. Currently you have a bit of time to sober up and figure out you were being an idiot.

Not for it, never will be for it. I like how things work now.
Title: Re: Quit store
Post by: Strongheart on July 11, 2019, 10:00:30 PM
Less abrasive language please, Katima.
Title: Re: Quit store
Post by: RogueGunslinger on July 12, 2019, 02:09:06 AM
lol
Title: Re: Quit store
Post by: Dar on July 12, 2019, 08:03:02 AM
Douchenozzle. I love that.


I'm also against instant storage. The temptation to slam the door shut and get an instant gratification in form of release of stress from the pressure of roleplayed out opposition is too high. This feature will cause more trouble then it solves.


So dont be a douchenozzle and store properly. By killing someone in the middle of the tavern with a knife.
Title: Re: Quit store
Post by: Aruven on July 12, 2019, 09:39:28 PM
Hmm. I've never had to wait long on a storage request, though I don't think I've ever actually made the request "some sort of death scene or something." It was usually after a burned rope from things and I just explained the IC character reason for a storage and offered to log in for a scene if it was needed and it went through.

I was reading through this and thinking the idea might be alright if it was set for a longer timeline, though I've been ultimately swayed by the need to communicate with staff, if the communication exists.

I've also only stored 3-4 characters in like 15 years so i'm not the most qualified.
Title: Re: Quit store
Post by: ShaLeah on July 15, 2019, 11:19:37 AM
People tend to react with violent emotion sometimes then regret their actions. We're human.  Having a movie or days to think about it after the request can lead to change of heart.

I'm a NAY.
Title: Re: Quit store
Post by: valeria on July 15, 2019, 04:38:32 PM
I don't think this is a terrible idea. I just also don't see the point, when most storage requests are handled pretty speedily these days.

I'm not really on board with having to justify why I'm not having fun in a role anymore, since this is a game and if you're not having fun, you just aren't, but it isn't like you need to provide some kind explanation now, either. At least in my experience.
Title: Re: Quit store
Post by: Heade on July 16, 2019, 02:04:07 PM
I don't think this is a terrible idea. I just also don't see the point, when most storage requests are handled pretty speedily these days.

I'm not really on board with having to justify why I'm not having fun in a role anymore, since this is a game and if you're not having fun, you just aren't, but it isn't like you need to provide some kind explanation now, either. At least in my experience.

Yeah, not having fun with a character is enough, from what I understand. This communication just let's staff know what's happening, which I think is a good thing.