Once upon a time when we had full magicker guilds many of the mundane combat sub-guilds were truly worth 2 karma. However after the new classes came out and magickers became sub-guilds, these classes have lost their luster, in particular one's like protector.
Even when you look at outdoorsman, a full whiran could do wonders with it. However now with classes almost every class has a ranged weapon, as nice as archery is, crossbows can get the job done too. The skin and stealth are nice, but you can save your karma and pick one or the other with hunter/outlaw.
Same with the combat sub-guilds, not saying advance disarm isn't nice, however with city classes it competes with any class with direction sense, and with wilderness classes you get so much out of any of the city sub-guilds too. If it were one karma it would still be a hard sell but at least more tempting. Instead of two karma you could go gladiator, while journeyman disarm isn't great, it is still useful and all the heavy combat classes will beat you at disarm eventually, so why not a little sooner rather than later and save 2 karma.
You are already giving up a lot of utility(for less karma) by picking a combat sub-guild thus I am not sure the 2 karma price tag is still warranted.
This is my thought, as well.
Tbh, esg should be 1k across the board. I feel as if wastelander in particular, should not require karma at all, given it's limited skillset.
Wilderness quit has it's ic value, but for me its the peace of mind of knowing, I can log in a hurry when I have to, which tends to be often. It's a convenience that, should anyone wish to have in place of a real sub, should be available. It's definitely not as valuable, as custom crafter, and that's free (and should stay free!).
Quote from: Vex on April 16, 2019, 12:51:51 AM
This is my thought, as well.
Tbh, esg should be 1k across the board. I feel as if wastelander in particular, should not require karma at all, given it's limited skillset.
Wilderness quit has it's ic value, but for me its the peace of mind of knowing, I can log in a hurry when I have to, which tends to be often. It's a convenience that, should anyone wish to have in place of a real sub, should be available. It's definitely not as valuable, as custom crafter, and that's free (and should stay free!).
I agree with this, 1005
I have been saying 2 karma mundane ESGs were overpriced for a year now, so I agree on that point. I don't know that I agree that they were EVER worth 2 karma.
I think making all ESGs 1 karma across the board is fine. I believe it was Brokkr that mentioned "power level" concerning ESGs when comparing combat ESGs to non-combat ESGs, and that's why it was decided that ESGs with combat skills would be 2 karma. I've never bought into that. There are a lot of types of power in Arm, and I don't think ESGs that include a combat component are inherently more powerful than those that don't. It's just a different KIND of power. And that's not to mention the differences between the different combat abilities themselves.
2 Karma is stupidly expensive for any mundane ESG.
I don't like that karma = superior character and miss the days where karma = more trust. I'm on board with anything that moves things in that direction.
Not saying disarm or bash isn't great but it isn't any better as the utility you get from anyone of the 1 karma level city guild. Again the exception being if you played a full mage. While some of the skills could be toned done or removed it is still basically a buff gladitor.
Quote from: John on April 16, 2019, 09:56:42 AM
I don't like that karma = superior character and miss the days where karma = more trust. I'm on board with anything that moves things in that direction.
I agree. Karma options should be based on their difficulty to roleplay.
Quote from: azuriolinist on April 17, 2019, 02:34:17 AM
Quote from: John on April 16, 2019, 09:56:42 AM
I don't like that karma = superior character and miss the days where karma = more trust. I'm on board with anything that moves things in that direction.
I agree. Karma options should be based on their difficulty to roleplay.
That line of reasoning falters when you realize there's nothing difficult to roleplay about a Sorcerer.
ESC should all be 1 karma max in my viewpoint, and a few of them shouldn't be ESC at all.
It is my hope that magic classes are 1-3 karma because of a trend I've seen over the years. That trend being that the height of role play for many people is to bully. Magic users tend to be massively proficient bullies. And sorcerers can be the ultimate bullies.
Please keep in mind this is not an attempt at judgment or an invitation to debate on such unless someone wants to pop off a new thread.
Agreed. I'd like it if ESGs were no-karma, personally. I'd always hoped it would shift that way, but it hasn't. Luckilly I can get along just fine without an ESG, especially with the versatility of the new class system. I get why muls, magickers and the like require karma. Unsure why desert elves do, sort of limits your options with esgs if you play them, unless you're just, the best roleplayer ever.
My biggest thing is that, unlike gladiator for the weapon/offence ESGs, there's no regular subguild with anything similar to what protector offers. I think that would be one of the things I would use most often, if given the option.