Armageddon MUD General Discussion Board

New Player Forum => New Player Questions => Topic started by: Fernandezj on January 13, 2018, 04:23:46 PM

Title: Importance of Base Stats?
Post by: Fernandezj on January 13, 2018, 04:23:46 PM
How important are base stats? Is there a dramatic difference between a player with good and very good strength? Or is it only very pronounced early on?
Title: Re: Importance of Base Stats?
Post by: zealus on January 13, 2018, 04:26:37 PM
Depends heavily on the character I'd say. On a warrior, sure, stats can help. Skills help more.
On a noble? Meh to stats, as long as you don't pass out constantly if you contact aide tressymctressface
Title: Re: Importance of Base Stats?
Post by: Riev on January 13, 2018, 10:46:33 PM
Stats matter the most at the very beginning, and the very very end, and only in combat situations (with a few exceptions).

When you start off with super high strength? Maybe you can kill particular beasts easier than those without the high strength. At a certain point, skills mitigate stat levels, until you're at the other end of the spectrum. If you're hypothetically at master-level in all visible and non-visible skills, stats will play an important factor again.

Long story short? They do matter but not as often as you think.
Title: Re: Importance of Base Stats?
Post by: Hauwke on January 13, 2018, 11:18:07 PM
The difference between high and low strength for example, is what armor you can wear and how much stuff you can carry, and thats about it for not purely combat. As for combat, its the difference between solid strikes and wounding strikes when you first start the character, after that point it pretty much evens out for awhile until you get to a level where stuff straight up cant kill you anymore, then it becomes important against other people like that.

Agility is way more important than people think outside of combat. Being able to hold a dozen items in your inventory is amazing when you know what it feels like to be able to fit three items in your inventory for example and thats completely seperate from combat.

Personally, I wince at the prospect of rolling poor strength on a breed or elf, but its not entirely a waste of a character since sometimes, the fun of playing a character is the struggle.
Title: Re: Importance of Base Stats?
Post by: Is Friday on January 14, 2018, 04:59:00 PM
One of the things to keep in mind about stats is that as long as you don't have a bunch of POOR stats then it's playable in my opinion. Can you play the most badass of badasses with average stats? Not really. Can you play a grizzled, war-battered, experienced soldier after a while? Absolutely. You're just not going to be a super hero. All of my great statted PCs were boring in comparison to my good/slightly average statted PCs. I think the good balance is having a couple good stats and then some average ones.
Title: Re: Importance of Base Stats?
Post by: Molten Heart on January 21, 2018, 06:29:36 PM
Good stats really help getting over the survival hump at the beginning. They can really make and break a combat character early on because of how much of a benefit they can be but after that it may not really matter unless you plan on being some kind of hotshot.
Title: Re: Importance of Base Stats?
Post by: Fernandezj on January 21, 2018, 08:01:01 PM
I wish they'd let you roll or see stats prior to making a description and background... because having a smart/weak character, all-around average, or strong-dumbass would go a long way in forming a desciption/background.

I could only imagine writing a character described as covered in rippling muscle and then he be abysmally weak with no endurance or something.
Title: Re: Importance of Base Stats?
Post by: Hauwke on January 21, 2018, 08:15:05 PM
That can happen, but really only if you prioritize your stats badly. Prioritizing strength, I have to my recollection, never gotten a terrible strength role, outside of very young characters obviously.
Title: Re: Importance of Base Stats?
Post by: Delicious_Marinade on February 24, 2018, 08:01:49 AM
I once played a Warrior that had a pretty abysmal stat roll, the best stat being a very good in endurance. However, because of the really low strength stat, they had an easier time improving weapon skills because they plateau much later and therefore I was able to very quickly get advanced weapon skills and still kicked ass.

Long story short, just stop caring about stats, if your character has low stats, they'll have to work a lot harder, but everyone likes to see an underdog succeed, and in the end, once your character has a couple of days of play time under their belt, having high stats will only truly matter if you are planning to kill other PCs, or if you genuinely care about winning spars.
Title: Re: Importance of Base Stats?
Post by: Krath on February 24, 2018, 09:49:44 AM
One of the things to keep in mind about stats is that as long as you don't have a bunch of POOR stats then it's playable in my opinion. Can you play the most badass of badasses with average stats? Not really. Can you play a grizzled, war-battered, experienced soldier after a while? Absolutely. You're just not going to be a super hero. All of my great statted PCs were boring in comparison to my good/slightly average statted PCs. I think the good balance is having a couple good stats and then some average ones.

This is the absolute truth.
Title: Re: Importance of Base Stats?
Post by: Miradus on February 24, 2018, 02:54:59 PM

Playable is playable entirely considering what you, the player, want to do. Run around and cause mayhem? You can do that with any stats. Stir up trouble and die gloriously? Any stats.

Be actually good at combat? Better have good stats.

It's ridiculous to pretend otherwise when you can see how dwarves and half-giants completely dominate the game where any level of combat is required.
Title: Re: Importance of Base Stats?
Post by: Wday on February 24, 2018, 04:38:30 PM
Depending on race, some races you have average states you can't carry anything or wear anything. Not saying that isn't able to be played just really hard and makes the fun less sometimes if the role is calling for strength to a point
Title: Re: Importance of Base Stats?
Post by: chrisdcoulombe on February 24, 2018, 10:06:54 PM
I don't care about stats unless the stats don't match the description of the character.  If you describe Arnold and roll poor strength it can be pretty jarring.  That being said, its rare that that happens. With stat priority its unlikely you describe someone as lumbering and get ai agility, or as frail and get huge strength.

I usually describe pretty average looking people to avoid this though.
Title: Re: Importance of Base Stats?
Post by: perfecto on February 25, 2018, 05:46:51 AM
I don't care about stats unless the stats don't match the description of the character.  If you describe Arnold and roll poor strength it can be pretty jarring.  That being said, its rare that that happens. With stat priority its unlikely you describe someone as lumbering and get ai agility, or as frail and get huge strength.

When this does happen on the -off- chance, I tend to skew my character to reflect this very noticeable sway in "Actions vs Portrayal"

If you made the Huge Lumbering Beefcake and rolled poor strength I would shift my focus from "taking over the world" to "the big guy who gets picked on by small children" Sometimes altering where your character is headed right out of the gate can insight hilarity.

Same with the opposite, if you make the Scraggly Bone-Thin Waif and roll AI strength... well... you gotta pull some PoPeye shenanigans and "find your strength" everytime you bite into a Ginka fruit, you can knock out a Mek!
Title: Re: Importance of Base Stats?
Post by: tapas on March 21, 2018, 01:29:49 AM
They matter more than they should.

Strength in particular is the kingmaker in combat.
Title: Re: Importance of Base Stats?
Post by: Grapes on March 21, 2018, 03:36:02 AM
Codedly they matter WAY more than they should, but.. I don't like resorting to code regardless of stat roll.
Title: Re: Importance of Base Stats?
Post by: Veselka on March 21, 2018, 10:47:18 AM
They matter more than they should.

Strength in particular is the kingmaker in combat.

It's a MUD. Not a MUSH. Of course stats matter.
Title: Re: Importance of Base Stats?
Post by: najdorf on March 21, 2018, 12:56:35 PM
Unlike what others may think, it matters less on combat-oriented classes. Because it balances out fairly easily due to faster improvement rate of the lower-statted characters.
Also it doesn't matter much in the end. I have seen super warriors getting OTK'ed by various PC/NPCs. It wouldn't matter if they had AI strength instead of good, etc.

However, on stealth based characters it matters slightly more. And gladly the stat prioritization is there to prevent any disadvantages. Just roll agility (or whatever you want) top, and you will 99% get a decent stat between good -- exceptional, which will not hinder your ability to perform the key abilities.
Title: Re: Importance of Base Stats?
Post by: tapas on March 22, 2018, 03:21:01 AM
I think strength should have less of an impact. But that's just me.

The other stats do have an impact. But in straight up combat, high strength is a direct counter to low strength. High strength players can wear armors that low strength players will have difficulty penetrating, and will have a flat reduction in damage if they do. High strength players will obviously hit harder than lower strength characters.

I once played a kuraci assassin elf with poor strength. I was pretty brutal, and I needed to beg staff to readjust my values to make it worthwhile.
Title: Re: Importance of Base Stats?
Post by: Lizzie on March 22, 2018, 06:38:59 AM
There's different levels of each stat. It's not just a high vs. low thing, there's nuances inbetween. Having useful stats, is useful. Poor is only useful if you want to intentionally suck at things. Some folks like the challenge. I wouldn't, but hey it's a twist on the rp.

Average should be considered - average. Sadly, players often confuse average with "I can't play with this because it's not good." If I were playing a mage, I'd want my wisdom to be better than average, but I wouldn't whine if it wasn't AI. As a warrior or combat-heavy character, "above average" strength would probably be the least I'd want to play. Perfectly serviceable, just not impressive. And hey, if I had really good dexterity, I'd be faster than someone who didn't. So I might not hit hard, but I'd hit faster, thus moving the challenge closer to equal. Afterall - if it takes you 3 seconds to give me a single 20-hp hit, and takes me the same 3 seconds to give you two 10-hp hits, the end result is the same.

Stats count. Absolutely. They wouldn't be coded into the game if they didn't count for something. And the lowest stat is absolutely going to hurt, when you rely on stats to be functional in a skill that uses that stat. But if you rely on being amazingly awesome at one or two single skills to be a "viable" character, then I'd suggest you broaden your expectations a bit.

Maybe you're just "competent" with a sword and have a tough time wearing the heavy armor because of lousy agility, but you can kick ass unarmed and bash like a champ because of high strength. (No I don't know which stats have the most affect on which skills, this is hypothetical. Insert whichever appropriate stats and skills are involved and repeat the sentence with the new interpretation. Point stands).

If you have below average on ALL your stats, well you do get a reroll out of chargen. If they're still below average you can send a request to staff and ask if they might give you a hand up so the grind is less of a challenge. An "all average" character is 100% viable. Not optimal, but viable.
Title: Re: Importance of Base Stats?
Post by: sprucebark on March 23, 2018, 12:20:24 AM
I rarely prioritize any stat. I would do it only to match a description or need for the character to make sense. Pick an age based on character need. You want to survive? Pick 25 to 30. You want to 3lit3 pix the p0ck3ts? 10 year old elf. Just expect to graze them to death. In other words, you suffer through your choices. Your character suffers through Zalanthas. So you both suffer. Sounds like Armageddon.
Title: Re: Importance of Base Stats?
Post by: RogueGunslinger on April 17, 2018, 10:26:32 PM
Some of them matter too much, imo. It always hurts when I see a low Strength stat on a combat character, or I end up with low hp on any character.  I often prioritize certain aspects in character creation just to get better stats, which I think is kind of the opposite of how it should be.

There's too wide a range of power even from Average strength to Very Good strength.

Title: Re: Importance of Base Stats?
Post by: Bogre on May 07, 2018, 11:00:01 AM
I've had some fantastic rolls on characters with awesome backgrounds, and I've had some terrible rolls on similar.

The ones who roll good are generally much easier to keep alive. I honestly tend to prioritize endurance a lot, because I love HP and I tend to play -much- more cautiously if I have a poor endurance roll. If I want combat at all, I'll usually try to have strength be decent too.

Title: Re: Importance of Base Stats?
Post by: Jihelu on May 07, 2018, 02:12:42 PM
Hitpoints is a crutch that isn't required.
Wisdom is for fucking nerds.
Agility is the god stat and you can't convince me otherwise.
This is followed by strength.
Title: Re: Importance of Base Stats?
Post by: Cind on May 08, 2018, 02:22:31 AM
As someone who rarely if ever fights and works with their mind or hands, I prioritize wisdom, and then agility if I'm going to be a cleaner, crafter etc. because holding a lot of items at once can be useful for those types. Sometimes I forget to prioritize, or to include agility in my prioritization. Endurance helps if I have to be out-of-doors inside a city for prolonged periods and its hot but usually it doesn't factor in, and when you're a crafter or a servant or an aide, water use doesn't really matter, especially if you belong to a House. Strength is helpful for carrying bags of rock or kegs, but unless I'm a miner I don't really need it.

On my few fighters, some with high strength and some without, none of which were trained enough to make a difference, the higher strength dudes kicked a little more butt. Endurance seemed to make a difference when I was hit on different characters by the same animal, but animals also have stats, and can be weak or strong.

If you're playing a mage who won't be fighting its probably wisdom and then endurance, because like in the helpfile, your mana regenerates faster with higher wisdom, and endurance -probably- gives you more total mana. At least, it seemed like it did.

Like one poster said a long time ago, aides who aren't interested in assassination and spying might want high endurance and to be warriors because they will be waying all the time and a few more stun points can help.
Title: Re: Importance of Base Stats?
Post by: Grapes on May 08, 2018, 10:01:50 AM
No need to structure your guild/stat priorities around waying. Sitting down increases stun regen, and resting increases it even more. Comfy furniture may or may not help. Wisdom is useful for perception skills and bartering, so don't forget that.

If I was going with a combat aide type character I'd definitely consider ranger over warrior, as well as assassin (though assassins aren't as useful for perception skills, oddly), burgler, or pickpocket. The downside to pickpocket is learning to hide. Burglar doesn't get scan. Merchants get a grab-bag of useful skills for the job, and can be further modified with the right subguild choice. Merchants are also much less of a grind to become useful than other classes.

If using perception/crafting/casting/grinding/bartering skills more often, wisdom is great. If crafting/stealth/stealing/might get in a fight/carrying lots of small items, agility. If need to carry lots of moderate-weight items/wear armor/want to win a fight/want to do more damage with backstab then strength. If you want more stun/faster regen/more hp/more effective use of armor (unknown if this helps or how much)/walking sneaking or running on foot outside then endurance is your pal.

All the stats are important in ways, all can be done without provided a balance at another end of the scale (for example, you can make a powerful warrior with crappy endurance and wisdom if your strength/agility are high enough to compensate), and all can be done without for the purposes of simply playing a character. If you want to maximize your "winning" potential in specific areas, then yeah, you need the stats, but nothing says you can't play a mediocre character, or even a straight up loser in all areas, and still get some fun and excitement out of the game itself. Making mistakes, failure, can be rewarding in the long term in unforseen ways.