Armageddon MUD General Discussion Board

General => World Discussion => Topic started by: ghanima on October 21, 2017, 04:38:15 AM

Title: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: ghanima on October 21, 2017, 04:38:15 AM
Is it time to revisit the topic of Tuluk yet? Should it remain in its present form? Is there something more that can be done with it, either by reopening the city or running it as an enemy NPC? What are your thoughts? Below are mine.

I think the concept of Tuluk got worked and reworked into oblivion and that didn't help. Different people over different periods of time had their own vision for Tuluk and often those visions clashed, resulting in what is an at times contradicting concept. But I also think Tuluk still has potential.

Despite the cries of many, I actually believe in the idea of player consolidation. I think there does come a point at which the population is spread too thin and that it does have an impact on the game. However, I still think Tuluk could work in such a way that large scale population thinning does not occur. On that note, I've always wondered why Morin's and other areas in the north are developed if Tuluk was a problem in this regard.

I also think Tuluk deserves a more clear cut IC explanation of what the heck is going on in there, even if we all know it was done purely for OOC purposes. So it's shut its doors to the outside world. Ok. A vast civilization still can't completely wall themselves out, especially since much of the resources they need come from outside those walls. Instead, there would be virtual populations visible to a lone rider in the distance. I've always felt Tuluk could be given proper representation through occasional animations. Imagine your lone rider is one room south of the North Road. He's skinning a goudra and watching north, in case anyone else rides past who might be friend or foe. Suddenly a veritable army of 12 NPC soldiers led by a single NPC templar march past. I think I'd poop my pants if I saw that, wondering what it was all about! Maybe it's a simple changing of the guard at an outlying fortress, or maybe there's a battle prepared. There's not a single PC in the game who would casually shrug something like that off.

One thing is without a doubt 100% certain. If it reopened tomorrow (in whatever form) the player population would jump up. At least for a period of time.

And before the naysayers erupt with fury, understand I'm not saying "do this". I'm saying let's discuss this. In my opinion, anything is better than just letting it sit there with what seems to be an extremely vague IC explanation as to its current form. I'm not badmouthing the decisions that were made, I'm saying let's revisit those decisions and see if it's time for a new one.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: BadSkeelz on October 21, 2017, 05:20:58 AM
Just blow it up instead of leaving it in the half-assed limbo it's been in for the last couple years. Tuluk basically got stored, and we all know it's easier to roleplay around a corpse than a stored PC.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: ghanima on October 21, 2017, 05:37:42 AM
it's easier to roleplay around a corpse than a stored PC.

Nice analogy. And I'm inclined to agree.

Blowing it up without a trace would just feel OOC and blowing it up with a trace would just be a repeat of the past. But whatever is to be done, I still think something should be done.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: nauta on October 21, 2017, 08:56:27 AM
So this suggestion might fall flat on its face, but its a combination of three insights:

1. Player consolidation (at least city-based player consolidation) is probably a good thing.

2. The northlands (Gol Krathu) is such a beautiful and dynamic terrain --- from the rugged red deserts in the south, to the tablelands in the west, to the scrub and forests in the north and the grasslands in the east.  Not only is there a lot of diverse geographical regions, but the actual game-grid, so to speak, is dynamic: while in the Vrun 90% of the rooms you will encounter are omnidirectional (North, East, South, West, e.g., the salt flats, the deserts around Allanak), in Gol Krathu a lot of the game squares are not -- you have twisty turns, climb spots, holes and caves, ridges, cliffs, and so on.  It's just a lot of fun to play up there, whether it be an iso hunter, or a raider, or someone trying to escape a raider.

3. Allanak has a much more robust (if spartan) culture and history to it than Tuluk.

So the suggestion: One day, Tek gets bored and Muk retires, and Tek is like: let's fucking move this city, my citizens.  Poof!  Just like a volcano, Allanak itself lands on top of Tuluk, eliminating it entirely, and replacing it with Allanak!

Ok, so that's a bit silly.  But perhaps Allanak could slowly move into Tuluk (some calamity happened up north, the city was abandoned) --- merchant houses set up shop, noble houses (from the south) set up shop, and so on.  A kind of Allanak version 2.0.  And then, all of the sudden, something terrible happens to Allanak 1.0, and everyone is stuck up in Tuluk aka Allanak 2.0, a barebones simulacrum of the original Allanak.

Or, I guess, just close Allanak to play and open Tuluk -- I'm one of those who didn't find it /that/ weird of a place in terms of docs.  The only problem I had with it was that it was pretty sparsely populated by PCs.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Fredd on October 21, 2017, 10:00:51 AM
So this suggestion might fall flat on its face, but its a combination of three insights:

3. Allanak has a much more robust (if spartan) culture and history to it than Tuluk.

Completely disagree. As someone that has played right hand noble aides in both cities and learned a lot of history. I loved Tuluks flavor, culture and history more then i ever liked Nak's.
They had different feels.

Putting Nak where tuluk is not a good idea. The reason they chose Nak over the north, was danger, and scarcity of supplies. You HAVE to ride north for wood, hides, and other supples.
You have to ride south for....Spice?

No if they were gonna close one city, they chose wisely. But they did it wrong. Shoulda been a war, and they could leave the ruins of a city there filled with raiders and shit. It could be like a wildlands Labrinth
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: evilcabbage on October 21, 2017, 10:30:24 AM
obsidian is only in the south. mek hide, spider fangs, jakhals i think are only in the south.

all silt beasts are only in the south.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Pale Horse on October 21, 2017, 10:45:40 AM
obsidian is only in the south.

Was only in the south.  Tek dun goofed when he dropped a large producer of one of the South's only resources right next to his enemy/competitor.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Fredd on October 21, 2017, 10:48:06 AM
obsidian is only in the south. mek hide, spider fangs, jakhals i think are only in the south.

all silt beasts are only in the south.
I was being facetious.  But I have a point, and you know it :)
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: ShaLeah on October 21, 2017, 11:40:55 AM
 Tuluk was way more interesting when it was under Allanak rule. When rebels plotted and you didn't know who was who.  When under Tuluk was a necessity.

There is a reason characters in Tuluk lasted a long ass time. 

I don't mind it being open,  as a player I hated what Tuluk became but always appreciated it's beauty.  I don't think it makes ANY sense at all whatsoever that Tek would let that land go so easily after the war. No reason he hasn't gone back for it.

I liked the conflict.  Bring it back ya'll.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Delirium on October 21, 2017, 11:44:30 AM
Just blow it up instead of leaving it in the half-assed limbo it's been in for the last couple years. Tuluk basically got stored, and we all know it's easier to roleplay around a corpse than a stored PC.

Perfect analogy. It's very awkward as currently stands.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: LucildaHunta on October 21, 2017, 12:02:23 PM
I think Tuluk had two big problems when it was open for play. First it had a really big perception problem and the second it had some serious design issues. I think it is still workable as a playable city though.

The perception problem always came down to Allanak is a hardcore gritty setting and Tuluk is this flowery, conflict free place. There's always been a perception that if you want to roleplay, have flowery emotes, frolic through the grasslands holding hands with nobles you play in Tuluk. If you want the "real" Armageddon experience you play in Allanak, Tuluk was viewed as Armageddon lite. While this was never true, that's pretty much always been the vibe you get from other players. The best thing about Tuluk was it was a place to get away from players that you might not want to be around, it was good alternative. Darksun had seven cities all of them had a completely different atmosphere. Tuluk had a much more fleshed out culture to me, but that led to the second problem.

As much as I enjoyed playing in Tuluk, I always had a hard time visualizing it. I think that was players' biggest problem with it, it was hard to understand the concept of the city itself. Was it a wooden city? Treehouses? For some reason I always imagined the Warrens like brownstones. I just never had a clear image of what Tuluk looked like, what it felt like. While Allanak borrows heavily from Darksun's Tyr, its very easy to visualize. If you asked several players to draw Allanak, you probably get similar drawings. I think if you asked players to draw Tuluk, you get wildly different pictures. I'm not quite sure which city-state Tuluk borrows from. Draj maybe? It just seems to have influences of all of the city-states and it just didn't come together well.  I just never had a clear image of Tuluk.

Still, I think a lot can be done with it. I'm still not sure what happened there even though I had a character that was right there when it closed down. It definitely could become the NPC enemy state sort of like the gith, the game's perpetual bad guy state. It could also be redone and opened for play. But this time choose another city state, Gulg maybe? Do I hear a Sorcerer-Queen? Whatever staff decides to do with it, start it off as an NPC city state then gradually open it up to players as a second city until it's playable again.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: ghanima on October 21, 2017, 12:11:27 PM
Yeah the occupation was without a doubt the best time period for the MUD, hands down.

The trouble with retaking Tuluk is you don't want it to be a complete copy/paste of the past or it'll feel really cheap. Also just because it worked back then doesn't mean it'll work now. That doesn't mean I wouldn't enjoy a variation of the good old days, I'm just skeptical if it'll play out in a believable way rather than a Game of Thrones Season 7 sort of way :P

Whatever the case I think some sort of resolution is long overdue.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Grapes on October 21, 2017, 03:57:23 PM
Given I don't know what's going on behind the scenes and all, I, myself, wouldn't push too hard for a resolution, for all I know something big is in the works. That said I am deeply curious, I'd figure sooner or later some rumors would, find their way out of the city.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: gotdamnmiracle on October 21, 2017, 05:16:38 PM
I don't care. I never got to play in Tuluk so I have no nostalgic attachment to it. Honestly, I think the second Tuluk get's popped open is the second we'll move on to something else to moan on about.

It still has soldiers patrolling. It still has fortresses standing. It still feels alive, if on life support. Right now all it is is flavor and I'm cool with that, I guess.

I think people should worry about making their own cool stories WITHOUT staff. If staff toss you a cool emote, neat. If staff reopen Tuluk, even better. Right now though, I've seen and heard nothing that will lend itself to suggesting that they have any plans to do that, open any of the other elf tribes, or bring back the other elements. Why waste breath?
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: manipura on October 21, 2017, 07:32:47 PM
Just blow it up instead of leaving it in the half-assed limbo it's been in for the last couple years. Tuluk basically got stored, and we all know it's easier to roleplay around a corpse than a stored PC.

This.  A hundred times, this.
It feels very awkward having this enemy state to the north that is -there-...but in a sense feels like it may as well not be, because it isn't accomplishing anything.  Even though the city is still there and there are soldiers and a fortress and whatnot, nothing about it feels alive.  Certainly not alive in any way that is providing meaningful conflict, which is sort of the point of an enemy-state.
 
I quite liked Tuluk, despite all the issues it had.  I'm not sure what would have been the best way to fix it, but 'storing it' (as BS described it) didn't seem to accomplish anything other than taking it out of the game.  Sort of.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Sorry on October 21, 2017, 08:18:03 PM
Honestly the most interesting thing I ever read about tuluk on the internets was a rumour that there's some really dark horror stuff going on in there (I don't know if we are allowed to repeat), that seems FAR more interesting than more of the same old merchant greed based politics http://metro.co.uk/2016/10/18/director-ken-loach-complains-tv-is-full-of-fake-nostalgia-thanks-to-downton-abbey-and-victoria-6199003/ and wildlife based dramas (which are definitely fun once but can't hold interest forever) that armageddon ends up for most people and then people post wondering why new people get bored? You can get involved in some interesting stuff a couple of times but then find that the rest is mindnumbing

I know it wasn't about Tuluk, but I really loved that log posted in the What happened to characters thread, of that Balthazar templar, Alisima and Alme (and posting logs like that seems quite rare, so many good stories probably just dying forever when people leave the game like tears in rain)

Most of us new people, that never knew all the in crowd of OOC cabals of people organising things out of game, probably find like me that the deep RP like that is so rare that in the end it's not worth the time investment for seeing if something, or someone interesting is around, because of the signal to emptiness ratio - even on the forums people only advertise events to people that already know what the events are, if you don't know people OOC it seems like armageddon was never interested in new players really and so it's shrink, die, or do something about that first!
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Molten Heart on October 21, 2017, 09:16:07 PM
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Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: icewindsong on October 22, 2017, 06:10:41 PM
I haven't played in Tuluk myself, though I've looked at logs of it from when my sister played there.  I thought the mixed elements of city recovering from destruction, new construction, and old established areas was a fascinating mix.  Its much more eclectic than Allanak, with the templar/governing areas with streets paved in bone, to the country club estates feel of the noble area, the big city slums area and the medieval fantasy-rpg village commercial area, and finally the poet/music area that reminded me of a university campus.  And yes the caves of the french revolution below.  I didn't find it disjointed from all the things I read, it made me want to go there and explore the area more myself.

So what would I like to see there?  One option is as someone else mentioned, for Allanak's forces to put it back under control of the Black.  Then it would become Allanak North I suppose.  I don't know anything about the time it was under control before.  It might be nostalgic for those who were.

My own idea would be for the nobles and government to have reacted to all the destruction and built new walls around the eastern half of the city - the government buildings, noble estates, and resources like their farms and such  - and turtled up basically.  It would leave a much smaller area left for people to play in - the slums, commons, commerce areas, so people finding each other to rp would be easier.  So it would be a place people could go in the north, and gather between runs to hunt and greb for the Houses and merchants of Allanak.  People who want to give a try playing there would be able to, but would still be tied to the rp and plots and politics of the south with the Northern families holed up in their new fortress area.

My character is very much an Allanaki, but I would enjoy trying out play there when I go to a new character sometime.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: 650Booger on October 22, 2017, 08:38:06 PM
I would like Tuluk to be reopened.  I think it enables all sorts of cool plot opportunities.  plus it gives everyone an automatic enemy to fear.  right now, upper echelon PCs in 'Nak society have nothing to fear unless they intentionally piss somebody off.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Aruven on October 22, 2017, 09:38:39 PM
Yea I don't know how the nak fanboys are pretending like plotlines are deeper or more rewarding without the other third of the world bringing resistance to it.

I've pretty much got the vibe that Tuluk is done and apparently everyone secretly thought it sucked ass (which I was unaware of).

I always played city characters. So it was nice to be able to play in a different city between deaths. Maybe we don't have the player base for it to feel that different anymore.

There's plenty of meaningful roleplaying to be done with Tuluk.

There may have been problems inherently with some design mechanics of the north but it didn't need to be just scrapped.

Instead of fixing anything the staff just shut down a bunch of player initiatives in the north, ran a crazy complicated plotline that most players weren't even aware was an option in game that favored the south heavily, and started a long line of apocalyptic motions to close the city over a long period of time. The preface to this was to slowly makes each zone unplayable in the area.

Meanwhile, there's more nobles in a room than commoners at a given time in any one of Allanak's taverns so far as I can tell.

Not too sure about this one.

Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Cind on October 22, 2017, 11:46:15 PM
As an unaffiliated commoner in Tuluk around its closing, I was -harassed- about joining the 1% and had no peace. There were just too many clans open and everyone was trying to get folks to join theirs. Yes, it had problems. I don't think it needed to be closed, but maybe they're just figuring out a way to fix things and then coding it in, after they finish making that one thing they were doing for a different part of the game.

What if Tulukis just 'didn't say what they mean?' Scrap the 'always be pleasant' thing since no one understands how it works, but lying directly or indirectly, that could work with a few more other things, collected together to form the social system, right? Being obtuse, talking around the issue, that sort of thing. It would help give off the continuing vague idea that Tulukis are somehow more intelligent by taking longer to say things.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Cind on October 22, 2017, 11:49:06 PM
One option is as someone else mentioned, for Allanak's forces to put it back under control of the Black.  Then it would become Allanak North I suppose.  I don't know anything about the time it was under control before.  It might be nostalgic for those who were.

This would be awesome--- another occupation, except that staff don't have a preplanned endpoint for it. Just let it remain occupied and let people enjoy playing there as either nakis or Tulukis, and I think someone mentioned that the Occupation was hands down the best period of Armageddon they had played. I wish I could have been playing during that time.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Bushranger on October 23, 2017, 04:56:45 AM
Tuluk implodes! The strife in the city becomes so intense that most of the city is destroyed, it's citizens are pressed into fighting for the various factions and kill each other off and they few who manage to survive are feral and ferocious. Only the Ivory Pyramid survives intact surrounded by ruins. Occasionally Legionnaires come out from the pyramid and smack people around as they go out to various holdings of the Sun King or return from them but they no longer maintain order in the ruins. If any nobles remain they are secluded in the Pyramid as their crumbled estates are picked over by scavengers.

I really like the idea that Tuluk is like a labyrinth of the North. Morin's is the only bastion of civilized security that most people can access, maintained by the GMHs and some Legionnaires sent from the Pyramid. Tribes have established themselves as the way of live outside the logging village and hunt the grasslands or scavenge the ruins. The Sun King still rules, presumably, from the Ivory Pyramid but no longer has a civilized city so if Allanak tries to invade the ruins they will be met by remaining legionnaires and militia pulled together from the tribes. It's gritty and dangerous and awesome :D
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Refugee on October 23, 2017, 09:48:03 AM
I loved Tuluk.  I always could find people to RP with, unlike in Nak.  It was easier to start a PC, that's true.  But there were always plots going on to get involved with.  Maybe that was a function of the PCs that were there when I was, I don't know. 

If they're going  to destroy it, I hope staff feeds a plot into some noble and we all get to blow it up together!

Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Yam on October 23, 2017, 09:53:57 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/B6FNbAx.jpg)
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Grapes on October 23, 2017, 11:18:02 AM
I like Bushranger's idea. Yes, the gates are, open... you can go inside, but if you see a twitchy guy, or someone missing teeth, oh no, you actually WENT inside... GET OUT! I'd love the idea of some kind of rebellion having taken place, and once the streets are basically clean, the gates open. You COULD go inside, but do you really want to listen to that one wide-eyed aide speak poetically of something that, for no explainable reason, makes your skin crawl? Probably not. Back to Morin's, fellows, this is some spooky stuff.

EDIT: Plus, there are some scenes that only make sense with Tuluk as a backdrop, a contrast to the Nakki elements. Whoever said Tuluk doesn't have enough lying going on, JEEZ, Tuluk is BUILT on lies. If you don't lie in Tuluk you're going to have a really bad time.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Riev on October 23, 2017, 11:27:39 AM
Which is why I'm still down for Muk Utep either going back to sleep or doing a Takhisis-stole-the-world plot where he goes off into the astral to find Zalanthas' true place. A reason for him to be gone and forsake even his Chosen and Beloved peoples, to return them to their true place.

I want elves to take over Tuluk so badly, but I cannot fathom any way that Muk Utep would abandon his post, High Templars that wouldn't absolutely murderate everyone, and just... Tuluk is too big to fail now.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: sleepyhead on October 23, 2017, 11:29:31 AM
I like the idea of Muk Utep going mad and having Tuluk be a really twisted, warped version of what it once was.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Grapes on October 23, 2017, 11:44:58 AM
Which is why I'm still down for Muk Utep either going back to sleep or doing a Takhisis-stole-the-world plot where he goes off into the astral to find Zalanthas' true place. A reason for him to be gone and forsake even his Chosen and Beloved peoples, to return them to their true place.

I want elves to take over Tuluk so badly, but I cannot fathom any way that Muk Utep would abandon his post, High Templars that wouldn't absolutely murderate everyone, and just... Tuluk is too big to fail now.

Planar travel is relatively difficult in a Dark Sun style world. That's kind of where gith come from. They managed to poke a hole in Athas one day and invaded, but NOPE, they may be awesome astral pirates with psionics, but they got thoroughly routed, and, the ones present, got STUCK. The gods managed to breach the grey of Athas, took one look around, and said, um, maybe I'll go do something else instead, and promptly closed it. It only really connects to the elemental planes, and no one outside of Athas who knows this wants to change this. Some Athasian beings have managed travel to planes other than the elemental, like, possibly Dregoth, depending who you ask. If Muk went to the astral plane, he's probably out for the count for at least a while.

EDIT: I mean, I suppose it's POSSIBLE, if you went to the plane of fire, found the brass city, and got the downlow on the portals therein. It would likely take some doing for a defiler, however, as I doubt anyone there would be very friendly.

EDIT 2: Let's also remember that the first Arm Nilazi to step out of a portal into a non-Dark Sun game would promptly be seen as the beginning of the zombie apocalypse. Zalanthans, much like Athasians, are like some weird superhumans from a dying, thoroughly toxic world, with a mindset ripped straight from "The Dosadi Experiment".
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Riev on October 23, 2017, 12:10:26 PM
Which is why I'm still down for Muk Utep either going back to sleep or doing a Takhisis-stole-the-world plot where he goes off into the astral to find Zalanthas' true place. A reason for him to be gone and forsake even his Chosen and Beloved peoples, to return them to their true place.

I want elves to take over Tuluk so badly, but I cannot fathom any way that Muk Utep would abandon his post, High Templars that wouldn't absolutely murderate everyone, and just... Tuluk is too big to fail now.

Planar travel is relatively difficult in a Dark Sun style world. That's kind of where gith come from. They managed to poke a hole in Athas one day and invaded, but NOPE, they may be awesome astral pirates with psionics, but they got thoroughly routed, and, the ones present, got STUCK. The gods managed to breach the grey of Athas, took one look around, and said, um, maybe I'll go do something else instead, and promptly closed it. It only really connects to the elemental planes, and no one outside of Athas who knows this wants to change this. Some Athasian beings have managed travel to planes other than the elemental, like, possibly Dregoth, depending who you ask. If Muk went to the astral plane, he's probably out for the count for at least a while.

EDIT: I mean, I suppose it's POSSIBLE, if you went to the plane of fire, found the brass city, and got the downlow on the portals therein. It would likely take some doing for a defiler, however, as I doubt anyone there would be very friendly.

EDIT 2: Let's also remember that the first Arm Nilazi to step out of a portal into a non-Dark Sun game would promptly be seen as the beginning of the zombie apocalypse. Zalanthans, much like Athasians, are like some weird superhumans from a dying, thoroughly toxic world, with a mindset ripped straight from "The Dosadi Experiment".

I love you but hold on a moment.

We were BASED on Dark Sun. Many many many many years ago. At best now we are INFLUENCED by Dark Sun, with some races and quirks from the universe. Those gods do not exist in Zalanthas, and we have our own world we can craft. There's no reason a mind-bending sorcerer-psionicist GOD KING can't access the astral, looking for a lost plane of existence, other than the writing and the raison d'etre.

And. Yes. Its possible AND would give a reason for the city to be leaderless like it was for many, many years. The struggle is that the city has been set up, thematically, to not be able to fall to a hundred thousand elves even if they WERE working together, because magick and reasons.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Molten Heart on October 23, 2017, 12:29:45 PM
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Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: LucildaHunta on October 23, 2017, 01:00:04 PM
We were BASED on Dark Sun. Many many many many years ago. At best now we are INFLUENCED by Dark Sun, with some races and quirks from the universe. Those gods do not exist in Zalanthas, and we have our own world we can craft. There's no reason a mind-bending sorcerer-psionicist GOD KING can't access the astral, looking for a lost plane of existence, other than the writing and the raison d'etre.

This is where having a "Sister" MUD would be cool as a destination for potential extra-planar travel.

Wasn’t Arctic Mud Arm’s sister Mud? Or am I remembering that wrong? This took a strange derail.

Think if we ask the staff do they have any plans for Tuluk they’d tell us?

Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: chrisdcoulombe on October 23, 2017, 01:15:48 PM
The black moon falls from the sky striking Tuluk directly, but somehow leaves Allanak undamaged.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Grapes on October 23, 2017, 02:37:52 PM
The black moon falls from the sky striking Tuluk directly, but somehow leaves Allanak undamaged.

The second the moon dropped Allanak and everyone else would race to mine it.

EDIT: I guess I'm saying that despite the destruction this would actually STRENGTHEN Tuluk's position, provided they still had the forces to hold it.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Grapes on October 23, 2017, 02:47:48 PM
Which is why I'm still down for Muk Utep either going back to sleep or doing a Takhisis-stole-the-world plot where he goes off into the astral to find Zalanthas' true place. A reason for him to be gone and forsake even his Chosen and Beloved peoples, to return them to their true place.

I want elves to take over Tuluk so badly, but I cannot fathom any way that Muk Utep would abandon his post, High Templars that wouldn't absolutely murderate everyone, and just... Tuluk is too big to fail now.

Planar travel is relatively difficult in a Dark Sun style world. That's kind of where gith come from. They managed to poke a hole in Athas one day and invaded, but NOPE, they may be awesome astral pirates with psionics, but they got thoroughly routed, and, the ones present, got STUCK. The gods managed to breach the grey of Athas, took one look around, and said, um, maybe I'll go do something else instead, and promptly closed it. It only really connects to the elemental planes, and no one outside of Athas who knows this wants to change this. Some Athasian beings have managed travel to planes other than the elemental, like, possibly Dregoth, depending who you ask. If Muk went to the astral plane, he's probably out for the count for at least a while.

EDIT: I mean, I suppose it's POSSIBLE, if you went to the plane of fire, found the brass city, and got the downlow on the portals therein. It would likely take some doing for a defiler, however, as I doubt anyone there would be very friendly.

EDIT 2: Let's also remember that the first Arm Nilazi to step out of a portal into a non-Dark Sun game would promptly be seen as the beginning of the zombie apocalypse. Zalanthans, much like Athasians, are like some weird superhumans from a dying, thoroughly toxic world, with a mindset ripped straight from "The Dosadi Experiment".

I love you but hold on a moment.

We were BASED on Dark Sun. Many many many many years ago. At best now we are INFLUENCED by Dark Sun, with some races and quirks from the universe. Those gods do not exist in Zalanthas, and we have our own world we can craft. There's no reason a mind-bending sorcerer-psionicist GOD KING can't access the astral, looking for a lost plane of existence, other than the writing and the raison d'etre.

And. Yes. Its possible AND would give a reason for the city to be leaderless like it was for many, many years. The struggle is that the city has been set up, thematically, to not be able to fall to a hundred thousand elves even if they WERE working together, because magick and reasons.

Oh god, imagine what Muk would think if he came back from the outer planes in a few king's ages and found elves had over-run his city... (nervous) Heh, I knew it would happen all along, as usual. Now uh, where are my fake elf ears?
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Armaddict on October 23, 2017, 04:15:58 PM
I was only in favor of Tuluk closing under the pretense that clans in the south would all remain open.  I wanted player consolidation in location, but not in purpose.  I wanted more people in close quarters but with conflicts between them that weren't petty conflicts.

The move to close out competing clans, or at least their 'trusted' tools, made the entire shutting down of Tuluk completely irrelevant.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: tapas on October 23, 2017, 05:05:01 PM
I don't think Tuluk's state of limbo is necessarily bad. Isn't that part of the theming of Tuluk? An ambiguous but unachievable utopia in the midst of barbarism?

I think there's actually a lot of interesting storytelling that can evolve around that angle.

Also dungeon crawls in the streets of Tuluk. Come on.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: BadSkeelz on October 23, 2017, 05:34:46 PM
I don't think Tuluk's state of limbo is necessarily bad. Isn't that part of the theming of Tuluk? An ambiguous but unachievable utopia in the midst of barbarism?

Tuluk theme of ambiguity is more an OOC product than an IC one right now. It's about as workable as Staff turning down requests from the players of breed and elven characters because they're not playing the master race. Trying to actually roleplay a character who still has ties to elements within Tuluk is a really awkward situation. Our characters can go in to the city, but we don't know what they see, and I for one don't feel comfortable making stuff up in case it leads to further awkwardness.

Staff can't seem to make up their mind how to handle Tuluk. First they said they were closing it for OOC reasons, then they cooked up some (pretty cool and awesome) in-character reasons, but neglected to follow-through and really close Tuluk to the IC world. The gates should be completely sealed, the forts abandoned, and no entry or egress available at all. Then at least we'll truly have the mystery of Sealed Tuluk to play against, instead of this "sealed but not really, you can go in but we don't tell you what you see" IC/OOC clusterfuck of a setting.


Though I guess overwrought or incoherent  and unplayable documentation is right in line with Tuluk.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Aruven on October 23, 2017, 05:56:11 PM
Lol Everyone is just like: let's put some fucking zombies in the streets so I have more shit to kill.

I'm glad this thread came up.

 Please just play in Allanak and don't ruin the memory of tuluk.

*This is coming from someone who thought the removal of tuluk at the time again was the worst possible thing for the game. At the time, I argued to keep Tuluk because we still had the players to make it work even though people were arguing in the tone that we didn't.
 
I was also just mad because in my opinion the whole closure had been triggered by what I will refer to as staff. They were saying it was about not having enough staff to support some clans at first, and then it devolved into Tuluk closing. They didn't offer to take on more staff members to staff the zone because they were already nitpicking how many players were where, and in the end they just ended up forcing retained players away from the game without any significant benefit of more players from some sort of consolidation.

I think the staff have made leaps and bounds in the game on some things. Tuluk just isn't one of them. And as someone who played their first toon in Tuluk, a place that had always been in the game since I started playing, the world just has a lot less of its soul when I play now, and I don't want to see it become a zombie infested xp zone. I'd rather it just stay in limbo than another bad option.




Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Hauwke on October 23, 2017, 06:28:05 PM
Tuluk's memory isnt a static one Aruven. Chucking a metric shit-ton of zombies into it is as much a part of its 'memory' as being a lying piece of crap that lives there.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: tapas on October 23, 2017, 06:35:47 PM
I don't think Tuluk's state of limbo is necessarily bad. Isn't that part of the theming of Tuluk? An ambiguous but unachievable utopia in the midst of barbarism?

Tuluk theme of ambiguity is more an OOC product than an IC one right now. It's about as workable as Staff turning down requests from the players of breed and elven characters because they're not playing the master race. Trying to actually roleplay a character who still has ties to elements within Tuluk is a really awkward situation. Our characters can go in to the city, but we don't know what they see, and I for one don't feel comfortable making stuff up in case it leads to further awkwardness.

Staff can't seem to make up their mind how to handle Tuluk. First they said they were closing it for OOC reasons, then they cooked up some (pretty cool and awesome) in-character reasons, but neglected to follow-through and really close Tuluk to the IC world. The gates should be completely sealed, the forts abandoned, and no entry or egress available at all. Then at least we'll truly have the mystery of Sealed Tuluk to play against, instead of this "sealed but not really, you can go in but we don't tell you what you see" IC/OOC clusterfuck of a setting.


Though I guess overwrought or incoherent  and unplayable documentation is right in line with Tuluk.

Probably a fair point. And would make for better play for the Tuluki Diaspora.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Aruven on October 23, 2017, 06:46:01 PM
Tuluk's memory isnt a static one Aruven. Chucking a metric shit-ton of zombies into it is as much a part of its 'memory' as being a lying piece of crap that lives there.

I have no idea what this means.

Why don't you just throw the zombies back onto the streets of Allanak? Bring the deep, well thought out storyline and RP right to everyone.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: flurry on October 23, 2017, 06:47:21 PM
Trying to actually roleplay a character who still has ties to elements within Tuluk is a really awkward situation.

"She's from Tuluk. You wouldn't know her."
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: solera on October 23, 2017, 06:48:52 PM
I think it would be cool to have infrequent rumor leaks from Tuluk to the closer bars. Its eventual ooc/ic fate is still lost in the storms of the future, but in the meantime there could be some sort of status quo.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Hauwke on October 23, 2017, 08:08:04 PM
Tuluk's memory isnt a static one Aruven. Chucking a metric shit-ton of zombies into it is as much a part of its 'memory' as being a lying piece of crap that lives there.

I have no idea what this means.

Why don't you just throw the zombies back onto the streets of Allanak? Bring the deep, well thought out storyline and RP right to everyone.

Sorry if its confusing, the point I am trying to make is a little hard to explain for me.

Basically, your memory of Tuluk isnt everyones memory, Tuluk is allowed to change from what it once was.

Also, yes, send me zombies to Allanak for some sweet, sweet HRPT wherein half the playerbase is killed.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Aruven on October 23, 2017, 08:56:29 PM
Oh I guess I just didn't understand that you were replying to make that confirmation, my bad. Yea i'd agree.

I don't know at what point we got into how my personal memory is involved most of these actions and conversations are well documented and available. A lot of it isn't too, and most of the people that would share similar sentiments with me have already left the game.

Anyways yea, i'm not sure how saying I don't want a place that arguably does have a culture and storyline suspended not become a hack n slash apocalypse for no reason but more shitty RP made up suddenly became me attacking change because of my static memory.

Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Molten Heart on October 23, 2017, 08:58:03 PM
.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: WarriorPoet on October 23, 2017, 09:02:24 PM
I never hid my disdain for Tuluk. Just wasn't for me.

I MISS TULUK for the ready-made conflict that patriotic  Nakkis were born into.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: evilcabbage on October 23, 2017, 09:29:45 PM
my memory of tuluk was that it was impossible to get involved in a lot of things because of the style of rp and how people treated it, and it just seemed to be "too" nice, where any shred of hostility was shut down immediately and violently.

my other opinion is that despite being on peak times, i had a hell of a time -actually- finding anyone to rp with there.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Malken on October 23, 2017, 09:31:08 PM
There's no way of knowing if there aren't zombies walking the streets of Tuluk right now. Isn't that the IC reason for Tuluk closing? They were colonized by zombies?

Well, technically, isn't Tuluk still 'open' ICly and business as usual, except you're just not allowed to play in? So I think technically our characters are supposed to know exactly what's going on with it, but us, as players, don't know.

SUPER SIMPLE REALLY.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: evilcabbage on October 23, 2017, 09:33:16 PM
after what i saw happening in tuluk, i don't think it's business as usual, but that's something staff would have to come down to say, and i'm not saying any more on the matter than that.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Molten Heart on October 23, 2017, 09:38:36 PM
.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Jihelu on October 23, 2017, 09:56:12 PM
Apparently Tuluki pcs can bribe their way out of the city.


So if I make a Tuluki can I know what the fuck is going on?
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Grapes on October 24, 2017, 03:11:27 AM
Good fucking GODS men, when I posted the question to ask the staff, I was curious as to the ongoing plot, not zombie nightmare fuel... although, that's, never been mutually exclusive with Tuluk.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Sorry on October 24, 2017, 12:11:35 PM
There could be noteworthy things happening in Tuluk but after leaving, people may just not remember for some reason, I don't know why. Probably not zombies, that'd be crazy.
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/12133a47346ef9f31cf31d480cbe53e4/tumblr_miqgcj59Kh1r0927do1_r1_250.gif)
:D
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: LucildaHunta on October 24, 2017, 12:37:01 PM
The potential for a really good plot is there, IJS!
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Patuk on October 25, 2017, 02:00:17 AM
What annoyed me about Tuluk was always and ever how top-heavy it felt. No labyrinth, no Red Storm for spicers and rogues of whatever sorts, no nothing. It showed.

On my last ever Tuluki character, I recall being the most foulmouthed little piece of shit I could be; I swore, looked scruffy, behaved poorly, did everything I could to be low class. It didn't matter a single thing, as I got job offers for any and all kinds of noble clans and the like to become a person of good standing despite being a rude little guttersnipe.

So, if Tuluk reopens, this is what I'd argue for:

Open two noble houses, no more. Removing Liratheans was an excellent move, please do not resuscitate. Bardic circles become virtual, though nobles can (obviously) hire bards of their own, if they really want to, just as a lord in Allanak can hire a bard if they are so inclined. Open a celf tribe that please God isn't the Akai Sjir, and some avenue for human criminality that isn't Templar-controlled as well. Rewrite the omniscient anti-mage code to make sure the legions have at least a little work to put in.

Tuluk was a place where players formed the upper crust of society much more than they do in Allanak, and it was a dynamic that got unsettling way too quickly.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: HavokBlue on October 25, 2017, 02:15:01 AM
At least one noble house was trying to hire guttersnipes and riff-raff and rogues as paid thugs and criminals (not Shadow Artists) but they never managed to last more than three days. :(
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Riev on October 25, 2017, 09:09:53 AM
At least one noble house was trying to hire guttersnipes and riff-raff and rogues as paid thugs and criminals (not Shadow Artists) but they never managed to last more than three days. :(

I think losing Undertuluk as a haven for illegal crime was a real shame. I know it was just mirroring the Labyrinth, and crime was 'legal' in Tuluk, but I always thought of it like Demolition Man. People CHOSE to live underground, away from the utopia of the surface world, because there they were free to choose. Tuluk told you how to eat, where to sleep, to smile and be friendly but duplicitous. You could be a criminal, so long as Big Brother is keyed in. Undertuluk allowed you to be a real criminal, fighting against the oppressors.

Then Shartists became a thing, and there wasn't room for anything otherwise, because a caste of all-knowing psionicists with an inherent need to control everything (lore wise, nothing against players) isn't good for illegal business.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: nauta on October 25, 2017, 09:30:26 AM
One question to ask ourselves: What did Tuluk get right?  Put another way, what did Tuluk offer that is no longer on offer in the gameworld?  Could this be re-introduced without the rest of Tuluk?  It seems to me that Tuluk offered an outlet to primarily social players that wasn't on offer elsewhere, but I'm having a hard time putting my finger on it.  Here's a stab at a start:

1. A place for social/city players to respawn after a death to get away from their old friends and plots.  (This is sort of a meta feature and applicable to any city, really.)

2. A ready-made antagonist for Allanaki citizens.  (This again is sort of a meta feature applicable to any city.)

3. An outlet for players interested in putting on plays and other (more classically defined) cultural works (i.e., more than bloodsports and bar songs) to a general audience.

4. Was there a more stable apartment system (as a function of shadow artists / all-knowing templarate)?  I feel like there was a lot more SIMs-style apartment building in Tuluk than Allanak, but this could likely be just misperception on my end.


Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Lizzie on October 25, 2017, 09:52:22 AM
What they got right:
1. The rebellion
2. Undertuluk
3. The existence of Lirathans and their general function in society*

*They needed more limits, both coded and documented. They sort of stopped being scary once it became very clear and obvious what they could do, and what they WERE doing on a regular basis. When Amos, played by NewbiePlayer who's only been playing since last Saturday, is telling Talia, played by 10+year veteran player, that Lirathans are all - what they were -, then something is wrong.

Perhaps random skills that rotated depending on the positions of the moons, or something. The concept of Lirathans is awesome. I just feel it could've been implemented in a way that would've packed more punch, with less grief from the rest of the playerbase.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: BadSkeelz on October 25, 2017, 01:39:59 PM
Most of what I've heard of Lirathans (especially later ones) make them sound like plot-stifling bio-snooping wet blankets. I don't think they were gotten right. Are there any good logs of them?

Tuluk certainly offered a good antagonist and "Other" to the Allanaki side of the game world. But its content was evidently unsustainable. Either players couldn't get it to work "properly" (I always found the Tuluki mindset hard to summarize and inhabit) or it just required too much staff oversight. Probably both.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Delirium on October 25, 2017, 01:48:48 PM
Tuluk was built on the (likely unconscious) assumption that there would be good players inhabiting every stratum of society, without which the entire idea more or less collapsed in on itself. Tuluk required those players to represent its society correctly, and when those existed, you got a Golden Age. These Golden Ages were extraordinarily rare and I can think of only two times it happened in my tenure post-rebellion, though admittedly I spent a lot of time elsewhere.

Tuluk's fatal flaw was that the documentation was too detailed, and required too much of its playerbase.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Riev on October 25, 2017, 01:53:26 PM
Assuredly required too much staff oversight from a contingent of staffers that too-often stated that they were volunteers and don't always have time for Arm.

Tuluk required a lot more use of thinks and feels to justify your smiling face and/or acquiescence to requests from people you thought to be your lesser. Thinks and feels that, while helping you keep your character in line, are laborious and only help the staff that aren't watching, or the <other people> who probably don't care either.

There were too many soldiers on the streets for a city with legal crime. Nowhere to set up any sort of mugging.

Most of the apartments weren't just easily pick-able, they had drop-in entrances that any 0-day stumbling around could find.

They never felt "at war" with Allanak, insomuch as "keep them away". AoD would constantly send up scouting patrols, but the Legion just wanted to keep their land and thus never cared to go a few steps into Luir's.

Some of the RP was astonishing, but it required the back-room access that only OOC friendships or luck could provide. Even being an aide often meant you were less trusted than "that hunter who brings me stuff sometimes".
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: HavokBlue on October 25, 2017, 03:52:49 PM
At least one noble house was trying to hire guttersnipes and riff-raff and rogues as paid thugs and criminals (not Shadow Artists) but they never managed to last more than three days. :(

I think losing Undertuluk as a haven for illegal crime was a real shame. I know it was just mirroring the Labyrinth, and crime was 'legal' in Tuluk, but I always thought of it like Demolition Man. People CHOSE to live underground, away from the utopia of the surface world, because there they were free to choose. Tuluk told you how to eat, where to sleep, to smile and be friendly but duplicitous. You could be a criminal, so long as Big Brother is keyed in. Undertuluk allowed you to be a real criminal, fighting against the oppressors.

Then Shartists became a thing, and there wasn't room for anything otherwise, because a caste of all-knowing psionicists with an inherent need to control everything (lore wise, nothing against players) isn't good for illegal business.

Well, no, again, for the last 6-8 months of Tuluk's life there was a coded clan that was actively promoting and encouraging criminal roleplay outside the Shadow Artist system. Most players instantly banded together to ostracize said clan and literally no PCs lasted more than a few days except the leader of said clan.

There was also a PC-created group in the Warrens that did an excellent job exploring crime in Tuluk, but many players may not have been exposed to that group.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: 650Booger on October 25, 2017, 04:52:20 PM
I just had a showerthought on this topic.  what if staff opened up a rollcall for a sponsored tuluki spy/assassin.  the selected player would roll up a mundane PC in allanak, but with a background that says they are a Tuluki spy.  Staff would play the handlers, communicating and giving assignements via weekly reports.  this PC would act in the interests of tuluk, on the orders of staff instructions, but nobody else would know who/what they were (unless they were caught, yikes!).

Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: BadSkeelz on October 25, 2017, 05:31:17 PM
I just had a showerthought on this topic.  what if staff opened up a rollcall for a sponsored tuluki spy/assassin.  the selected player would roll up a mundane PC in allanak, but with a background that says they are a Tuluki spy.  Staff would play the handlers, communicating and giving assignements via weekly reports.  this PC would act in the interests of tuluk, on the orders of staff instructions, but nobody else would know who/what they were (unless they were caught, yikes!).

People would suspect and PK every new character for a couple of weeks. It'd have to be a Secret Rolecall but even those I'm not sure of the survival rates.

There's nothing stopping you from rolling a northern-background assassin and making it your personal mission to raise hell for the Sun King, fortunately. Just got to hide the accent.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: lostinspace on October 25, 2017, 06:35:36 PM
After the rollcall Staff could simply delay introducing the character a month or so, maybe line it up after a major RPT where a few players die.

I don't feel like I lost much with the removal of Tuluk other than the vendors/easy to reach plants. I played a couple characters up north before it was closed, it was amazing to me how much more empty it felt, but how I felt I was under constant surveillance and never got away with anything.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Grapes on October 25, 2017, 06:40:29 PM
Just before the closure of Tuluk was a very exciting time to play in Tuluk. IIRC it had been handed off to Rathustra and staff there were doing a really smash up job of keeping things lively. That may sound unreal, but it happened, and then, out of nowhere, closed. I'm unsure whether that was the right choice or not, it's not really my call to make because there was a lot I didn't, and still don't know. I just know the closure felt a bit, jarring.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Aruven on October 25, 2017, 11:35:06 PM
I just had a showerthought on this topic.  what if staff opened up a rollcall for a sponsored tuluki spy/assassin.  the selected player would roll up a mundane PC in allanak, but with a background that says they are a Tuluki spy.  Staff would play the handlers, communicating and giving assignments via weekly reports.  this PC would act in the interests of tuluk, on the orders of staff instructions, but nobody else would know who/what they were (unless they were caught, yikes!).

Lmao  ;D

Things I think the game lost with tuluk's closure:

- Jihaen Templars (This is a storyline thing for me)

- Players

- The entire story of tuluk? It wasn't hard for me to buy into the history. I loved the release of the stories about the Sun-King or Tektolnes, or other obscure parts of the history. I think that fell off and just never picked back up. The old 'coming soon articles'. The dragon plots. Potential Alliances, potential wars. The in-between factions crawling together because of the might of a city state from one side or the other. Culture, the commoner doesn't have to bow to the highborn he liberated, its a cool edge to a society. A lot of unanswered history and opportunity to let the player-base build and expand. Learning/building more of the story. I'm not sure how to put it into one sentence and say: This was a loss for me in this regard.

But I joined the game after it was a hack n' slash mud, there were already plenty of those. I played armageddon because the stories blew me away.

- The RP that was provided for GMH organizing logistics and needs between two cities. I haven't played in a GMH house since Tuluk closed/hunter divisions closed so I don't know if that's a more exciting avenue now these days. I can only imagine the RP for Kurac has changed quite a bit now also.

- The city/tribal relations the north found itself involved in at any given time. I found it drastically different from Allanak. Allanak always seemed the occupy/crush everyone out while Tuluk seemed to be on a path like the old persian empire of cultural assimilation with a big brother obedience.

***

- People seem focused on the mechanics of Lirathans and how OP they were, despite the outcomes of the last few HRPTs involving tuluk, and despite the fact that the entire removal of that system/mechanic would have to effect OTHER CERTAIN Hierarchies in the game or they'll just be huge hypocrites if we're discussing power in the hands of the templaret.

Also, I wasn't playing in Tuluk at the very end but there were huge plans for a whole templaret revamp that had a lot of potential and seemed interesting. That might have been a response to the players on the Lirathan issue, but I cannot overstate at the moment, how overstated I think that issue is being made. You had every similar chance back in the day of a staff animating a black robe templar and just killing your noble if you were trying something dastardly in the south as you did a commoner getting swept up off the streets by a Lirathan in the north for the most part. I can understand with the game world NOW AS IS (I.E magick revamp) this topic being looked at again I suppose.

It looked like the city was going to go into some egyptian/mesopotamian age-like reformation and it was gearing up to be awesome. Not sure what happened but it went all mad max and the city closed. Maybe an avenue worth exploring.

The note about 'golden ages' in a particular RP area stands true for everywhere, not just Tuluk. There have been ages in both cities with very different feels based on who was in power.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: LucildaHunta on October 26, 2017, 10:32:44 AM
That was really well said Aruven.

I just want to add, I’m still very leery of saying Tuluk was more RP centric. One, Tuluk and Allanak share the same playerbase. You don’t start rp’ing in one place and stop in the other. Both cities are RP centric. It’s really divisive...I don’t like it. Division is the last thing the game needs. However two
cities are very much woven into the fabric of the game.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: ghanima on October 26, 2017, 11:22:24 AM
I think the reduction to a single city-state MUD has removed something very important from the game. Most importantly was the ability to fully separate from your past character once they die. If I'm into city slicker roles, then Allanak is my only option right now. I don't want to play some outdoorsman living on the frontier just because I lost my city bound character but that's the only real way to get some separation from my previous character's life right now (by living in Red Storm or Luir's etc).

The decision to close Tuluk has been an interesting experiment in consolidation and when it was first announced I applauded it wholeheartedly. Even now, I think it was a good choice to close it and see how things go. But now enough time has gone by that we can say ok this is how things go. If there's a plan in the works for Tuluk, great. If there's not, then it's just hanging in limbo, unrepresented as the enormous (albeit currently virtual) monolithic force that it is. Sooner or later it needs closure, be that in the form of its complete and total destruction or fully reopening it or something in between.

Like other posters have stated, I think Tuluk tried too hard to define itself that it became overly defined. Anyone who played in the days of the Rebellion will remember that Tulukis were loud and brash. The whole subtlety thing was invented as part of the new identity once they were reopened. And players justifiably badmouthed the whole Tuluki subtlety thing because it was not only the opposite of the Tuluki norm (not that a culture can't change over time, just not that fast) but it stole the show. If anything Allanak would be more subtle, culturally speaking. We're talking about a culture that is openly corrupt and does not try to hide that it is deceitful. And the only way to succeed in such a brutal empire as Allanak's is to be subtle. A Rinth elf is subtle if it knows whats good for itself, a noble is subtle if they know how to manipulate others and get what they want. But suddenly you had situations where an artistic, or sneaky and delicately worded Naki was yelled at and told to stop being like a Northerner. There's no need to make Tuluk and Allanak the polar opposite of one another. It's fine if they are just enemies. It is in fact their similarities that probably make them enemies more than their differences in the first place.

So what's to be done? Lotta ideas thrown out so far. If it's destroyed in full, I'd hope there is some remnant loyalist group reminiscent (but not a complete rewrite) of the Rebellion. Gith are monsters. They are essentially orcs and goblins. There's no political exchange at all. But human to human enemies allows for things like: defectors, spies, and treaties. You could basically take what was so great of the Rebellion days and just keep it going endlessly without ever reopening full scale Tuluk as it once was. Alternatively, if it were reopened somehow the whole cultural aspect needs to be watered down. Maybe whatever has happened to them currently has resulted in a sort of cultural dilution. Whatever the case, if it's opened it needs to dial it down a little in order to be successful. That's my advice anyway.

Fun thread so far :)
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Veselka on October 26, 2017, 11:42:35 AM
I think the reduction to a single city-state MUD has removed something very important from the game. Most importantly was the ability to fully separate from your past character once they die. If I'm into city slicker roles, then Allanak is my only option right now. I don't want to play some outdoorsman living on the frontier just because I lost my city bound character but that's the only real way to get some separation from my previous character's life right now (by living in Red Storm or Luir's etc).

The decision to close Tuluk has been an interesting experiment in consolidation and when it was first announced I applauded it wholeheartedly. Even now, I think it was a good choice to close it and see how things go. But now enough time has gone by that we can say ok this is how things go. If there's a plan in the works for Tuluk, great. If there's not, then it's just hanging in limbo, unrepresented as the enormous (albeit currently virtual) monolithic force that it is. Sooner or later it needs closure, be that in the form of its complete and total destruction or fully reopening it or something in between.

Like other posters have stated, I think Tuluk tried too hard to define itself that it became overly defined. Anyone who played in the days of the Rebellion will remember that Tulukis were loud and brash. The whole subtlety thing was invented as part of the new identity once they were reopened. And players justifiably badmouthed the whole Tuluki subtlety thing because it was not only the opposite of the Tuluki norm (not that a culture can't change over time, just not that fast) but it stole the show. If anything Allanak would be more subtle, culturally speaking. We're talking about a culture that is openly corrupt and does not try to hide that it is deceitful. And the only way to succeed in such a brutal empire as Allanak's is to be subtle. A Rinth elf is subtle if it knows whats good for itself, a noble is subtle if they know how to manipulate others and get what they want. But suddenly you had situations where an artistic, or sneaky and delicately worded Naki was yelled at and told to stop being like a Northerner. There's no need to make Tuluk and Allanak the polar opposite of one another. It's fine if they are just enemies. It is in fact their similarities that probably make them enemies more than their differences in the first place.

So what's to be done? Lotta ideas thrown out so far. If it's destroyed in full, I'd hope there is some remnant loyalist group reminiscent (but not a complete rewrite) of the Rebellion. Gith are monsters. They are essentially orcs and goblins. There's no political exchange at all. But human to human enemies allows for things like: defectors, spies, and treaties. You could basically take what was so great of the Rebellion days and just keep it going endlessly without ever reopening full scale Tuluk as it once was. Alternatively, if it were reopened somehow the whole cultural aspect needs to be watered down. Maybe whatever has happened to them currently has resulted in a sort of cultural dilution. Whatever the case, if it's opened it needs to dial it down a little in order to be successful. That's my advice anyway.

Fun thread so far :)

Really well written. I too fear that the separation between characters is gone, now that long-lived people mostly congregate in the same places. Most people just say 'suck it up', but I also hate to say, i've seen the quality of RP sort of decline in recent years, I think in part from this 'suck it up' attitude and general malaise. I've played other RPI's recently and been much more thrilled about the quality of RP there, I think because the players seem excited behind the PC to be playing the game. It feels like here, people are ho-hum sort of bored playing behind their PCs, and doing it just as a rote exercise.

I can see why Staff made the closure OOC -- it's something they can come back from. But I think as with many creative projects, one needs to commit fully or not at all. I particularly think the idea that some Tuluki's can re-enter the city and say Hi to friends and family was more than a little odd. If it had been shut completely, without a trace of entry, that would be far more mysterious and vague, and scary.

Tuluk reminds me now of 'Ravenholm' from Half Life 2, wherein no one goes to Ravenholm, and freaky things are going on there without people needing to view it or participate. To start, that would have been my posit -- No one goes to Tuluk. Not some people, special people go to Tuluk. It immediately robs the story/place of potential mystery and the petri dish quality of horror. What is brewing inside Tuluk that people haven't seen in years?

I would like for Tuluk to re-open, even in a destroyed state, but understand the impetus for closing it was Staff being stretched thin. From what I see, Staff is still stretched thin, even with this consolidation and closure of Tuluk, so I don't think re-opening it is a great idea empirically. If it were re-opened, it would need to be in a much simpler form, with way less detailed documentation and 'need to know' details.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Riev on October 26, 2017, 11:48:19 AM
At least one noble house was trying to hire guttersnipes and riff-raff and rogues as paid thugs and criminals (not Shadow Artists) but they never managed to last more than three days. :(

I think losing Undertuluk as a haven for illegal crime was a real shame. I know it was just mirroring the Labyrinth, and crime was 'legal' in Tuluk, but I always thought of it like Demolition Man. People CHOSE to live underground, away from the utopia of the surface world, because there they were free to choose. Tuluk told you how to eat, where to sleep, to smile and be friendly but duplicitous. You could be a criminal, so long as Big Brother is keyed in. Undertuluk allowed you to be a real criminal, fighting against the oppressors.

Then Shartists became a thing, and there wasn't room for anything otherwise, because a caste of all-knowing psionicists with an inherent need to control everything (lore wise, nothing against players) isn't good for illegal business.

Well, no, again, for the last 6-8 months of Tuluk's life there was a coded clan that was actively promoting and encouraging criminal roleplay outside the Shadow Artist system. Most players instantly banded together to ostracize said clan and literally no PCs lasted more than a few days except the leader of said clan.

There was also a PC-created group in the Warrens that did an excellent job exploring crime in Tuluk, but many players may not have been exposed to that group.

Oh, I know there were OPTIONS, but you were still beholden to living in and amongst Tulukis and under [PERSON HIRING THEM] and their rules. Undertuluk gave sort of a Haven where you could escape to, and hope that your boss didn't owe the Faithful for something. Hiring from inside Tuluk meant that if you sat at a bar, and the Templar suspected you of being in [secret group] you're already dead.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: sleepyhead on October 26, 2017, 11:54:57 AM
Yeah. If you're going to keep Tuluk closed (even if there is an intention to maybe possibly reopen it some day) then remove the ability for characters to enter and leave. Make it completely closed and also have it be known that no one seems to be able to Way in or out, or perhaps the few messages that do get through are garbled and suggest bizarre occurrences or madness. Don't make it so that some people can enter Tuluk. And certainly don't make it so that those people can't even know OOCly what they ICly saw or heard. Then you can start hinting at weird goings on inside and make it all more atmospheric. Tuluk's closure can add to the lore instead of taking away, then.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Jihelu on October 26, 2017, 01:21:41 PM
"And certainly don't make it so that those people can't even know OOCly what they ICly saw or heard. "

This part actually angers me.

We can ic enter Tuluk as a tuluki by ooc/vnpc bribes and shit.
I can virtually go into Tuluk, eat with my parents or something, then leave.
What the hell do I need to do to find out what's going on in there outside of this? Do I need to send in a request sometime? I think I've already played a post tuluk closed Tuluki, so does that mean I can get the info now? Can the info just be posted on the forum seeing as anyone can make a Tuluki citizen at char gen?
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: sleepyhead on October 26, 2017, 01:24:46 PM
I am pretty sure that the policy is that you cannot be told what is going on inside the city. Even if you app a fresh character that JUST escaped Tuluk, you can't know. I'm guessing because staff don't know.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Jihelu on October 26, 2017, 01:27:16 PM
I am pretty sure that the policy is that you cannot be told what is going on inside the city. Even if you app a fresh character that JUST escaped Tuluk, you can't know. I'm guessing because staff don't know.
I am physically angered
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: sleepyhead on October 26, 2017, 01:29:03 PM
Well, I'm only pretty sure, so it'd probably be best to hear from staff before you get too angry.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Malken on October 26, 2017, 05:46:08 PM
Well, I'm only pretty sure, so it'd probably be best to hear from staff before you get too angry.

But getting angry before hearing from staff is an Armageddon tradition!
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Molten Heart on October 26, 2017, 05:54:58 PM
.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Fredd on October 26, 2017, 06:34:04 PM
I think the Staff have been sitting on a great engine to push plots forward with a closed Tuluk.

Now they have a city of NPC's to declair war with. Or send raiding parties with.  Now they have the antagonist entity they need.

Use it?
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Delirium on October 26, 2017, 06:54:51 PM
What ghanima said, and ^^^ what Fredd said.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: TheGoose on October 29, 2017, 12:52:54 PM
This thread.

(https://i.imgur.com/EucIfYY.gif)
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Is Friday on October 29, 2017, 01:31:33 PM
If Tuluk were to be re-opened for play I'd suggest a very small portion of it to be brought in. Perhaps Warrens-only to allow a full development of the underside of Tuluk.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Cind on October 30, 2017, 02:13:33 AM

1. Burn Tuluk to the ground. Muk disappears into the Unknown, remaining a threat that is not killing you right now.

2. Due to the free land, forest access, resources, etc. Allanak establishes a soldier outpost through which approved merchants and the merchant houses are allowed transit and access, bringing back riches.

3. As a natural and intended-at-the-beginning step down this road, Allanak provides for the creation of a large industrious village, building walls far larger than what is needed, in preparation for the growth of a colony-city. Any tribes who have planted roots in the area are mercilessly dealt with.

4. Riches and women.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: boog on October 30, 2017, 02:45:24 PM
If you're physically angered by something in regards to a game, you might wanna go take a walk instead of raging further about it on the boards.

Anyway, I had a Tuluki PC last yearish, and I drew up a vague, 'this is how I think she got out, granted, she doesn't remember much of anything because PTSD and blackouts.'

It was fun. Except other PCs thought my character wasn't really Tuluki because she wouldn't talk about 'it', which I thought was super lame.

I think Tuluk needs something done with it, or it needs to be removed completely. I'd be down with the Warrens having survived, and now some scummy elf offshoot of the Bejeweled's taken over and other races are subservient to the elves. Or dwarves. Or whatever. Something not human! And a female leader. We have enough Sorcerer and Sun Kings.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: HavokBlue on October 30, 2017, 03:27:40 PM
Muk Utep and his templars, faced with growing discontent and strife, turn the Warrens into what amounts to a quarantined prison camp. A wall is erected around the Warrens and criminals and dissidents (common and noble alike) are shoved through the gates and left to fend for themselves until they are inevitably killed or starve. Desperate and crafty, the people eking out a survival in the Warrens unearth old tunnels beneath Tuluk (the flooding has since subsided) and and re-establish limited contact with the outside world, allowing goods and people to be smuggled in and out.

Perhaps worse than life in the Warrens is what lies beyond the black walls, in old Tuluk. Strange sounds sometimes carry over the dark stone and columns of acrid black smoke are commonly seen rising from the city while roaming the narrow, ash-choked alleys. Nobody comes through the gates anymore.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Synthesis on October 30, 2017, 03:56:46 PM
Having PC-playable psionic authority figures was a terrible idea, in my opinion.  I don't know what the retcon solution going forward is going to be.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Fredd on October 31, 2017, 10:00:03 AM
Having PC-playable psionic authority figures was a terrible idea, in my opinion.  I don't know what the retcon solution going forward is going to be.

That was retconned long long before tuluk closed sir.

I hope  they bring them back, and we get to kill old school lirathans in an epic war of evil vs. more evil.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Riev on October 31, 2017, 10:03:07 AM
It wasn't retconned.

PCs no longer had direct access to certain and particular skills, despite those skills still being prevalent in the NPC population.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: nauta on October 31, 2017, 10:13:00 AM
Muk Utep and his templars, faced with growing discontent and strife, turn the Warrens into what amounts to a quarantined prison camp. A wall is erected around the Warrens and criminals and dissidents (common and noble alike) are shoved through the gates and left to fend for themselves until they are inevitably killed or starve. Desperate and crafty, the people eking out a survival in the Warrens unearth old tunnels beneath Tuluk (the flooding has since subsided) and and re-establish limited contact with the outside world, allowing goods and people to be smuggled in and out.

Perhaps worse than life in the Warrens is what lies beyond the black walls, in old Tuluk. Strange sounds sometimes carry over the dark stone and columns of acrid black smoke are commonly seen rising from the city while roaming the narrow, ash-choked alleys. Nobody comes through the gates anymore.

Love it!  Certain desert elf tribes discover these tunnels, and begin trade.  Kurac catches on, etc.

As mentioned by others, though, almost any plot like this is going to bump up against the all-encompassing eye of the Tuluki Templarate.  Simple solutions abound: some sort of forest fungus invades the area, dampening certain psionic powers.  We've seen it before:

Quote
1200 (Year 45 Age 16)
The clerical orders begin to rise. For unknown reasons, the powers of the elements experience greater access to the elemental planes.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Fredd on October 31, 2017, 11:14:47 AM
It wasn't retconned.

PCs no longer had direct access to certain and particular skills, despite those skills still being prevalent in the NPC population.

Then perfect. I'de love to see some evil npc psychic templars leading groups of psychically enhanced troops (no fear of death, don't feel pain, whatever)

Maybe units of Jihae templars leading winrothols new breed of half-elf  half-dwarfs calld Dwelves. The new ultimate fighter.

(cmon, you really think  winrothol stopped their weird sex experiments? Last time they were trapped in an area for any length of time, they made muls)
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: WarriorPoet on October 31, 2017, 11:29:10 AM
I think the Staff have been sitting on a great engine to push plots forward with a closed Tuluk.

Now they have a city of NPC's to declair war with. Or send raiding parties with.  Now they have the antagonist entity they need.

Use it?

This is the ticket. Give us an NPC entity to fight with. Tuluk looks like it is getting its feet back under it a little bit? Time to hire the Byn and ride north to burn Morins down. Oh look, a mob/army of Tuluki refugees in flight headed south. Time for the Arm and Borsail to hit them on the march for a battle/slave raid. Tuluk has contracted a random northern tribe for lumber and building materials? Can't have that. Tribe needs to be massacred.

USE IT.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: chrisdcoulombe on October 31, 2017, 11:34:33 AM
Morin's Doesn't belong to Tuluk though why would they burn it down?
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Aruven on October 31, 2017, 11:54:19 AM
*nvm*
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: evilcabbage on October 31, 2017, 12:21:43 PM
pretty sure morin's is land rented by kadius from tuluk.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: chrisdcoulombe on October 31, 2017, 12:25:05 PM
So the Byn is going to Attack Kadius cause they are on Tuluk land?
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Grapes on October 31, 2017, 12:36:34 PM
So the Byn is going to Attack Kadius cause they are on Tuluk land?

Methinks that would end very badly for find out IC reasons.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Riev on October 31, 2017, 01:12:32 PM
You people are, simply, awful.

I didn't think WP had a serious "do this" suggestion. It was a "here's the kind of stuff that can be done, now!"

Except it can't. Because anyone that tries to do anything in game is met with "but that really wouldn't happen because <x>"
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Grapes on October 31, 2017, 01:19:55 PM
You people are, simply, awful.

I didn't think WP had a serious "do this" suggestion. It was a "here's the kind of stuff that can be done, now!"

Except it can't. Because anyone that tries to do anything in game is met with "but that really wouldn't happen because <x>"

Nobody was objecting to his other awesome suggestions.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: chrisdcoulombe on October 31, 2017, 01:34:48 PM
GG
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Molten Heart on October 31, 2017, 01:51:02 PM
.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: chrisdcoulombe on October 31, 2017, 02:13:24 PM
Pick gate
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: WarriorPoet on October 31, 2017, 02:15:18 PM
Yeah. That was pre coffee spitballing.

But thanks for nitpicking it.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Grapes on October 31, 2017, 05:33:51 PM
Let's not derail the thread with talk of something that would quite easily snowball from cause and effect due to easily uncovered in events in other locations and be one of those "NOPE" calls for whoever happens to be leadership in the Byn at the time by talking about how it could happen with staff support. That aside...

Tuluk is still alive and no matter what may be going on inside the gates, they will need supplies. Cutting off those supplies could branch into legionairres coming to the aide of fleeing tribals and spark other things. I like that.

Rounding up a band of fleeing refugees for mysterious purposes would be useful too, either as slaves, or to indoctrinate them with hatred of the city they fled, training them, with the eventual plan to send them back as spies and saboteurs, sleeper agents, whenever the gates, inevitably, reopen. Secret role-call, anyone? Or hell, maybe just arena entertainment.

The overall idea to schedule little RPTs like this is, overall very good. Just because I find fault with one pre-coffee spitball doesn't mean I dislike WP and/or his entire post.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Miggy on November 01, 2017, 04:23:24 PM
So this suggestion might fall flat on its face, but its a combination of three insights:

3. Allanak has a much more robust (if spartan) culture and history to it than Tuluk.

Completely disagree. As someone that has played right hand noble aides in both cities and learned a lot of history. I loved Tuluks flavor, culture and history more then i ever liked Nak's.
They had different feels.

Putting Nak where tuluk is not a good idea. The reason they chose Nak over the north, was danger, and scarcity of supplies. You HAVE to ride north for wood, hides, and other supples.
You have to ride south for....Spice?

No if they were gonna close one city, they chose wisely. But they did it wrong. Shoulda been a war, and they could leave the ruins of a city there filled with raiders and shit. It could be like a wildlands Labrinth
I would LOVE this.
Foraging for awesome artifacts, groups of dangerous raiders, other groups vying for territory, treasures, roaming beasts.... etc.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Cind on November 02, 2017, 06:47:19 AM
I like that. Let's make going north of Luir's crazy. Not so dangerous so that no one will go there, but crazy wild fun dangerous. A wilderness that seeks at all times to kill you and never sleeps. Like normal, but dialed up to 11.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: evilcabbage on November 02, 2017, 06:49:50 AM
..... you want dialed to 11?

go into the grey forest.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Riev on November 02, 2017, 10:06:17 AM
..... you want dialed to 11?

go into the grey forest.

I mean that's exactly what Cind was talking about.

But to what end, exactly? The Forest is just full of dangerous mobs, who don't drop or skin anything anyone needs or requires. Its a zone that wants to kill you, but has no value other than to be a challenge.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: evilcabbage on November 02, 2017, 10:07:33 AM
there are plenty of things you can skin in there that most certainly are very useful.

not everything has to have something people 'require', or 'need', just something people 'want'.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: ShaLeah on November 02, 2017, 10:59:56 AM
Bring back the halflings.

Open it back up.

Let's see how long PCs last THEN.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Fredd on November 02, 2017, 01:57:58 PM
Bring back the halflings.

Open it back up.

Let's see how long PCs last THEN.

While not related to tuluk really. I 100% support this. Halflings had one of the neatest cultures I ever got to read about.

I'de love the chance to play them.
Make them Karama 2 I'de say, since Pvp is kinda built in.

there are plenty of things you can skin in there that most certainly are very useful.

not everything has to have something people 'require', or 'need', just something people 'want'.

Not to mention, the plants.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: TheGoose on November 02, 2017, 02:55:49 PM
It's mostly the plants that make the Gray Forest worth going into.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Tiktak on November 02, 2017, 04:47:55 PM
Just please bring back Tuluk and its rich culture and clans. It is my favorite part of this game and without it, it is just not as fun for me. I miss the Bardic Circle, the Faithful, the romanesque feel, the cotton fields, and the stark difference to Allanak. I miss the that. I even miss the halfling, fearing that they're waiting in the shadows with their blowdarts to eat my face.

I get that many of you are Pro-Allanak, that's cool. Power to you. I'm Pro-Tuluk. I miss the Light.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: gotdamnmiracle on November 02, 2017, 06:18:51 PM
I really like this idea of a wilderness Rinth. I guess I've been won over. I think we should use the opportunity to make it the covetted magicker community, except it's miserable. It's filled with gangs constantly vying for power, horrible and strange goings on, bizarre creatures patrolling ash caked alleys, and maybe we don't just open the gates to it, but rather open a tunnel to it. Make it a legitimate dungeon that opens into a den of defiling and nightares.

Or just another raiders den.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Fredd on November 02, 2017, 06:20:57 PM
Just please bring back Tuluk and its rich culture and clans. It is my favorite part of this game and without it, it is just not as fun for me. I miss the Bardic Circle, the Faithful, the romanesque feel, the cotton fields, and the stark difference to Allanak. I miss the that. I even miss the halfling, fearing that they're waiting in the shadows with their blowdarts to eat my face.

I get that many of you are Pro-Allanak, that's cool. Power to you. I'm Pro-Tuluk. I miss the Light.

I am probably one of the biggest pro tuluk people you'll meet (there is literally a statue of one of my PC's in the warrens) But if you take game population into account, there is no way we can populate a second city. That would mean doubling the clans, essentially.  The playerbase, and admin base, can't support that.

They could get away with opening one  of the lost tribes I feel though. Maybe two, if they were mid Karma roles. Halflings. Or hey, bring back the old gith race. Mesa Gith would add a good bit of danger to the game, and fun. As much as the halflings would. Each for there own different reasons.

Then theres those treehugging elves everyone misses.

And I'm still pro war-then ruined tuluk

Anyways, TLDR Not enough people. But they could definately open one of the three more PVP proned tribes, and that would have the effect most people want.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Delirium on November 02, 2017, 06:28:12 PM
Adding neat new stuff brings back people and draws in new ones.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Veselka on November 02, 2017, 06:34:02 PM
Adding neat new stuff brings back people and draws in new ones.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Tiktak on November 02, 2017, 07:49:41 PM
Adding neat new stuff brings back people and draws in new ones.

As the game is right now, it feels small. I run into the same players with new characters more oft than I like. There isn't the buffer of being able to get 'away' from your last character's social circle sometimes. Yes, you can go to Luir's or even Morin's but that isn't always enough, nor does either location have the same opportunities that cities offer. It gets stifling.

And as the great saying goes .... if you build it, they will come. Have a world built for more players, to attract more players, don't downsize and expect that to be enticing.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Veselka on November 02, 2017, 09:12:10 PM
40 players at peak with major taverns empty doesn't sound like consolidation is going too well, anyways.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Veselka on November 02, 2017, 09:13:32 PM
Adding neat new stuff brings back people and draws in new ones.

As the game is right now, it feels small. I run into the same players with new characters more oft than I like. There isn't the buffer of being able to get 'away' from your last character's social circle sometimes. Yes, you can go to Luir's or even Morin's but that isn't always enough, nor does either location have the same opportunities that cities offer. It gets stifling.

And as the great saying goes .... if you build it, they will come. Have a world built for more players, to attract more players, don't downsize and expect that to be enticing.

I agree. The thing is, the 'plots' are as much the same as the characters. Your new PC might add in some dynamic to plots, or create plots around themselves. But Tuluk provided a whole different set of plots, of PCs, and long-lived concepts to dig off of.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: TheGoose on November 02, 2017, 09:21:45 PM
Adding neat new stuff brings back people and draws in new ones.

Especially considering how many people left because Tuluk closed.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Riev on November 03, 2017, 09:04:59 AM
Just please bring back Tuluk and its rich culture and clans. It is my favorite part of this game and without it, it is just not as fun for me. I miss the Bardic Circle, the Faithful, the romanesque feel, the cotton fields, and the stark difference to Allanak. I miss the that. I even miss the halfling, fearing that they're waiting in the shadows with their blowdarts to eat my face.

I get that many of you are Pro-Allanak, that's cool. Power to you. I'm Pro-Tuluk. I miss the Light.

I am probably one of the biggest pro tuluk people you'll meet (there is literally a statue of one of my PC's in the warrens) But if you take game population into account, there is no way we can populate a second city. That would mean doubling the clans, essentially.  The playerbase, and admin base, can't support that.

I have to VIOLENTLY disagree with you on this, as we technically have the same number of staff now as we used to (depending on current activity) while sustaining multiple spheres.

We can support, and have supported, this before. At the time of closure, Tuluk had gone through a lot of changes and iterations by people trying to improve it and, unfortunately, those efforts did not 'revitalize' in the manner they hoped. At that point, to keep it running, it required far too much micromanagement and staff to assist "in the proper way".
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Delirium on November 03, 2017, 09:53:43 AM
Tuluk doesn't have to come back as... Tuluk was. In fact in my opinion it absolutely shouldn't.

I don't care whether it's destroyed or brought back as some vastly simplified nightmare civilization.

It's just painfully awkward to RP around a ginormous plot-piece that is in extended limbo.

You have this huge opportunity to do crazy fun plot-piece stuff and it's just... sitting there.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: evilcabbage on November 03, 2017, 10:15:32 AM
open it up as a nightmare area where things went from bad to worse

exploration could yield great rewards, treasures and the like...

and a -very- untimely death.


something like that would appease dungeoneering folks like crazy.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Riev on November 03, 2017, 10:33:08 AM
open it up as a nightmare area where things went from bad to worse

exploration could yield great rewards, treasures and the like...

and a -very- untimely death.


something like that would appease dungeoneering folks like crazy.

I'm kinda down for a dungeoneering/artifact retrieval area. Especially if its super hard and isn't just "send in some invis burglar and win".

But it would never happen, because OP psionics and being able to see the future.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: TheGoose on November 03, 2017, 10:35:18 AM
I would really rather the city reopened so that we could have an entire culture that's accessable to PCs, and PC antagonists, which will always be 100x better than NPCs no matter what.

Just undo the problematic stuff if it was changed to be problematic. Tuluk ran for what, 15 years? Longer? Clearly it wasn't always a problem.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: sleepyhead on November 03, 2017, 11:32:38 AM
open it up as a nightmare area where things went from bad to worse

exploration could yield great rewards, treasures and the like...

and a -very- untimely death.


something like that would appease dungeoneering folks like crazy.

I'm kinda down for a dungeoneering/artifact retrieval area. Especially if its super hard and isn't just "send in some invis burglar and win".

But it would never happen, because OP psionics and being able to see the future.

Maybe Muk Utep abandoned Tuluk. Maybe no one knows where he went. We can get him out of the picture.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: LucildaHunta on November 03, 2017, 12:17:27 PM
Would staff take ideas we throw out there and run with them?

Here’s a fun one, since we’re throwing ideas out there.

While whatever is going on in Tuluk is going on a third faction comes into the known. Let’s say they are from beyond the Grey Forest. They are an NPC faction, lead by another sorcerer king or queen with a horde on the scale the known has never seen. They smash into Tuluk, Muk Utep disappears, Tuluk falls and is conquered. This faction isn’t stopping there, they’re rolling southward. Allanak meets them in battle and is pushed back. They finally manage to push NPC faction back. The wars with both Tuluk and Allanak greatly weakened NPC faction to the point where they’re still in control of Tuluk but the old social structure is gone. New, player run houses rise and fall in this new Tuluk.
Alliances are made and broken. This is the new Tuluk full of Murder, Corruption and Betrayal!

Tldr version. Tuluk becomes the player agency area. You can start your own house or clan. You compete with other players for resources to do whatever it is you do. If everybody dies, there goes your clan. Clan warehouses, housing, manpower....that’s all on you and your clan.

Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: TheGoose on November 03, 2017, 12:22:31 PM
Betcha Allanak would empty out like that.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: LucildaHunta on November 03, 2017, 12:50:45 PM
I think I already know how it would turn out ultimately. Buuuut....just throwing it out there.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Molten Heart on November 03, 2017, 12:55:12 PM
.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: evilcabbage on November 03, 2017, 01:03:05 PM
so staff already had trouble running -two- cities plus all the merchant houses and indie tribes and elves and such...

and you want an ENTIRE city based on player clans?

yeah, i don't think that's gonna happen.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Molten Heart on November 03, 2017, 01:42:39 PM
.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: evilcabbage on November 03, 2017, 01:57:56 PM
i already said what i want to happen.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Riev on November 03, 2017, 02:06:40 PM
All you mentioned is what would appease dungeoneering folks. Is that what YOU'D like to see happen to Tuluk? Most of your comments on this thread have been why someone's idea would not work.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: evilcabbage on November 03, 2017, 02:23:58 PM
well i wouldn't say to do it if i didn't want it.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: LucildaHunta on November 03, 2017, 03:47:02 PM
I think we all have ideas on why a “Free Tuluk” scenario wouldn’t work. One of the biggies would be the burden it would put on staff. How could the burden be mitigated?

I’m thinking the easiest way is staff sets up and provides basic city structure: Ruler (NPC), Military and financial. Those three things would be too big to fail and would have the traditional clan structure. I see that taking three storytellers at most.

The government, minor merchant houses, general scumbaggery all come from the players. There are no GMH’s up north. Luirs is as far as they go, it adds another layer of espionage and intrigue by keeping them out. Dummy corps anyone? Wagonbuilding could become a thing and so could wagon theft. So can being a caravan guard. So can starting a mercenary company. I could go on and on.

What do you guys think? Add to it.... tear it down.

Make Tuluk great again.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Riev on November 03, 2017, 04:02:03 PM
I'm on board with a Warrens-opens-up-trade sort of scenario, but I feel like that wouldn't be "enough". It'd just be an excuse to put some Tuluk-only vendors in a new zone and that's what it'd be treated as.

I'd rather Tuluk stay closed to players, but Staff take the reins. Control scouting parties. Send out some bagheads looking for "supplies". Have a small contingent take over a few points of interest and start trying to shore up defenses, and players can either assist or combat it.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: TheGoose on November 03, 2017, 05:15:23 PM
What's a 'baghead?'
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Delirium on November 03, 2017, 05:17:53 PM
Quote from: http://armageddon.org/world/chronology.php
1641 (Year 24 Age 22)
Unaffiliated southern refugees are rounded up from various slums in Tuluk by the Legions. Several weeks after the first disappearances, a force led by High Templar Jurinia Winrothol takes a force of listless figures masked by burlap sacks to the northern gates of Ten'Sarak, along with regular soldiers of His Legions, including the Sun's Furies, and various Faithful. After a short siege, the Tuluki forces break through the northern gate and systematically slaughter the remaining southern troops in the encampment before setting it ablaze. Tuluk abandons the razed camp and claims victory over Allanak.

High Templar Jurinia's shambling force grows as citizens and non-citizens alike begin to disappear from the streets of Tuluk. Riots begin to take place, and templars for and against High Templar Jurinia square off in the Red Sun Commons. The encounter ends with High Templar Poma Uaptal knocking High Templar Jurinia unconscious and calling for the gates of Tuluk to be closed. Denizens of Tuluk flee as fighting emerges between the two factions within the Unified Order.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Molten Heart on November 03, 2017, 05:29:55 PM
.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Delirium on November 03, 2017, 06:05:52 PM
(https://media.tenor.com/images/8118f57c21f6e27ce866a426382c4fc8/tenor.gif)
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Hauwke on November 03, 2017, 06:38:39 PM
Huh... So my IC bullshit that one time was an actual thing? Neat.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Veselka on November 03, 2017, 06:44:34 PM
Quote from: http://armageddon.org/world/chronology.php
1641 (Year 24 Age 22)
Unaffiliated southern refugees are rounded up from various slums in Tuluk by the Legions. Several weeks after the first disappearances, a force led by High Templar Jurinia Winrothol takes a force of listless figures masked by burlap sacks to the northern gates of Ten'Sarak, along with regular soldiers of His Legions, including the Sun's Furies, and various Faithful. After a short siege, the Tuluki forces break through the northern gate and systematically slaughter the remaining southern troops in the encampment before setting it ablaze. Tuluk abandons the razed camp and claims victory over Allanak.

High Templar Jurinia's shambling force grows as citizens and non-citizens alike begin to disappear from the streets of Tuluk. Riots begin to take place, and templars for and against High Templar Jurinia square off in the Red Sun Commons. The encounter ends with High Templar Poma Uaptal knocking High Templar Jurinia unconscious and calling for the gates of Tuluk to be closed. Denizens of Tuluk flee as fighting emerges between the two factions within the Unified Order.

See, this simple synopsis seems on the surface like a great set up for some other things.

#bagheads #bagheadpatrols #bagheadsarepeopletoo #dontbecomeabaghead
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Fredd on November 04, 2017, 11:17:22 AM
Just please bring back Tuluk and its rich culture and clans. It is my favorite part of this game and without it, it is just not as fun for me. I miss the Bardic Circle, the Faithful, the romanesque feel, the cotton fields, and the stark difference to Allanak. I miss the that. I even miss the halfling, fearing that they're waiting in the shadows with their blowdarts to eat my face.

I get that many of you are Pro-Allanak, that's cool. Power to you. I'm Pro-Tuluk. I miss the Light.

I am probably one of the biggest pro tuluk people you'll meet (there is literally a statue of one of my PC's in the warrens) But if you take game population into account, there is no way we can populate a second city. That would mean doubling the clans, essentially.  The playerbase, and admin base, can't support that.

I have to VIOLENTLY disagree with you on this, as we technically have the same number of staff now as we used to (depending on current activity) while sustaining multiple spheres.

We can support, and have supported, this before. At the time of closure, Tuluk had gone through a lot of changes and iterations by people trying to improve it and, unfortunately, those efforts did not 'revitalize' in the manner they hoped. At that point, to keep it running, it required far too much micromanagement and staff to assist "in the proper way".

Not talking about Staff. I'm talking about players. And the playerbase being able to support a doubling of clans. It can't.

As of now,  the highpoint seems to be high 30's low 40's of players.

Now split that Up amongst clans.
Kurac, Kadius ,Salarr, Byn, His Arm.

That leaves less then ten players in each clan and we haven't gotten to the smaller ones.

Guild, Sun Runners, SLK, Human Tribals, East Side Elves.

What's our average across the clans now? 4 or less

How many people does that leave to be independent? This game doesn't flow right without Indies, say what you want.

edit: I think we have so much staff, to cover all the coding changes they want to do. If we end up with a cat race, we know what happened to arm 2.0
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: ghanima on November 04, 2017, 12:22:45 PM
I'm pretty sure peak hours of play sees higher than 30s to 40s. Added to this, while it's true that the general peak isn't as high as it once was, the off peak hours are way more populated than they ever were before. Go back 10 years or so and it was a pretty Americentric game. Now? You wouldn't believe the number of players I've met who live in Asia, to speak nothing of our Aussie and Kiwi players. The quiet hours where the who list generally would say 7 on a good day, I've seen it reach around 25 now! That's nothing to scoff at. So even if the who list doesn't say 70 on a Sunday night at 10pm server, I think the overall number of players isn't quite as low as you may think. Filling all those clans you mentioned doesn't really have anything to do with the highest number of players to be found at 10pm. It has to do with the overall total number of players.

Also, there was a time when Tuluk was nearly as hopping as Allanak. I don't think the population has shrunken a whole lot since those times, only shifted. It's about what people want to play. Someone used the old Field of Dreams quote earlier in the thread of "If you build it, they will come" and it really is true. Make something interesting and people are liable to give it a go. I'm not interested in badmouthing past staff/players but it's just a fact that certain individuals trying to write and rewrite Tuluk into oblivion basically destroyed it. There are ways for it to be undestroyed and made playable once again, and it might not even be as large a task as it sounds (in fact that was always Tuluk's problem from the beginning: being overly complicated and failing to respect the KISS rule).

Alternatively, Tuluk could just be lain to rest once and for all. Whatever the case, it is my belief that some sort of closure is long overdue.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: The Lonely Hunter on November 04, 2017, 03:57:01 PM
Returning Tuluk to the way that it was during Allanaki occupation would be great. You do not need to support any new clans (maybe rebels) and the upkeep is small. The culture itself never had a place in Armageddon, imo. The idea was great but the majority of players couldn't handle it - they have a hard enough time handling Allanaki RP.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: ghanima on November 05, 2017, 01:38:23 AM
Returning Tuluk to the way that it was during Allanaki occupation would be great. You do not need to support any new clans (maybe rebels) and the upkeep is small. The culture itself never had a place in Armageddon, imo. The idea was great but the majority of players couldn't handle it - they have a hard enough time handling Allanaki RP.

I think you do a lot of players a disservice by saying they can't handle Allanaki RP. Allanak isn't exactly the most fleshed out culture to begin with so it's very likely that you just don't like the way they RP rather than they are doing something inappropriate to the setting. Unless you're being completely removed from the game world and trying to turn it into some sort of CareBearMUD with unicorns and rainbows around every corner,  you're probably not getting Allanak wrong.

I agree, however, that returning Tuluk to its pre-liberation form would require little upkeep. The trick there is doing it in such a way that is original and unique. Simply copy/pasting what already happened would feel really cheap. Also....

Wishing no disrespect to current staff, the individuals who ran the Occupation were damn good at it. You can't assume the next set of staff members would be so equally skilled. There are certain characters I believe I could play and do it with gusto and others that I think I would fail miserably at. The same goes for everyone. We all have our strengths and weaknesses. I don't know why Tuluk has been left in limbo for so long or what discussions staff are having on the topic. Maybe no one wants to pick up the project because they don't feel it's their forte.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Fredd on November 05, 2017, 10:45:05 AM
I'm pretty sure peak hours of play sees higher than 30s to 40s. Added to this, while it's true that the general peak isn't as high as it once was, the off peak hours are way more populated than they ever were before. Go back 10 years or so and it was a pretty Americentric game. Now? You wouldn't believe the number of players I've met who live in Asia, to speak nothing of our Aussie and Kiwi players. The quiet hours where the who list generally would say 7 on a good day, I've seen it reach around 25 now! That's nothing to scoff at. So even if the who list doesn't say 70 on a Sunday night at 10pm server, I think the overall number of players isn't quite as low as you may think. Filling all those clans you mentioned doesn't really have anything to do with the highest number of players to be found at 10pm. It has to do with the overall total number of players.


I understand your point. A couple things to consider though:

There are 2-3 different 'peak' times that players play. This is true. But the players of one are not exclusive to the other. There are many that play across all peaks. So these aren't exactly complete pools of fresh players.

I was mostly using the average I see. I'm not taking detailed statistics.  And the math was simple to show an example of what I meant. Opening a whole city, and having to open a second set of branches in clans, and doubling up noble clans.Isn't the best option available. Simply opening 1-2 older options can give people what they seem to want (Places to get away from past friends, so they don't have to see the heartache there death caused, or have to constantly hear about themselves)
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: ghanima on November 05, 2017, 11:06:27 AM
I agree with your sentiments, Fredd. I think reopening Tuluk as is (with all the clans it had originally) would thin things out. Fast! But there are a number of experiments which could be performed to see how they take. One would be opening a specific section of the city and leave the rest in its currently NPC state. Try it for 4 months, see how things go. For example, what if it was 100% for militia PCs only? And what if the sole purpose of this opened aspect of the city was intended to target its enemy, Allanak?

Anyway, I'm just throwing ideas out there, not saying that this must be done. The only thing I think at this point is a definite need is to give Tuluk some sort of closure (by destroying it IC, opening a part of it, or transforming it).
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Aruven on November 05, 2017, 04:39:14 PM
After reading through this thread again with the best of intentions I must say, i'd rather just see the staff decide what happens with Tuluk. I'd honestly just be happy if they released a 'coming soon' story to explain it all, and give some closure to the people who actually roleplay and want to know how the northern saga turns out before it just becomes some kind of Kung Fury sequel. A 'coming soon story' would cover everything, and give future northern rolled PCs the ability to flesh out their character history moving forward.

Additionally, if the staff/playerbase ever bounces back 40-50 people again they can stop running NPC villains and open it to players again. The NPC thing is an option if they just release some stories via staff announcements or something.

What was our playerbase prime time when we had tuluk/allanak open back in the day? 90-100 players? 70-90? I don't remember. But if we're talking about game player depletion at 40-50 it must have been at least double, right?

Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: nauta on November 05, 2017, 04:53:02 PM
What was our playerbase prime time when we had tuluk/allanak open back in the day? 90-100 players? 70-90? I don't remember. But if we're talking about game player depletion at 40-50 it must have been at least double, right?

Tuluk closed in Spring 2015.  You can compare the numbers of unique logins, so, e.g., week 10 (February) 2017 is 197; week 10 (February) 2015: 260.  So it's not double, it's more like (math people fill in the blank).

Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: evilcabbage on November 05, 2017, 05:23:16 PM
it was like a 20% drop, really. we averaged, what, 50-70?

so 20, 30% at the most. not double. not even close.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Riev on November 06, 2017, 09:26:43 AM
After reading through this thread again with the best of intentions I must say, i'd rather just see the staff decide what happens with Tuluk. I'd honestly just be happy if they released a 'coming soon' story to explain it all, and give some closure to the people who actually roleplay and want to know how the northern saga turns out before it just becomes some kind of Kung Fury sequel. A 'coming soon story' would cover everything, and give future northern rolled PCs the ability to flesh out their character history moving forward.

I feel like at least my point, Aruven, is that I want to see staff ACTUALLY DECIDE what happens to Tuluk. Its been years now that we've had to roleplay around an entire culture in the game many of us have known is there. They're a stored Fale noble and we've been trying to throw a proper party for years.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Fredd on November 06, 2017, 10:57:20 AM
After reading through this thread again with the best of intentions I must say, i'd rather just see the staff decide what happens with Tuluk. I'd honestly just be happy if they released a 'coming soon' story to explain it all, and give some closure to the people who actually roleplay and want to know how the northern saga turns out before it just becomes some kind of Kung Fury sequel. A 'coming soon story' would cover everything, and give future northern rolled PCs the ability to flesh out their character history moving forward.

I feel like at least my point, Aruven, is that I want to see staff ACTUALLY DECIDE what happens to Tuluk. Its been years now that we've had to roleplay around an entire culture in the game many of us have known is there. They're a stored Fale noble and we've been trying to throw a proper party for years.

I think we all agree with that.

SOMETHING, ANYTHING, needs to be done.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: evilcabbage on November 06, 2017, 12:38:00 PM
i couldn't give less of a fuck if "anything" gets done with tuluk. i never cared about it, i don't see why everyone is so up in arms that there "has" to be something done with it.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Synthesis on November 06, 2017, 12:38:28 PM
After reading through this thread again with the best of intentions I must say, i'd rather just see the staff decide what happens with Tuluk. I'd honestly just be happy if they released a 'coming soon' story to explain it all, and give some closure to the people who actually roleplay and want to know how the northern saga turns out before it just becomes some kind of Kung Fury sequel. A 'coming soon story' would cover everything, and give future northern rolled PCs the ability to flesh out their character history moving forward.

I feel like at least my point, Aruven, is that I want to see staff ACTUALLY DECIDE what happens to Tuluk. Its been years now that we've had to roleplay around an entire culture in the game many of us have known is there. They're a stored Fale noble and we've been trying to throw a proper party for years.

I think we all agree with that.

SOMETHING, ANYTHING, needs to be done.

I don't care much about Tuluk--one way or another.  Never did, really.  It could stay there as a black box forever and it wouldn't bother me.

On second thought...forever is a long time.  I'll leave open the possibility that it could eventually bother me, but it seems unlikely at the moment.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: sleepyhead on November 06, 2017, 12:48:26 PM
I'm up in arms because (some) PCs can go to Tuluk but you can't know anything about what they saw. That is just awkward as hell.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: chrisdcoulombe on November 06, 2017, 12:50:03 PM
I'm opening a cracker factory in Tuluk...
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: WarriorPoet on November 06, 2017, 04:32:30 PM
Everyone agrees we need more players.

Recruiting drive, pls.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Cind on November 11, 2017, 05:36:17 AM
You could just open the Legions and one noble house to begin with. A thinking soldier presence would be needed to keep the place from being overrun with pickpockets and 'naki spies who have no fear, and would add an opposition to Allanak again. The noble house would bring a sense of completeness to the city. You could choose whether your Templars will have support or not (be from the active noble house) if you're interested in hard mode.

You don't need three noble houses open to create conflict. People will find it if you only give them one or two clans to join. Oh they'll find it, be like white on rice.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Arabian Nights on November 17, 2017, 12:59:51 PM
I played some during the occupation of Tuluk and I played later on when it was its own. I enjoyed both. I have enjoyed playing in Allanak, Luir's, Red Storm, tribals, and Tuluk. To tell the truth, I understand wanting to consolidate the playerbase, but I am saddened to see Tuluk is no longer an option. I liked to change back and forth with my characters, avoiding those I may have recently been involved with in one area and avoiding plots I may have already been involved with. It helped to make each character a new and different experience from the previous. I hope it is reopened in some form one day.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: satine on November 17, 2017, 01:16:57 PM
This could be an overly simple solution, but why not just start rumors of some horrible epidemic in tuluk? a plague?
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Riev on November 17, 2017, 02:05:25 PM
This could be an overly simple solution, but why not just start rumors of some horrible epidemic in tuluk? a plague?

I feel like the issue with that is simply that its something we COULD verify or not, in game, but the area itself is just closed.

We just don't know whats going on, despite being told that "virtually, people can enter and exit the city no problem".
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: satine on November 17, 2017, 03:06:24 PM
if the city is quarantined, then people wouldn't be able to go in or out, and they wouldn't want to.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Riev on November 17, 2017, 03:11:08 PM
if the city is quarantined, then people wouldn't be able to go in or out, and they wouldn't want to.

It'd be a nice start, I agree, but I don't think if someone said "this entire civilized city has a dangerous disease inside and nobody can go in or out" that people WOULDN'T want to confirm or deny it.

Though, that kind of mishap in Tuluk DOES have precedent. I'm lookin' at YOU, Dasari.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: theexecutioner.01 on November 19, 2017, 10:47:05 AM
Or, I guess, just close Allanak to play and open Tuluk -- I'm one of those who didn't find it /that/ weird of a place in terms of docs.  The only problem I had with it was that it was pretty sparsely populated by PCs.

I also think that closing Allanak and opening Tuluk is a good idea, 'cuz I am starting to like Tuluk. But, Allanak is more populated by PCs. I think that closing Allanak would take a lot of work for the staff.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: evilcabbage on November 19, 2017, 11:08:08 AM
closing allanak would probably almost literally end the game.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: ghanima on November 19, 2017, 11:46:38 AM
closing allanak would probably almost literally end the game.

Yup. Definitely.

Any time someone proposes closing Allanak I think to myself ok either a) this person just doesn't know, or b) they have a self destructive streak.

I might even go so far as to say this was one main reason Arm 2 never came to fruition. It's good to shake things up, remove some things and add others, but tearing the entire foundation out is just asking for ruin.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: The Lonely Hunter on November 22, 2017, 11:35:04 AM
Just because you don't know of a story that doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't exist. If it does (regarding Tuluk or anything else) you are not entitled to know what it is for some reason. Most people are not all-knowing but many like to presume that they are.

Allanak /is/ the base of Armageddon. It is the foundation. To close Allanak would cause further damage to the already fractured base of the world that we all enjoy. I believe that many of those fractures come from people who did read the Tuluki docs and played mostly there but came to Allanak when it closed and didn't bother assimilating to the new city's culture. I digress.

New-Tuluk was a neat idea but not very fitting with the overall theme of Zalanthas, imo. I believe that it failed, in part, because the documents were often misinterpreted. A neat idea but we failed to pull it off.

I think new-Tuluk closing was the best thing to happen - and it opening in the first place was one of the worst. Tuluk during Allanak occupation was a neat niche place.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: GithMaster on November 22, 2017, 12:41:15 PM
Turn Tuluk into the legitimate bad guys / threat. Maybe have some elements escape/get incorporated into the merchant houses. Have one die hard wandering tribe of rebels against what Tuluk had become.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Harmless on November 24, 2017, 11:32:45 AM
When Tuluk was closed there was not unanimous agreement among the players that it "failed," just to clarify that. A lot of us were content with Tuluk and wanted to see how much further it would devolve into totalitarianism in its final months. I enjoyed having played a character who was exiled during that period. I enjoyed playing a gemmed magicker after that who fought with Tuluk forces and succumbed to a psionic attack. There were things happening. It was not dead.

The staff at the time felt it should be closed. Whether or not Tuluk was a failure at all is a complex question with no definite answer.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Rokal on November 24, 2017, 03:51:07 PM
When Tuluk was closed there was not unanimous agreement among the players that it "failed," just to clarify that. A lot of us were content with Tuluk and wanted to see how much further it would devolve into totalitarianism in its final months. I enjoyed having played a character who was exiled during that period. I enjoyed playing a gemmed magicker after that who fought with Tuluk forces and succumbed to a psionic attack. There were things happening. It was not dead.

The staff at the time felt it should be closed. Whether or not Tuluk was a failure at all is a complex question with no definite answer.
This is how I feel, and why I am excited for the day the staff do bring Tuluk back.

it doesnt need t obe nuked off the face of zalanthas, and I feel those that are saying that aren't looking past the exterior.

Tuluk was my arm introduction. My first character was there. I had a blast, and it was by far the best experience ever that kept me playing the game, and i was recommended by helpers to start in allanak, yet I still went to Tuluk.

I didn't regret it.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: deskoft on November 24, 2017, 05:02:46 PM
Tuluk was incredible. I wish to see it back someday, because it is always going to remain the place which hooked me for sure into the game back then. I just don't know how it'd work with the current population. Sure, having Tuluk and Allanak gives the game world a distinctive richness of incidents, conflicts and scenarios -- but we have a lower population now than we had back then. Things were quite different.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Evilone on January 31, 2018, 08:49:54 AM
If only you had of been successful with those rats and wiped out Allanak with plague... I blame Flaire for not securing our victory!!! 😉
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: deskoft on January 31, 2018, 03:00:12 PM
ARGH!  :'(
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Veselka on February 01, 2018, 11:20:49 AM
I would argue that we don't have a lower population, but Staff does appear to be more efficient with only one 'Realm' open for play. I must say I much rather prefer having 'One Branch' in each Merchant House, and 'One Branch' in the T'zai Byn, for instance. The hunting branches being closed also turned out to be a bonus, IMHO. From what i've seen in game, I don't think it would be outlandish for these 'One Branches' to cover both the North and South -- The Byn does it currently, and while it creates more of a time suck to travel great distances or stay in inconvenient places, it's doable. So basically, if Tuluk were to re-open, I don't think it would require re-opening 'Northern Operations' in Kurac, Kadius, Salarr, and the Byn. People should just travel more, through the more dangerous wastes, to reach their destination and client base.

However, I truly do wish there were Two sets of Nobility and Templars and that sort of inter-continental cold war.

That being said, the infighting always appears to be real in Allanak, and no one seems like fast and furious friends, which always bugged me about Tuluk -- Even if people were really enemies behind each other's back, there was always an atmosphere of 'Everything's Fine!". Which was creepy in one lens, but through another, sort of boring.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Riev on February 01, 2018, 02:21:45 PM
For the record, you can't "argue" for or against something as simple as "population numbers". We currently average about 180 a week. Last year we averaged 200 a week. The year before that, we had 230 a week.

Have your opinions, but "lower population" isn't an argument.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Veselka on February 01, 2018, 05:56:24 PM
For the record, you can't "argue" for or against something as simple as "population numbers". We currently average about 180 a week. Last year we averaged 200 a week. The year before that, we had 230 a week.

Have your opinions, but "lower population" isn't an argument.

It's confusing though, because does that necessarily translate to active playerbase, or more/less people connecting, such as newbie accounts that never make it into the game, and so on?

I preferred the numbers that Nyr was doing, that showed the people that actually stuck around and played, not just made an account and connected.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Delirium on February 01, 2018, 06:00:01 PM
Adding neat new stuff brings back people and draws in new ones.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: chrisdcoulombe on February 01, 2018, 06:02:26 PM
Tuluk is in the way of the grass lands.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Cabooze on February 02, 2018, 01:10:37 AM
Make some sort of catastrophe happen in Tuluk! I want to venture into the crater of Tuluk, with a mix of crumbling buildings as well as tunneling caves that reveal what was once under-tuluk.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: BadSkeelz on February 02, 2018, 02:13:56 AM
If we're not going to blow it up (the one sane solution) we need to have a staffer who is full-time dedicated to spawning northern troops and fucking with the south.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Hauwke on February 02, 2018, 02:46:04 AM
enter command: Spawn mob of Tuluki soldiers +1 ×100
enter command:move x100 mob of Tuluki soldiers +1 to room; Outside the Merchants gate of Allanak.
enter command: order mob of Tuluki soldiers emote A loud clattering comes from down the rough road as @ comes marching along, spears and maces in hand ready to fight.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: ShaLeah on February 02, 2018, 09:14:14 AM
Some day the Highlord will rightfully claim what is his. Again.
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: chrisdcoulombe on February 02, 2018, 11:17:15 AM
Some day the Highlord will rightfully claim what is his. Again.

Tek Yeah
Title: Re: What to do with Tuluk
Post by: Tuannon on February 03, 2018, 06:43:22 AM
I like it being the mysterious story line factory it is right now. While I'm kind of underwhelmed with what happened to the political types since Tuluk closed, the recent doings and happenings outside of Allanak have kind of brought a similar but different feel to it.