What makes a good Armageddon villain?
Go.
.
A fine balance, being effective without ruining everyone's fun.
A renewed topic, but one I think merits an effective re-post of what I've said before.
The best villains are not mustachioed cliches, or shallow, one-dimensional foils of conflict. The best villains, the villains I love playing and playing around, are complex, real, visceral characters who have had a life path that takes them into conflict with others. In my opinion: ubiquitous, all-consuming villainous behavior is boring and fit for a light novel and unworthy of investment. But when characters have their paths cross and the resolution is through conflict, you have something worth being involved in.
Quote from: Refugee on July 24, 2017, 06:16:48 PM
A fine balance, being effective without ruining everyone's fun.
Strong or well-connected enough that they can't be easily killed, while also possessing the judgment and restraint to not run around killing anyone mildly opposed to them.
Master in steal.
More seriously, someone that can dance the 'game' part of the game so as to include staff & different clans.
But more generally, to second Kyros's point, Zalanthas doesn't really have villains (except maybe sorcerors?) just as it doesn't really have heroes.
Someone who doesn't think they are a villain, but whose lifestyle, choices, personality, and circumstances have led them to do terrible things that put them at odds with many other players.
Nobody is the villain in their own story.
To me everyone I meet seems like they could be a villain. I'm finding heroes sorely lacking, thankfully.
Quote from: LauraMars on July 24, 2017, 07:31:07 PM
Someone who doesn't think they are a villain, but whose lifestyle, choices, personality, and circumstances have led them to do terrible things that put them at odds with many other players.
Nobody is the villain in their own story.
Came here to say this.
My opinion for making a "good" villain is; don't resolve every conflict with death. Give someone a reason to /hate/ your character. Destroy them via every means necessary; save for ending their life.
Be the henchman of the change you want to see.
In roleplaying in general, I'd say the best kind of villains are the ones who do all right wrong things for the right reasons, or all right right things for the wrong reasons, and slide in and between the two.
Evil raider saves a life? They better damn well have the 'sid to pay for it.
Arm captain beating up that elf? Well, there had been an evil elf murderer lately, so you can never be to sure.
Things like that.
Oh, and if you have power:
Abuse it in a way that includes other players in your fun. I've had more then one awesome scene that had be OOCly fear for my character's life, and which I enjoyed immensely.
OOC fear best fear. When I see other guys dropping dead around me I know shit just got real.
The best moments I have ever had, are the ones where I havent got a clue if I am going to survive or not and its entirely out of my hands and even out of most other player's hands.
Best arm villians have the skills to elude capture, these are the best because they survive a week after they start causing issues and everyone decides to kill them.
The best villains are the ones played by Staff or heavily monitored and supported by staff.
I have always enjoyed good RPT PvE in Arm. And the times there's an antagonistic Clan around that is staff supported (gith, red fangs, Guild) they are usually the ones putting out exciting stories.
My experiences with other Players trying to play villians or me myself trying to play a villian is usually bad. You die somewhere and you are never heard about again or someone is PK'd in quick, brutal, unsatisfying ways.
There is a really good villain in game right now, find out ic.
There are no villains in armageddon. Not in the literary sense. There are no character arcs, there are no climaxes there is no rising tension, there are no heroes. Everyone in Armageddon is the villain and hero of their own story.
Armageddon just has axes of conflict.
Tribe vs City
Magicker vs Templar
House vs House
Crime vs "Law"
North vs South
Player vs Player
You can pick an axis and play it to the hilt. Draw allies to your side and attack enemies. And this is all the "Villain" discussion amounts to.
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on July 28, 2017, 02:51:05 PM
The best villains are the ones played by Staff or heavily monitored and supported by staff.
I have always enjoyed good RPT PvE in Arm. And the times there's an antagonistic Clan around that is staff supported (gith, red fangs, Guild) they are usually the ones putting out exciting stories.
My experiences with other Players trying to play villians or me myself trying to play a villian is usually bad. You die somewhere and you are never heard about again or someone is PK'd in quick, brutal, unsatisfying ways.
This is really the problem with Armageddon. It doesn't support conflict. Players will kill you for minor interpersonal tension or completely made up reasons that don't mesh with the gameworld; regardless of wheter or not you're friend or enemy. Some of the axes don't get the staff support they need for extended conflict while some do. And trying to play a character that even tries to roleplay along these lines is a massive excercise in frustration and disappointment.
Quote from: Miradus on July 24, 2017, 05:52:46 PM
What makes a good Armageddon villain?
Go.
Pragmatism and ruthlessness.
Boots.
QuoteNobody is the villain in their own story.
This is how I prefer to play my characters. Another way of saying it, is that everyone is a villain to someone else. Unless you're boring. XD
QuoteAnd the times there's an antagonistic Clan around that is staff supported (gith, red fangs, Guild) they are usually the ones putting out exciting stories.
Are you sure they are staff supported?
When I've played desert elves or Guild, the clan has never been particularly strongly supported and hasn't been pushing to instigate action. You don't see staff putting up role calls for the Guild.
City elf clans have been some of the best at stirring up interesting conflict in my experience, altho usually ends pretty quickly for me...
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on July 28, 2017, 02:51:05 PM
... And the times there's an antagonistic Clan around that is staff supported (gith, red fangs, Guild) they are usually the ones putting out exciting stories.
Red Fangs weren't staff supported until a small group of very dedicated players managed to get it off the ground.
Quote from: Kankfly on August 07, 2017, 05:06:56 AM
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on July 28, 2017, 02:51:05 PM
... And the times there's an antagonistic Clan around that is staff supported (gith, red fangs, Guild) they are usually the ones putting out exciting stories.
Red Fangs weren't staff supported until a small group of very dedicated players managed to get it off the ground.
That. 100% that.
Can't speak for the Guild or the giths but for Red Fangs yes it took a while and a lot of hard effort before things started to happen. Having said that, the staff at the time were really supportive but things were definitely not handed to RF on a silver platter either from the get go. Red Fangs were scattered, no place of their own except for one tiny little tent shop in the Desert Outpost. They ended up setting up temporary tents and hiding spots under a certain tunnel in a certain canyon somewhere.
Red Fangs were universally hated by all PCs at the time, there was literally a "kill on sight" sign painted over every Fang PC that went IG (including brand new PCs no matter how new they were - target practise especially for the SLK at the time) and the docs were exceedingly limited. It took a fair bit of work and extensive RP between the group of surviving Fangs and their IC relationship with other PCs around at the time to flesh out the tribal mentality before things started to happen.
A lot of Fangs died to make Red Fang happen. ;D
Someone who spends ages overthinking personality, background, and everything else, when they could play someone who just happens to wants things and doesn't care.
For me, I'd rather not see "villains" at all but instead, antagonists. A villain, to me, is a cartoon construct. Not believable at all, and I try to avoid dealing with those when I come across them in the game.
An antagonist though - Hasan is a good example of that. So was Quick. Compare to LoTR Gollum/Smeagle. Smeagle wasn't a villain. He was an antagonist with a tragic story that led to his place in the world. A good antagonist will have *something* about him/her that makes you wish you could like them. Or feel sorry for them even while chasing after them in the desert. Or being chased and hunted down by them. Maybe you think - why is he so horrible - he's SO charismatic and clever if he wasn't so corrupt I'd totally hit it. Or maybe someone who is SOOOO corrupt, that they corrupt your PC instead and create a sense of self-loathing in your character. THAT - to me - is a good antagonist.
I once had a brave, noble Recruit in the Arm who had a superior that commit a crime against a noble and fled.
My character initially thought, 'this is an Arm matter, we'll keep it in the arm and solve it.'
He was then offered FIFTY LARGE by a certain wink wink nudge nudge nobleman to have him return to the city and killed.
In a split second he went from honest and true man to absolute savage, so he did this.
He had fled all the way to Luirs, and therefore was out of his jurisdiction, so he had to bring the man to him.
So he took this superior's girlfriend, and convinced her that if she worked with him, she'd suffer no consequences.
Subsequently, he began waying this superior, and telling him that the nobleman was holding his girlfriend hostage. That he needed to come turn himself in to Allanak.
Meanwhile, we organized a group with the nobleman to strike this man down. I did it under the guise that I was reasonably dealing with a traitor.
The plan couldn't have gone better.
The girlfriend came with us, held 'firmly' by one of the nobleman's goons.
They were allowed to speak briefly.
Then, of his own volition, he threw himself into the spike pit at Allanak's gates at the promise of his beloved's safety.
I had killed a man without swinging a single strike by using sheer manipulation and cohersion, and won myself 50 large.
This character later went on to become a champion of the arena, a corporal in the Arm, and absolute madman until he was killed by a combo of firepools and angry mobs about five years later.
Being a 'villain' is a spur of the moment thing, sometimes. He went on to be a relatively plotless person, but that amount of money makes a good man weak. Enough to spend the rest of his life living relatively easily, especially when he gives the Templar a cut of it but claim he lost some of their cut 'foolishly' putting some into the bank and spreading the wealth among his clanmates to make it look like his reward was far less, while keeping a massive stash in multiple locations so that he would never, ever be for want again.
Remember that good people can do bad things, and bad people can do good things.
I often play antagonists, but they are many times heroes of their own story, or just doing what they must, even if this puts them into conflict with other groups.
I don't think I have ever seen a villain, per se.
Simply make a pc with personality, hopes, and dreams. Then play that role as best you can.
Most of the Villains I have played, were heroes to whatever faction they were in. It was everyone else that thought they were a villain.