I didn't see a thread for this and don't want to start a new one for it if there is one.
I think the Stable code needs re-worked. I like that you can't just spam your mount in and out, but you should be able to put your animal in a dusk, get them out at dawn and they should be rested.
I idea'd a similar thing. They should be as rested as they would be if you kept them out and 'rest'ed them.
I would like to think it would be even faster, Its ideal conditions like if we are sitting in a tavern. Their movement points should shoot up at an accelerated rate. Not instantaneous like before, but faster than if they were resting outside of the stable.
Failing that, I think dropping it to 2 hours (20 minutes) would be more realistic & ideal for playability as well.
I think it's pretty swell! Only change I"d dig was if they can figure out how to have the mount rest naturally while stabled so you can get it out halfway rested or whatever.
I don't think there should be an exact time between "however it was when you put it in" and "x minutes later."
What happens if you don't know what time it was when you stabled it - and didn't happen to catch the time? Now you have to wait 30 minutes - from when, exactly? Maybe you just flat out forget to check the time on your computer monitor, because you're too busy having fun roleplaying. Five, maybe six, maybe 10, maybe who the hell knows how many minutes later, you realize you didn't check. Now you're fucked. If you take it out ONE minute too early - you have to start the timer all over again. Your mount is now just as exhausted as it was 19 or 29 minutes ago.
A graduated, but accelerated rest period in the stables is ideal - if your erdlu is "exhausted" and would normally require 20 minutes to rest in a shaded outdoor area without any sandstorms - then stabling him will make it take only 10 minutes. If you take him out at 5 minutes, he's now halfway rested.
A graduated rest time would be good (i.e. If you take it out halfway through, it's halfway or more-than-halfway rested). However, I'm not really in favor of altogether shortening the period by any large amount, just because I view it as a way to prevent the 'whole trip in one go' thing, with possibilities for interruption, which just...doesn't really happen if you can stable it for just late at night and before dawn and be on your way again.
So in combination with the rest time being 'interruptible', I'd rather see a variance to the 'ideal' duration that is currently hard-set. Sometimes it takes longer. Sometimes it takes shorter. That would be best for the realism part, and I guess I just don't find anything unplayable about the idea of beasts of burden actually being burdened enough that the player has to consider it when traveling long distances (i.e. Across the known).
I like the new stable code a whole lot.
Don't get me wrong, I love this change. But the hard "exact 30 minutes" is a little awkward at times, especially when, as mentioned, if you'd simply idled and waited with it rested, you'd have been fine.
That's why I thought it might be a great compromise to have them slowly recuperate in the stables, if that is a coded possibility. If it isn't possible, 20 minutes in a sheltered stable seems it should be enough.
Not sure it'd be possible, but it seems like an easy fix, assuming the code can keep track of time elapsed.
It'd basically be information stored on the mount ticket:
1. Mount type
2. Stamina when stabled
3. Time stabled
Then a global variable for each mount type: expected stamina regen per unit time.
Then when you offer ticket, it generates time elapsed from current time - time stabled, then multiplies time elapsed by expected stamina regen per unit time for the mount type, then adds that to stamina when stabled, ignoring stamina that goes above the mount's current max.
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It would, and that's the part that's truly infuriating.
Why be infuriated by it? It's a new code addition, things like these occasionally have wrinkles that come out in playtesting. Take a deep breath, and please remember to be polite and constructive on the GDB.
I think its perfectly fine to be infuriated by it, in its current incarnation. Players have less and less time to play, and if you were banking on having timed your mount retrieval right, only to find out you basically wasted 30minutes, it can BE infuriating.
I don't think Goose dislikes the change, just the fact that pulling out a mount that is still exhausted despite having been stabled for almost 2 full in game hours can be a real crimp on time.
It doesn't affect me, because I rarely play in outdoor combat roles anymore, however if it did, I would be infuriated too. Hopefully the coders have an idea.
Think about it this way:
A-
There are 10 minutes an IG hour.
B-
There is 1) dusk, 2) late at night, 3) before dawn, and 4) dawn.
C-
Therfore, it logically follows that to be able to ride out at dawn, you have to stable your mount in the late afternoon (so it's stabled the entire dusk period), or you can't ride out until early morning.
My thoughts-
When I play hunters, I tend to come in at dusk, and ride out at dawn, so I understand the frustration. I think 20 or even 25 minutes would satisfy the purpose of the code (preventing immediate mount regen) without throwing normal people's schedules for a loop.
Quote from: valeria on July 21, 2017, 03:49:31 PM
Think about it this way:
A-
There are 10 minutes an IG hour.
B-
There is 1) dusk, 2) late at night, 3) before dawn, and 4) dawn.
C-
Therfore, it logically follows that to be able to ride out at dawn, you have to stable your mount in the late afternoon (so it's stabled the entire dusk period), or you can't ride out until early morning.
My thoughts-
When I play hunters, I tend to come in at dusk, and ride out at dawn, so I understand the frustration. I think 20 or even 25 minutes would satisfy the purpose of the code (preventing immediate mount regen) without throwing normal people's schedules for a loop.
Each of those timeframes is a 10-minute period of time. If you stable your mount at dusk, you might be stabling it within the first minute after the "chime" or within the tenth minute. If your mind is on the RP and not on your computer's clock, you will have to just hope for the best, OR just always add another 10 minutes onto the already 30-minute wait time JUST IN CASE. Because if you are only 20 SECONDS too soon - you will have to wait another 30 minutes.
Exactly.
Edit to add: that's why I said you'd have to stable at "late afternoon" to safely take it out at dawn. So it's in there a definite 30 minutes (dusk, late night, before dawn). Otherwise, if you stable at dusk, you can't safely take it out until early morning (so it's there from late night, before dawn, and dawn).
Quote from: valeria on July 21, 2017, 03:54:28 PM
Exactly.
Edit to add: that's why I said you'd have to stable at "late afternoon" to safely take it out at dawn. So it's in there a definite 30 minutes (dusk, late night, before dawn). Otherwise, if you stable at dusk, you can't safely take it out until early morning (so it's there from late night, before dawn, and dawn).
That's why I don't like this particular iteration of the change, at all. Some of us only play for 2 hours total - to have to spend 1/4 of it waiting for your mount to rest - make playing someone who travels a less desireable option. Personally I prefer to rest my mount before it ever gets too tired to "need" stabling - but that isn't always possible (especially if you're in a group and someone else is leading).
Maybe have it tick up a 3rd of the total endurance pool every 10 minutes? Or just have them recover at a normal rate while in the stables, and have stables just function as a way for players to safely leave their mounts somewhere, and nothing else.
If we did the later, I'd say there'd be a case to be made for allowing packed mounts to be stored. Might be a good thing.
QuoteIf we did the later, I'd say there'd be a case to be made for allowing packed mounts to be stored. Might be a good thing.
I can be mistaken, but I believe this would require some serious legwork, codewise. I don't know the specifics but the behavior with renting mounts and retrieving them leads me to believe it might be hard to attach the inventory to them.
As far as the rest of it...I'd always accepted it under the -assumption- that the original intent was to make cross-world travel less accessible and a bit more time-consuming/vulnerable. With that in mind, I didn't think travel convenience was exactly the gist of it; if it was only to combat the 'rent kank;offer ticket' instant rest, then the delay would have been put far shorter to begin with, is my line of thought. So thoughts like this:
QuoteSome of us only play for 2 hours total - to have to spend 1/4 of it waiting for your mount to rest - make playing someone who travels a less desireable option.
...are kind of in keeping with what I thought the original intent was. That is, to make traveling a bit more of an ordeal, rather than a free-ranging I-can-go-anywhere-anytime thing. That's all under that first assumption, though.
And no, that's not me picking on you, Lizzie, that's just me using it as the perfect statement of what I thought this change was likely put in to foster, which was multiple-day travel times and less convenience along free wandering. If I'm wrong in that, whoops, I misinterpreted the change.
Edited to add: Still good with partial resting if the time 'limit' isn't reached. Just don't think the duration of it overall needs shortening.
Yes it does encourage that Armaddict - but it also hm - here's a hypothetical, one that touches on what I'm talking about, that isn't far-fetched because something similar might have happened recently, or happens often, to either me or others (or both):
You're in the Byn. You're on contract to get someone from Allanak to Morin's. You get around halfway to Luir's, and you're ambushed by a pack of raptors. You have to retreat - or your contracted charge gets scared and retreats - and now you have to ride around in a sandstorm trying to find him. Meanwhile - your mounts are getting more and more tired - and then boom - you run into a pack of gith. You haven't even gotten to Luir's yet, and it's already been a RL hour since you left. It's almost dark, and your mounts are exhausted and too tired to make it to Luir's. So you camp out overnight in tents - which is great for you, not so great for the mounts. In the morning, you get up, and your mounts are all "tired" instead of "exhausted." So you know that even though you've been out for almost two RL hours, there's no way you're going to get your contract to Morins within a reasonable PLAYABLE amount of time.
This isn't a riding expedition, or an adventure, or exploration. This is just following an established trade route, half of which occurs on an actual coded road.
It should't take two RL days' worth of RPTs to do this, but by the time your mounts are finished with their half hour of stabling, it's almost late afternoon the next game-day, and too late to *start* out on the rest of the trip. So you now have to wait for a third hour. Which is great except - half your crew has to log out for the night in 20 minutes, and have already been logged in for at least the 2 hours to do this trip, plus however long they were logged in before they started the trip.
This is unreasonable. and it's not an unheard of situation to be in, and the new stable code makes this situation even more difficult.
Thanks you for the ideas. We are in discussion on how to balance this better.
Quote from: Lizzie on July 21, 2017, 05:20:25 PM
You're in the Byn. You're on contract to get someone from Allanak to Morin's. You get around halfway to Luir's, and you're ambushed by a pack of raptors. You have to retreat - or your contracted charge gets scared and retreats - and now you have to ride around in a sandstorm trying to find him. Meanwhile - your mounts are getting more and more tired - and then boom - you run into a pack of gith. You haven't even gotten to Luir's yet, and it's already been a RL hour since you left. It's almost dark, and your mounts are exhausted and too tired to make it to Luir's. So you camp out overnight in tents - which is great for you, not so great for the mounts. In the morning, you get up, and your mounts are all "tired" instead of "exhausted." So you know that even though you've been out for almost two RL hours, there's no way you're going to get your contract to Morins within a reasonable PLAYABLE amount of time.
This isn't a riding expedition, or an adventure, or exploration. This is just following an established trade route, half of which occurs on an actual coded road.
It should't take two RL days' worth of RPTs to do this, but by the time your mounts are finished with their half hour of stabling, it's almost late afternoon the next game-day, and too late to *start* out on the rest of the trip. So you now have to wait for a third hour. Which is great except - half your crew has to log out for the night in 20 minutes, and have already been logged in for at least the 2 hours to do this trip, plus however long they were logged in before they started the trip.
This is unreasonable. and it's not an unheard of situation to be in, and the new stable code makes this situation even more difficult.
This kind of thing happens from time to time. The weather messing up best laid plans isn't going to go away after all it's part of Armageddon's charm right?!
In my opinion, in this case the Byn would be on the hook to keep a set of fresh mounts in Luir's stable so they could, if they wanted to, pony-express their client up to the Grey. That both solves the OOC timing issue while addressing the fact that you can't instant rest a mount by typing 'rent' then 'offer'.
That said, we are looking into a bit better balance than a flat 3 IC hours. Thanks.
ITT: T'zai Byn keeps a herd of Erdlu waiting in Luir's to Fast-track clients up to Morin's within an hour.
I'd theorize it was more to prevent abuse of "respawning" mounts instantaneously more than anything else.
But only staff knows, so I'd hesitate to put words and intentions into their mouths.
Wise man say "Ride often; own two mounts"
Can't afford it? Life is hard
Did a little more testing. I put a standard mount with default endurance in a stable. I rested the mount and knocked their stamina down to .05% of their maximum stamina. I then checked back exactly 30 minutes to the second later and they had recovered 64.4% of their stamina.
It's still faster to rest them in the stables than not in the stables but we are discussing ways to make it less binary for realism.
Quote from: Nathvaan on July 21, 2017, 07:28:51 PM
Did a little more testing. I put a standard mount with default endurance in a stable. I rested the mount and knocked their stamina down to .05% of their maximum stamina. I then checked back exactly 30 minutes to the second later and they had recovered 64.4% of their stamina.
It's still faster to rest them in the stables than not in the stables but we are discussing ways to make it less binary for realism.
Anecdotal data here - no idea if there's truth to it or not.
My experience - is that a mount brought down to "very tired" or "exhausted" or "completely exhausted" will take longer to recover 1 "notch" than a mount at tired or weary. In other words -
A "tired" mount might take only 7 minutes in a specific location to bump up one notch to "getting tired."
A "very tired" mount would take 10 minutes in the same location to bump up one notch to "tired."
Again - that's just anecdotal but my experience has been consistent throughout the years.
Edited to note: the timing isn't exact, I never counted the actual number of minutes. It's just always taken "longer" with "longer" being "anything more than usual, however long that happens to be."
Quote from: Lizzie on July 21, 2017, 08:13:00 PM
Quote from: Nathvaan on July 21, 2017, 07:28:51 PM
Did a little more testing. I put a standard mount with default endurance in a stable. I rested the mount and knocked their stamina down to .05% of their maximum stamina. I then checked back exactly 30 minutes to the second later and they had recovered 64.4% of their stamina.
It's still faster to rest them in the stables than not in the stables but we are discussing ways to make it less binary for realism.
Anecdotal data here - no idea if there's truth to it or not.
My experience - is that a mount brought down to "very tired" or "exhausted" or "completely exhausted" will take longer to recover 1 "notch" than a mount at tired or weary. In other words -
A "tired" mount might take only 7 minutes in a specific location to bump up one notch to "getting tired."
A "very tired" mount would take 10 minutes in the same location to bump up one notch to "tired."
Again - that's just anecdotal but my experience has been consistent throughout the years.
Edited to note: the timing isn't exact, I never counted the actual number of minutes. It's just always taken "longer" with "longer" being "anything more than usual, however long that happens to be."
I can totally see where you are coming from here. I didn't really have a good feel for the timing until testing for this change either. From a category perspective (exhausted, very tired etc) it can feel like the timing is a bit different but I can assure you all that I watched the actual stamina points to see how they regenerated over 30 mins in ideal conditions (mount resting, inside, in a stable). This means that 30 mins in the stable is actually faster from near 0 stamina to 100% than it would be just resting the mount. Also one thing to keep in mind is if your mount is exhausted, it probably isn't actually at 0 stamina just yet but might be close.
For realism and play-ability we are looking at ways to make it give proper credit for stabled time even if you didn't wait to get your mount out after exactly 30 RL minutes. Stay tuned.
Hooray
Quote from: Nathvaan on July 21, 2017, 08:42:16 PM
Quote from: Lizzie on July 21, 2017, 08:13:00 PM
Quote from: Nathvaan on July 21, 2017, 07:28:51 PM
Did a little more testing. I put a standard mount with default endurance in a stable. I rested the mount and knocked their stamina down to .05% of their maximum stamina. I then checked back exactly 30 minutes to the second later and they had recovered 64.4% of their stamina.
It's still faster to rest them in the stables than not in the stables but we are discussing ways to make it less binary for realism.
Anecdotal data here - no idea if there's truth to it or not.
My experience - is that a mount brought down to "very tired" or "exhausted" or "completely exhausted" will take longer to recover 1 "notch" than a mount at tired or weary. In other words -
A "tired" mount might take only 7 minutes in a specific location to bump up one notch to "getting tired."
A "very tired" mount would take 10 minutes in the same location to bump up one notch to "tired."
Again - that's just anecdotal but my experience has been consistent throughout the years.
Edited to note: the timing isn't exact, I never counted the actual number of minutes. It's just always taken "longer" with "longer" being "anything more than usual, however long that happens to be."
I can totally see where you are coming from here. I didn't really have a good feel for the timing until testing for this change either. From a category perspective (exhausted, very tired etc) it can feel like the timing is a bit different but I can assure you all that I watched the actual stamina points to see how they regenerated over 30 mins in ideal conditions (mount resting, inside, in a stable). This means that 30 mins in the stable is actually faster from near 0 stamina to 100% than it would be just resting the mount. Also one thing to keep in mind is if your mount is exhausted, it probably isn't actually at 0 stamina just yet but might be close.
For realism and play-ability we are looking at ways to make it give proper credit for stabled time even if you didn't wait to get your mount out after exactly 30 RL minutes. Stay tuned.
My hero! (I still love the rest of you please don't dock my karma).
This is now in place. It still takes 30 RL mins to fully regen but now it will give the mount the correct stamina regen based on how many minutes have passed since they were stabled.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/Ip4GsPOz61ag0/giphy.gif)
Thats awesome.
(https://68.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7fx34KaJE1qii6tmo1_250.gif)
There was on major bug already patched in to the game. I am not 100% convinced it is totally bug free though. Please feel free to wish up or put in a request if something is amiss, especially if your recently un-stabled mount is completely out of stamina. Thanks!
I haven't had a chance to test this yet but +1!
I believe I have the bug fixed and it should go in tomorrow morning. This should fix all the cases where an older mount ticket is used and the mount comes out extremely exhausted. If it still happens to you after tomorrow morning's reboot, please file a game bug request and we'll have a look!