Armageddon General Discussion Board

I was just thinking... I know that diamonds come in a few different colors and though that perhaps it would be a neat addition to the game to add a couple of these colors as a -rare- variant when looking for gemstones. Where it's clear they're diamond, but it has a touch of a certain color. What do you think?

I would love a one in a thousand chance, ie most likely, never for most grebbers,  of finding something rare like that.

They would be hella good for mc's!

Quote from: Jihelu on March 13, 2017, 04:12:04 AM
They would be hella good for mc's!

This is along the lines of what I was thinking! :D

I'm not sure what differently colored gems would add to the game - we already have plenty of underused gems with too few available-to-all crafting recipes for them. I'd love to see super duper rare forage finds of any kind, though. Imagine the plots set in motion by some random grebber stumbling across a small copper deposit.  ;D

Question is, how many people RL would even know the difference between an amethyst and a purple diamond?

Now how many characters would also know that?

>value diamond.ring

It appears to be made mostly of cubic zirconia
Its value is 1 sid.

>change objective Kill Amos the Jeweler

Quote from: Hauwke on March 13, 2017, 05:02:12 PM
Question is, how many people RL would even know the difference between an amethyst and a purple diamond?

Now how many characters would also know that?

Master jewelers would probably be able to identify "Hey, this isn't normal"

Wouldn't it be nuts if the items were just "A purple piece of amethyst" but in fact it was a small piece of purple diamond, but people without the skill couldn't tell, till it was worked?

Quote from: Jihelu on March 13, 2017, 06:22:57 PM
Master jewelers would probably be able to identify "Hey, this isn't normal"

Wouldn't it be nuts if the items were just "A purple piece of amethyst" but in fact it was a small piece of purple diamond, but people without the skill couldn't tell, till it was worked?

> forage stones

You pick up a small, black stone.

> value stone

A small, black stone would seem to be an unworked black diamond.
A unworked black diamond would seem to cost about 550 obsidian pieces.
A unworked black diamond would seem to weigh 1 stone.

> forage stones

You pick up a small, black stone.

> value stone

A small, black stone would seem to cost 2 obsidian pieces.
A small, black stone would seem to weigh 1 stone.

Ability to properly assess what an item actually might be would be determined by your Guild and your level in the relevant crafting skill, such as Stone crafting or Jewelry crafting.

Don't have the ability to determine your stuff for value, yourself?  Give that merchant in the Bazaar something to do.  Bring your stuff and for a fee, they'll assess it for value and any hidden properties.

I would love it if there were really rare things you could find through forage.  It would do really cool things for the world.

I see this as a game design problem though...

What you don't want is a grindy system where players are incentivized to spam forage over and over again for days on end in hopes of getting that one in a million item.  I know from experience that true RNG can do some pretty awful things to player behavior, and I'm not sure if Armageddon is advanced enough to handle the pseudo-RNG mechanics of more modern games.

If I had to go about doing this, I would hand place the rare thing at a set interval, using a random number generator to choose which room to put it in using that nifty 'bury' code.  If the room doesn't make sense for the item in question, re-roll until I found a room that does.  That would cut down on the need to spam, and increase the value of exploration.

Quote from: wizturbo on March 13, 2017, 09:03:01 PM
If I had to go about doing this, I would hand place the rare thing at a set interval, using a random number generator to choose which room to put it in using that nifty 'bury' code.  If the room doesn't make sense for the item in question, re-roll until I found a room that does.  That would cut down on the need to spam, and increase the value of exploration.

+1

Quote from: wizturbo on March 13, 2017, 09:03:01 PM
I would love it if there were really rare things you could find through forage.  It would do really cool things for the world.

If I had to go about doing this, I would hand place the rare thing at a set interval, using a random number generator to choose which room to put it in using that nifty 'bury' code.  If the room doesn't make sense for the item in question, re-roll until I found a room that does.  That would cut down on the need to spam, and increase the value of exploration.

+1 on both of these!

Staff have definitely run RPTs in the past based around rare materials (both gems and metal).  I admit the idea of seeing them pop up randomly as super rare drops is intriguing, plot wise, but I fear the end result would be the 'Raiders of the Lost Ark' effect, though, where all the cool stuff changes hands a couple of times, then goes to a chest in the richest PC's warehouse to be lost forever.  And most PC's probably wouldn't even hear about it.

Quote from: James de Monet on March 13, 2017, 10:28:47 PM
Staff have definitely run RPTs in the past based around rare materials (both gems and metal).  I admit the idea of seeing them pop up randomly as super rare drops is intriguing, plot wise, but I fear the end result would be the 'Raiders of the Lost Ark' effect, though, where all the cool stuff changes hands a couple of times, then goes to a chest in the richest PC's warehouse to be lost forever.  And most PC's probably wouldn't even hear about it.

Until someone else gets that warehouse, or finds the secret hideout, etc.

Then they would just keep it in said warehouse, giggling to themself crazily. Or get paid a buttload to sell it to a very wealthy person and the whole cycle begins.

How many commoners would even recognize the difference between a blue diamond and a sapphire, they dont have the technology to differentiate between this blue crystal and that blue crystal, sure there are experts out there but your average Amos the Grebber wouldnt be one, and neither would Talia the gem vendor, at least not to the point where it makes any difference to what the blue crystal is called.

And even then the experts, once more dont have the technology to go and for certain tell you its a blue diamond and not a sapphire, you only have an educated guess and his word that it is indeed very valuable  (If he even tells you that to begin with because whats the slogan for Arm?)

Quote from: James de Monet on March 13, 2017, 10:28:47 PM
Staff have definitely run RPTs in the past based around rare materials (both gems and metal).  I admit the idea of seeing them pop up randomly as super rare drops is intriguing, plot wise, but I fear the end result would be the 'Raiders of the Lost Ark' effect, though, where all the cool stuff changes hands a couple of times, then goes to a chest in the richest PC's warehouse to be lost forever.  And most PC's probably wouldn't even hear about it.

It doesn't always need to be an ongoing event, it can just be a temporary one.  Rich people fighting over who gets the shiny thing, poor people fighting over who gets to keep the shiny thing long enough to sell it, etc.

A nugget of copper could create a whole lot of action, even though it's destined to end up in some noble, templar or merchant house's vault.

Side note, is iron a thing IG or is it all copper and shit?

Quote from: Hauwke on March 14, 2017, 12:04:58 AM
How many commoners would even recognize the difference between a blue diamond and a sapphire...

Not many, but I'm not suggesting that your example be used as part of this.  Why make a confusing rare item when you could make a obviously cool one instead?

Instead of a blue diamond, why not have it be a hunk of rock with streaks of silver in it?  Or a stone dagger with a glowing ruby for a pommel.  Those are going to get people's attention real quick.

If a rock was glowing how many commoners would stand around and gawk at it? Most magick fearing people would gtfo right quick in my opinion.

Quote from: Hauwke on March 14, 2017, 12:11:19 AM
If a rock was glowing how many commoners would stand around and gawk at it? Most magick fearing people would gtfo right quick in my opinion.

Of course, that's the point!  The average commoner would run in fear, and tell someone about it!  Suddenly, you have an interesting RPT.

Maybe use the assess command to be able to tell if the diamond is of perfect clarity or cloudy.

Yellow diamonds, red, blue diamonds, white, black, brown.

People would kill for quality black diamonds I think. I feel like black pearls are the most popular pearl color in the game.

My bad Wiz, I thought you meant in in the entirely opposite way, where magick = koolstuph.

I'm always waiting for a "massive chair-sized chunk of diamond' to break free, I just assumed I wasn't trying hard enough.   8)

These are varying colors of diamonds, for reference.

(http://cdn.leibish.com/media/mediabank/fancy-color-diamond-intensity_1642.e205e.jpg)

Now, these are the gemstones people are trying to liken them to.

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/75/e3/b4/75e3b4c8a46f09db2d1e786438324aeb.gif)

I would say that there is enough distinction between them that  someone who works with jewelry should be able to tell. Maybe you would have to have jewelrymaking to be able to tell? Or perhaps value.

Alright, I will admit they do look pretty different.

That being said, perhaps the red everything makes it easier or harder to tell in Zalanthas.

Do they?
I posted them because I thought they didn't look different. I'd better not give up my day job!

The diamonds look more... Washed out? I guess might be the right word I think.

But that does prove my point I think, if you thought they look the same, imagine how some uneducated savage would look at them. Its a rock to them, a pretty looking rock, but a rock none the less.

However, someone that is familiar with jewelry would be able to tell the difference by assessing it, in this scenario. They look different enough to the trained eye that they could be differentiated. It's true any ol' grebber might not know the difference, but that's part of the fun.

Quote from: Hauwke on March 14, 2017, 12:11:19 AM
If a rock was glowing how many commoners would stand around and gawk at it? Most magick fearing people would gtfo right quick in my opinion.

Um, I see glowing rocks strapped to ankles and such all the time.

Actually not a bad point Lostinspace, I always forget about all the wierd as fuck stuff that is actually everyday things.

I agree Chibi, yes a trained jeweler probably could tell the difference between the various rocks and gems, given enough of the correct training. Eg, sure he can tell the difference but wtf actually is this rock

Having the chance to find something really rare from some stroke of luck would be a great excuse for exploration to get folks out there and putting their butts on the line for a chance to strike it rich!

I think the other thing people forget is that (I believe) the vast majority of "polished" stones in game are not cut gems.  They're cabachons, which is the pre-renaissance way of using gems.  Really all you're doing is making them smooth.  They aren't faceted.

(http://www.gemselect.com/help/newsletter/graphics/cabochon-selection-gemselect.jpg)

Quote from: Hauwke on March 14, 2017, 12:08:33 AM
Side note, is iron a thing IG or is it all copper and shit?

There is a steel dragon in Allanak...

You would think I would have thought of that before I posted. I think JDM has a good point too, the technology to really cut them into faceted gems probably isnt really widespread.

Quote from: Hauwke on March 21, 2017, 02:58:34 AM
You would think I would have thought of that before I posted. I think JDM has a good point too, the technology to really cut them into faceted gems probably isnt really widespread.

That's what master jewelers are for. There are also new tools that have just been introduced in game that would ease the difficulty of making a stone faceted.

Quote from: ChibiTama on March 21, 2017, 11:02:33 AM

Quote from: Hauwke on March 21, 2017, 02:58:34 AM
You would think I would have thought of that before I posted. I think JDM has a good point too, the technology to really cut them into faceted gems probably isnt really widespread.

That's what master jewelers are for. There are also new tools that have just been introduced in game that would ease the difficulty of making a stone faceted.

If I had to guess, I'd suspect cutting gems wouldn't be a master jeweler thing but maybe specifically a Kadian thing.

Quote from: manipura on March 21, 2017, 12:27:15 PM

Quote from: ChibiTama on March 21, 2017, 11:02:33 AM

Quote from: Hauwke on March 21, 2017, 02:58:34 AM
You would think I would have thought of that before I posted. I think JDM has a good point too, the technology to really cut them into faceted gems probably isnt really widespread.

That's what master jewelers are for. There are also new tools that have just been introduced in game that would ease the difficulty of making a stone faceted.

If I had to guess, I'd suspect cutting gems wouldn't be a master jeweler thing but maybe specifically a Kadian thing.

Kadius, who has recently released tools used for jewelrymaking.

Quote from: ChibiTama on March 21, 2017, 09:19:53 PM

Quote from: manipura on March 21, 2017, 12:27:15 PM

Quote from: ChibiTama on March 21, 2017, 11:02:33 AM

Quote from: Hauwke on March 21, 2017, 02:58:34 AM
You would think I would have thought of that before I posted. I think JDM has a good point too, the technology to really cut them into faceted gems probably isnt really widespread.

That's what master jewelers are for. There are also new tools that have just been introduced in game that would ease the difficulty of making a stone faceted.

If I had to guess, I'd suspect cutting gems wouldn't be a master jeweler thing but maybe specifically a Kadian thing.

Kadius, who has recently released tools used for jewelrymaking.

Well what I'm getting at is I don't imagine that being a 'master jeweler', even with great tools, is enough for you to know advanced techniques if your character hasn't had appropriate training.
Being in Kadius usually means you'll have better training than the average master jeweler and therefore can create more technically advanced things.  That's all I was getting at.

Its still bones and stone tools guys, how could you hope to get a gem perfectly polished and faceted with such low quality tools, yes they are master jewelers, but at some point it just cant get any better.

Quote from: Hauwke on March 21, 2017, 11:11:17 PM
Its still bones and stone tools guys, how could you hope to get a gem perfectly polished and faceted with such low quality tools, yes they are master jewelers, but at some point it just cant get any better.

This is absolutely true.  There are plenty of things in game though that are 'masterfully' made, that bone and stone tools wouldn't really be able to produce. 
One of those things that just require suspension of belief, because people like making nice things?

The way I see it, make red and black diamonds anyway, because made-up, fantasy, ride the giant sandworm and kill magick beasts.

Quote from: Akaramu on March 13, 2017, 01:38:47 PM
I'm not sure what differently colored gems would add to the game - we already have plenty of underused gems with too few available-to-all crafting recipes for them. I'd love to see super duper rare forage finds of any kind, though. Imagine the plots set in motion by some random grebber stumbling across a small copper deposit.  ;D

This.

HELP FILE

QuotePrecious stone cutting technology was available in real life as early as 1000 BC. however, it was crude - having only a few sides. As the centuries slowly progressed, they succeeded in adding facets. Armageddon's gemstone technology falls on the early end of this progression.