I'm not a fan of how the code only lets you attempt at bandage when you're past the point of self recovery. If I slice my finger open in RL I'm not going to die from it but I'm also not going to stare at the gushing blood until it stops on its own. I think the caps should be removed and we should be able to attempt it at any hp level. Thoughts? reasons why this shouldn't be a thing?
Harsh desert world means you literally cannot bring yourself to stoop to the pussiness needed to bandage a non-mortal wound.
I don't know about pussy, but ooc I hate that aspect of learning to bandage.
Maybe bandage shouldn't pop HP, but should just increase regen slightly to moderately based on skill and success or not.
Regardless of damage?
Wish there was and aspirin substitute for dealing with stun actually.
Yeah but if there was, then everyone would just pop one anytime they planned on going into a fight because they would want the small regen boost.
Quote from: Hauwke on March 11, 2017, 04:29:09 PM
Yeah but if there was, then everyone would just pop one anytime they planned on going into a fight because they would want the small regen boost.
No, it only can work if you are harmed. Maybe at least a small amount. Maybe lost 10% of hp? So you can't bandage before battle, when you aren't hurt.
That would be silly. :)
Well...I think the point is that if you are still in the range of self-recovery, it isn't necessary for you to stop what you're doing and tend your wounds...because self-recovery.
If you're past the point of self-recovery then some actual medical treatment is necessary, because you aren't getting better on your own.
If you could stop and bandage your most superficial wounds, I can imagine all the twinking that would be going on. At least until you were half-decent at bandaging.
Quote from: manipura on March 11, 2017, 04:46:34 PM
If you could stop and bandage your most superficial wounds, I can imagine all the twinking that would be going on. At least until you were half-decent at bandaging.
Of all the skills merchants get, bandaging is by far the most difficult and painful to skill up. I don't think making it a little easier would be a bad thing, and it's already possible to twink now if that's what people want to do.
Quote from: manipura on March 11, 2017, 04:46:34 PM
Well...I think the point is that if you are still in the range of self-recovery, it isn't necessary for you to stop what you're doing and tend your wounds...because self-recovery.
If you're past the point of self-recovery then some actual medical treatment is necessary, because you aren't getting better on your own.
If you could stop and bandage your most superficial wounds, I can imagine all the twinking that would be going on. At least until you were half-decent at bandaging.
Is that 'twinking' less egregious than sparring until you drop below self regen? Because that's about where I think people go with it to even have a chance to use it now. Pushing way farther than they should. I mean any skill can be 'twinked' also often known as practicing. Just bandaging is the one you have to go get yourself near death to even try to do. If you slice a finger on a knife, you bandage it, you don't just go, well, that will heal sometime. Anyway...
Also the HP boost always bothered me. I mean you aren't casting a spell. But whatever, I'm not going to argue the semantics of 'twinking' versus 'realistic practice' in the game.
Why does everyone go straight to the 'No, it will make twinking!' when the only thing that stops twinking in the first place is monitoring by the Imms or reporting by a player maybe? Whatever. I'll shut up about it.
Quote from: Akaramu on March 11, 2017, 04:57:24 PM
Of all the skills merchants get, bandaging is by far the most difficult and painful to skill up. I don't think making it a little easier would be a bad thing, and it's already possible to twink now if that's what people want to do.
I know this won't help the gritty solo or maybe the off-peak player, but... I'd encourage folks to seek out RP and use the Teach skill to get "over" the hump on Bandage (and other skills). With a few good learning sessions you can progress your skill and (even better) learn some tricks of the trade ICly that might also help color your RP of wound treatment based on how your PC is trained.
Good advice, whitt! You only got the quote tags wrong. ;)
This is true for a lot of skills, actually... and finding a cook or someone with a weapon skill you have is probably easier than tracking down a medic who's willing to teach.
I don't really think the point you need to reach to be able to bandage is all that near death, especially if you're talking about a sparring situation. Maybe it's just me though.
What I'm thinking about, when I say twinking, isn't the person realistically RPing and safely sparring or the merchant coming up with reasons to bandage themselves or others, it's the ranger getting schnicked by a tregil and running off to bandage themselves, then running back to get schnicked again. Or the Bynner stopping a sparring match after getting grazed three times, then bandaging themselves and feeling good enough to go again.
It's twinking and not practicing when it's done in an unrealistic way. Running away from a critter that does minor damage, being able to bandage and then strolling back in to do it again? Twinking. Going all out in a sparring circle and having to tend to some injuries after your mercenary training? Practicing.
Constant policing by staff and complaints by other players is one way to stop twinking, sure. Another way is to just have high standards for the playerbase. There are plenty of players who don't twink skills and I doubt its because they had a complaint against them one time or they got caught by staff twinking in the past and then changed their ways.
(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/ba/bac9b84148ab321bbea9e6aa479cd29e3bcc66bc818c999cde9f344a50af6f77.jpg)
Twinks are gonna twink no matter what. They'll just stay in combat until they're bleeding heavily, bandage, then rest on the floor and go back into the sparring ring.
Changing this would help the people who don't twink.
Although I agree that this could easily be abused if it were implemented into the game, I still think overall it is a good idea if we were to implement some sort of requirements so people don't simply spam it by climbing up a bit then waiting until they fall down or something of that sort. Being able to bandage yourself at /any/ HP level is just far to easy to twink although I agree with Akaramu that no matter what, twinks are going to twink. However, that doesn't mean we should encourage it by making it easier. If this were to be implemented it has to be balanced in some way. In what way, I do not know.
Anyway, those are just my two cents on the topic.
Quote from: manipura on March 11, 2017, 05:35:50 PM
I don't really think the point you need to reach to be able to bandage is all that near death, especially if you're talking about a sparring situation. Maybe it's just me though.
What I'm thinking about, when I say twinking, isn't the person realistically RPing and safely sparring or the merchant coming up with reasons to bandage themselves or others, it's the ranger getting schnicked by a tregil and running off to bandage themselves, then running back to get schnicked again. Or the Bynner stopping a sparring match after getting grazed three times, then bandaging themselves and feeling good enough to go again.
It's twinking and not practicing when it's done in an unrealistic way. Running away from a critter that does minor damage, being able to bandage and then strolling back in to do it again? Twinking. Going all out in a sparring circle and having to tend to some injuries after your mercenary training? Practicing.
Constant policing by staff and complaints by other players is one way to stop twinking, sure. Another way is to just have high standards for the playerbase. There are plenty of players who don't twink skills and I doubt its because they had a complaint against them one time or they got caught by staff twinking in the past and then changed their ways.
I know there are plenty of players who don't twink...anyway...saying you want high standards then saying you don't trust people is kind of...contradictory. As others said, if someone wants to twink a skill, they are going to. And the only way someone is going to stop is being caught at it or called out by a player asking them what they are doing and handling it in an IC manner. Like telling them to pull out of the sparring ring before they reach the point of needing bandaged.
My issue I was talking about is bandage is a heal spell. Not a this will 'help' you heal naturally easier and faster buff. Which is why I suggest a regen buff, not a gain X hp buff. Which would at least require you to take longer to heal up, with a buff to regen, rather than a BOOM here is 40 hp or whatever. Thus helping taking care of said concerns of twinkiness with balance of still requiring rest to recuperate.
Quote from: Shoka Windrunner on March 11, 2017, 10:53:30 PM
My issue I was talking about is bandage is a heal spell. Not a this will 'help' you heal naturally easier and faster buff. Which is why I suggest a regen buff, not a gain X hp buff.
I could get behind this. Even if bandaging just removed the "too hurt to heal" flag.
Maybe bandaging could make you gradually gain hp faster to a certain amount of hp, instead of getting a big chunk of hp instantly.
Quote from: Cind on March 12, 2017, 06:31:59 AM
Maybe bandaging could make you gradually gain hp faster to a certain amount of hp, instead of getting a big chunk of hp instantly.
I agree that this would make more sense.
I'd be fine with a combination of instant healing + regen.
Say max bandage making with hella good bandages heals somewhere of upwards of 70 hp.
Instead it would do like, half that + give you boosted regen for "X" in game hours. Maybe that will even exceed the healing you would have gotten before.
Maybe some bandages should be regen only but others instant healing?
Some both?
Idk
I find instant healing extremely unrealistic - unless the bandage is infused with magick, which they tend to not be.
Quote from: Akaramu on March 12, 2017, 02:40:01 PM
I find instant healing extremely unrealistic - unless the bandage is infused with magick, which they tend to not be.
+1
Quote from: Shoka Windrunner on March 11, 2017, 10:53:30 PM
I know there are plenty of players who don't twink...anyway...saying you want high standards then saying you don't trust people is kind of...contradictory. As others said, if someone wants to twink a skill, they are going to. And the only way someone is going to stop is being caught at it or called out by a player asking them what they are doing and handling it in an IC manner. Like telling them to pull out of the sparring ring before they reach the point of needing bandaged.
Saying that high standards is one way to stop twinks and that there are plenty of players who aren't twinks isn't contradicting the fact that, as someone else said, twinks are going to twink. Contradictory would be saying that high standards are one way to stop twinks, and there are plenty of players who aren't twinks and who play to those standards...but if you make this change to bandaging, then everyone will become a twink because it's been made easier. But whatever, the thread isn't really about nit-picky semantics.
As for the instant healing being unrealistic, it makes some sense to have successful bandaging help you heal faster... but unless you're outside in a storm, isn't healing fairly quick already? I always felt like it was.
If someone is in really terrible condition (as an example let's just say they're sitting at 5/100 health), is it more realistic that successful bandaging doesn't give any health back, but they're able to heal faster, or is it more realistic that the successful treatment gives some health back so they aren't actually on deaths door anymore?
In an extreme case like that, I'm not sure which is more realistic. Also, even though you're using a bandage and the skill is bandaging, I usually treat it more like a first aid skill and you're doing more than just wrapping a bandage around a cut, which is maybe why I can justify the health gains a bit more. I don't know. *shrugs*
I do feel that instant healing takes a lot of RP out of the game. People act like they can just sleep off being nearly cut in half and be just fine the next rl day or people act all annoyed when people take the opportunity to rp out the healing process for wounds. I think making bandaging not instantaneous healing magic would be fantastic.
One of my pcs nearly lost a limb once. I rped for a few rl days that his hand was -fucking useless- never held stuff in that hand or anything, I got a few wierd looks because of it but no one said anything too hard about it
Quote from: Hauwke on March 12, 2017, 10:42:09 PM
One of my pcs nearly lost a limb once. I rped for a few rl days that his hand was -fucking useless- never held stuff in that hand or anything, I got a few wierd looks because of it but no one said anything too hard about it
My experience has been similar when I've had a PC playing out an injury. It definitely helps if you make use of tdesc and wear a bandage over the injury (if you can). But I've never really had anyone get annoyed when I've played out "codedly healed" as not necessarily meaning "all better".
Changing bandages over a boost to regenerating hit points is something we've talked about for a long time.
Wouldnt that buff peeps with super high endurance even further with healing? Just a thought since I have seen dwarves and half giants heal pretty bloody quickly.
Quote from: nessalin on March 14, 2017, 01:25:51 PM
Changing bandages over a boost to regenerating hit points is something we've talked about for a long time.
I think it would be good. Maybe a small hp boost to get people out of negative hp status, but just a regen boost after that?
Quote from: nessalin on March 14, 2017, 01:25:51 PM
Changing bandages over a boost to regenerating hit points is something we've talked about for a long time.
After reading over all the replies I'm not sure I got much sympathy for my OP of being able to use bandages when you're -not- past the ability to regen on your own. But I think this is on the right track and the two might coincide nicely if its changed to be a slow process and not just a POOF heal. Kudos in advance :)
Quote from: Hauwke on March 14, 2017, 04:44:47 PM
Wouldnt that buff peeps with super high endurance even further with healing? Just a thought since I have seen dwarves and half giants heal pretty bloody quickly.
Good point.
Would probably need some value that represents maximum chance to heal per pulse as well as maximum amount to heal per pulse, which being bandaged cannot push you beyond.
While this would mean some characters would gain no healing benefit from being bandaged it would also be a reason to expand bandages, in the future, to do more than just improve heal chance and amount.
Quote from: nessalin on March 16, 2017, 03:23:00 PM
some characters would gain no healing benefit from being bandaged it would also be a reason to expand bandages, in the future, to do more than just improve heal chance and amount.
Might it be enough to have bandaging to allow someone to heal via resting, when normally they wouldn't? I'd guess there's a flag on regen of HP that says something like
If (Curr-HP < math-on-Total-HP) Then no-regen.that could be changed to
If ((Curr-HP < math-on-Total-HP) And (Not-Bandaged)) Then no-regen.This might allow folks to practice Bandaging skill when folks aren't so badly injured as well? Since the HP gain is gone, and the bandage is basically just being wasted if the attempt is not needed. What end up with is:
a) no real change in the injured person's condition (on success)
b) the medic makes things worse (on failure)
either way the material is used up.
Very similar to what I was thinking for a bandage revamp/edit, Whitt; lowering the 'cap' on self-regen when bandaged, making medics less about magicking and more about sustainability out in the field.
I didn't post because that sounds very similar to making it a regenerative effect anyway.