Armageddon General Discussion Board

Title explains it all.

What can you tell me of him?
What do you know?
Why was he so legendary?
The battle at the mines? Details!
What did he accomplish in his lifetime?
What were his goals, his motives?
Why did so many follow him?

Find out IC.

It's been well over a RL year honey, and there is literally no documentation on this historical figure, other than the timeline, which is very scarce, at best. I can find tidbits over the board, but nothing really solid.

Quote from: Doublepalli on May 21, 2016, 04:08:32 PM
It's been well over a RL year honey, and there is literally no documentation on this historical figure, other than the timeline, which is very scarce, at best. I can find tidbits over the board, but nothing really solid.

Help cultivate the oral tradition in Zalanthas by asking a bard or something what they know. Ask the grouchety old PC you know. A noble. Maybe a templar if you're gutsy.

Plenty of ways to ask and get an answer over 1 RL year. 8.5 years IC isn't nearly enough time for history to fade away, especially something like Thrain.

Quote from: BrokenRomance on May 21, 2016, 04:15:38 PM

Quote from: Doublepalli on May 21, 2016, 04:08:32 PM
It's been well over a RL year honey, and there is literally no documentation on this historical figure, other than the timeline, which is very scarce, at best. I can find tidbits over the board, but nothing really solid.

Help cultivate the oral tradition in Zalanthas by asking a bard or something what they know. Ask the grouchety old PC you know. A noble. Maybe a templar if you're gutsy.

Plenty of ways to ask and get an answer over 1 RL year. 8.5 years IC isn't nearly enough time for history to fade away, especially something like Thrain.

Come on. We're talking about some shit here that may have went on before some of us were even freaking born. Expecting people to march their Arabet and 'rinthi outlaws over to their nearest templar and ask if they can interrupt their important business pretty please because they wanted to know something is dumb.

Quote from: Patuk on May 21, 2016, 04:20:56 PM

Quote from: BrokenRomance on May 21, 2016, 04:15:38 PM

Quote from: Doublepalli on May 21, 2016, 04:08:32 PM
It's been well over a RL year honey, and there is literally no documentation on this historical figure, other than the timeline, which is very scarce, at best. I can find tidbits over the board, but nothing really solid.

Help cultivate the oral tradition in Zalanthas by asking a bard or something what they know. Ask the grouchety old PC you know. A noble. Maybe a templar if you're gutsy.

Plenty of ways to ask and get an answer over 1 RL year. 8.5 years IC isn't nearly enough time for history to fade away, especially something like Thrain.

Come on. We're talking about some shit here that may have went on before some of us were even freaking born. Expecting people to march their Arabet and 'rinthi outlaws over to their nearest templar and ask if they can interrupt their important business pretty please because they wanted to know something is dumb.

What, the 'rinth ain't got no bards? Find that damn hard to believe.

You're putting "find out IC" to the extreme. That's okay, though. A lot of people do.

In my three+ years of play, I have not heard the name once. Stop mindlessly pushing this mantra to headache-inducing levels.

Truth be told, finding out about long dead characters and little tidbits regarding the world at large is such a chore that you end up not giving a damn.

Quote from: TheWanderer on May 21, 2016, 04:30:46 PM
You're putting "find out IC" to the extreme. That's okay, though. A lot of people do.

In my three+ years of play, I have not heard the name once. Stop mindlessly pushing this mantra to headache-inducing levels.

Truth be told, finding out about long dead characters and little tidbits regarding the world at large is such a chore that you end up not giving a damn.

Pretty much this, yes.

Quote from: TheWanderer on May 21, 2016, 04:30:46 PM
You're putting "find out IC" to the extreme. That's okay, though. A lot of people do.

In my three+ years of play, I have not heard the name once. Stop mindlessly pushing this mantra to headache-inducing levels.

Truth be told, finding out about long dead characters and little tidbits regarding the world at large is such a chore that you end up not giving a damn.

Ah... Maybe my PCs just have it easy then. I've heard about actual history pretty indepth on at least two PCs and I've only had four.

I just think nobody asks about this stuff, I mean you can't expect people to run around screaming about it or something. Gather your balls in your hand, walk up to a PC (or hell wish up for an NPC animation), and claim you heard the name somewhere and you're curious about it because you weren't alive when it happened. Pretend a vNPC said it, damn.

Or.


We could know about the history of something relevant to the game like most people might already know?

I view lore discoveries about the same as place discoveries: it's part of the game that makes it exciting.  Of course, there are only some kinds of characters that can, say, travel inside the volcano up north, and only some kinds of characters that can discover the history of the Dragonthralls or Thrain Ironsword and so on.

Plus, history, to commoners, would be a lot of oral traditions and a lot of fables, in my view.  In the case of Thrain, I think firing off a request to staff would be the answer, if your PC is in a position to get the answer in the game but there aren't veteran PCs around to hand it over.   I've done that with other bits of lore.  You'd be surprised how often the answer is: To be honest, we aren't too sure.

I know personally of one NPC that mentions Thrain and it's pretty much an NPC you'd expect to know some stuff. From there, I guess you could go on a personal discovery quest and seek out lore in game. You just have to be aggressive and patient with it as a goal. That's been my experience with finding out stuff IC anyway.

Quote from: BrokenRomance on May 21, 2016, 04:35:32 PM

Quote from: TheWanderer on May 21, 2016, 04:30:46 PM
You're putting "find out IC" to the extreme. That's okay, though. A lot of people do.

In my three+ years of play, I have not heard the name once. Stop mindlessly pushing this mantra to headache-inducing levels.

Truth be told, finding out about long dead characters and little tidbits regarding the world at large is such a chore that you end up not giving a damn.

Ah... Maybe my PCs just have it easy then. I've heard about actual history pretty indepth on at least two PCs and I've only had four.

I just think nobody asks about this stuff, I mean you can't expect people to run around screaming about it or something. Gather your balls in your hand, walk up to a PC (or hell wish up for an NPC animation), and claim you heard the name somewhere and you're curious about it because you weren't alive when it happened. Pretend a vNPC said it, damn.

It's also entirely possible that the templar, GMH agent, or noble you're asking doesn't have an answer for you because their PLAYER has never learned the answer either, because everyone keeps telling them to find out IC, when in fact, the IC info is no longer available to players in-game. Or at least, not to the players who your character might ask.

Some rinthi scum wouldn't have any reason at all (and in fact would likely have reason to avoid) to ask their local blue-robe what they know about Thrain Ironsword. The average SLK elf would have no one to ask.

This is information we PLAYERS are asking about. My character wouldn't ever give a shit who this guy was and would therefore never consider asking anyone. I, on the other hand, would love to see some of the logs from back then (since y'know, we have player submissions).

You guys are hitting the nail on the head!

Finding this stuff out in game is nigh impossible, and lets be honest, asking a blue-robe about a dwarf who caused allanak to be sieged by dwarves and make allanak look silly for a moment, is a good way to get killed.

I'm asking this as a player, who is this guy? What all did he do? How? Why? Where? you know, he's a legend, lets hear his story from AGES AND AGES ago - long before I started playing Arm.

While I'm sure those beating the FIND OUT IC drum have the best intentions, it is perfectly acceptable to talk about Thrain right now.

Those who know something about him, go ahead. Do so. To those who would rather not know, don't read the thread. Let's keep this on topic.

Thrain Ironsword was seven feet tall and made of radiation.

He'll save children but not the southern children.

Thrain was before my time, even, and I've heard...only tidbits here and there of him.  Indeed, someone knowing the full story would be pretty awesome.

I'm not even sure if such things (of a char PC) are documented.

Quote from: Iiyola on May 21, 2016, 09:46:05 PM
I'm not even sure if such things (of a char PC) are documented.

Yeah, I think the closest log I remember from the old website occurred around here:

1476 (Year 13 Age 20)
Allanak, after centuries of bloodshed and war, launches a successful assault on the Northlands. In a series of bloody battles, Allanaki troops conquer the region of Gol Krathu. The lone surviving Allanaki templar, Elaira Fale of the Blue, is credited with the victory. However, the invaders are unable to finish the job, as Muk Utep holes up in his pyramid and an indefinite siege begins.

IIRC the log involved a couple of desert elves surveying the battlefield just outside the tablelands, and mentioned, of course... flying shaps.

Disclaimer: I wasn't around, and I might have picked the wrong entry in the timeline.

For real though:

Most sponsored characters can't easily find out about shit that happened literally hundreds of years ago unless a PC at the time happened to write about it in a book (and most of the time they did not).  You have to hope an admin smiles on you, and even they simply may not be able to, because a lot of stuff from the primordial era of armageddon might not be well document.  Cool dudes like the plainsman, lord of storms, thrain, etc., do not leave a lot of IC traces because the Powers That Be want all dissidents and sorcerers forgotten.

Maybe those of us that were there would rather keep the oral tradition in game.

I'm okay with being an elitist cunt about things like this.

*That was a self flame, please don't ban me again.

Quote from: Malifaxis on May 22, 2016, 05:55:15 PM
Maybe those of us that were there would rather keep the oral tradition in game.

I'm okay with being an elitist cunt about things like this.

*That was a self flame, please don't ban me again.

I like that you want to keep the oral tradition in the game. Thing is though, I've been playing - how many years now? Since 2002. And I haven't EVER heard any tale about Thrain Ironsword in game. So if the "oral tradition" means "don't let anyone know in or out of game" then it's kind of pointless. If that's not what it means, how would you suggest we find out IC, if our characters aren't people who would know who to ask - and since our characters have never heard of Thrain Ironsword, how would they know TO ask in the first place, let alone look for someone to offer the answer?

Don't worry, Dec. One of these years, if you're faithful, patient, and luckier than some 10 year old veterans, you'll find the information you seek. It'll all be worth.

Or not. Probably not.

I'm sure this "oral tradition" thing will kick in eventually.

Just make shit up.

Thrain was an five cord tall with a real beard who turned Jihae red by spanking her ass. He rode a giant blue inix and personally pissed on every tree in the south until it was dead.

Thrain was a master of karate and friendship for everyone

I believe LoD was actually the player of Thrain Ironsword, back in the day. Where's he gone off to?

Quote from: Jherlen on May 22, 2016, 09:22:50 PM
I believe LoD was actually the player of Thrain Ironsword, back in the day. Where's he gone off to?

Yep that was LoD's character. Here's a post where he mentions it:
http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,1745.msg14328.html#msg14328

He was a dwarf whose focus was to free the dwarven slaves in the southern obsidian mines.

LoD had some awesome insight on how to lead a clan to greatness in his next post in the same thread, btw.

Quote from: Lizzie on May 22, 2016, 09:43:29 PM

Quote from: Jherlen on May 22, 2016, 09:22:50 PM
I believe LoD was actually the player of Thrain Ironsword, back in the day. Where's he gone off to?

Yep that was LoD's character. Here's a post where he mentions it:
http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,1745.msg14328.html#msg14328

He was a dwarf whose focus was to free the dwarven slaves in the southern obsidian mines.

LoD had some awesome insight on how to lead a clan to greatness in his next post in the same thread, btw.

Sujaal?! No wonder everyone loves LoD

LoD was also Bushman, a great (I think the last?) Leader of Blackmoon Raiders.

He was also a great source of complaints regarding proof of favoritism, but an example of what can happen when a player works really well with a willing-and-able staff. I always liked being involved in his stuff.

Edited to remove terrible, terrible racism.  I was on my phone man!

Blackmon Raiders is more than a little racist.

Thrain Ironsword rode a giant Aurochs and spanked Isar red with a badminton racquet. He also bequeathed Muk Utep with his laser eyeballs.

Honestly, who cares? Just play the game. Half the shit from 10 years ago is not only barely relevant, but retconned/changed to make the game evolve towards the future. Dredging up the past is like saying 'once upon a time mantis could drink beer at the bar'. Tuluk isn't playable, so who really cares about whatever liberation or rebellions took place? They're relevant only in that they did happen -- But the hows and wherefores, you may as well make up if it means you are making a good story out of it at the time. If you don't know, and your PCs don't know...Make it up! That's how legends are born.

Quote from: Reiloth on May 23, 2016, 02:05:25 AM
Blackmon Raiders is more than a little racist.

Thrain Ironsword rode a giant Aurochs and spanked Isar red with a badminton racquet. He also bequeathed Muk Utep with his laser eyeballs.

Honestly, who cares? Just play the game. Half the shit from 10 years ago is not only barely relevant, but retconned/changed to make the game evolve towards the future. Dredging up the past is like saying 'once upon a time mantis could drink beer at the bar'. Tuluk isn't playable, so who really cares about whatever liberation or rebellions took place? They're relevant only in that they did happen -- But the hows and wherefores, you may as well make up if it means you are making a good story out of it at the time. If you don't know, and your PCs don't know...Make it up! That's how legends are born.

That's easy to say for someone who saw much of this all, sure.

It's easy for anyone.

If you're a bard and you want to sing a song about Thrain, don't go to the Chronology page and cut and paste the entry. You take the details we do know - Rebellion, Mines, Dorf, Dragon, Dead - and use it as an outline. Fill it events of your own invention to tell whatever story you want people to hear.

I swear one of these days I'm going to play a noble and just devote myself to forging reams of bullshit history and filling libraries with it, just to tweak those who can't seem to function without knowing the absolute truth.

Oh, that's fine, it's half of what I did when I still had my elf tribe going on. That still doesn't mean curious people shouldn't get a straight answer, though.

Title: How to Crush an Armers Enthusiasm for the Game:

OP:
"It's inspiring and fun to see old stories of what players did. I like that. I think everyone likes that. Can anyone share some of this stuff?"

GDB:
(https://media.giphy.com/media/JYZ397GsFrFtu/giphy.gif)

OP: But why n-

GDB:
(http://i.imgur.com/MdFFHMT.gif)"

Quote from: Reiloth on May 23, 2016, 02:05:25 AM
Blackmon Raiders is more than a little racist.

Thrain Ironsword rode a giant Aurochs and spanked Isar red with a badminton racquet. He also bequeathed Muk Utep with his laser eyeballs.

Honestly, who cares? Just play the game. Half the shit from 10 years ago is not only barely relevant, but retconned/changed to make the game evolve towards the future. Dredging up the past is like saying 'once upon a time mantis could drink beer at the bar'. Tuluk isn't playable, so who really cares about whatever liberation or rebellions took place? They're relevant only in that they did happen -- But the hows and wherefores, you may as well make up if it means you are making a good story out of it at the time. If you don't know, and your PCs don't know...Make it up! That's how legends are born.

I really don't like this attitude at all. My character doesn't give a shit about Thrain Ironsword. But I'm curious and interested in the game's lore. So are a lot of people - that's why we have a submissions page here, and a submissions section on the main website with logs and stories and songs and pictures of our characters. I believe you are one of the contributors, no? So wouldn't that make YOU someone who cares? Armageddon is steeped in game history and lore. That's one of the things that attracts people to it; it's not just a start-up Diku that has no meat behind it. Players want to know what has led up to the current incarnation of the game, the current plots, why the gates close at dusk, why Tuluk is a city that no one can play in, why parts of the world are called the Known and the Unknown, why there's stuff on the website about the Tan Muark but you can't play one anymore.

All of these things are game history. The Fall, rise, and Rebellion of Tuluk is part of that history, and Thrain Ironsword played a part in it. That's why people give a shit. Not because their characters need to know, but the players can "grok" the game more deeply if we (players) know.

Eh. Why is this even an issue?

If someone knows and wants to share the information they can share it at this point and staff won't mind.

If the people who know do not want to share the information, you can't force them.



If anyone believes it shouldn't or should be shared here is irrelevant. Your opinion does not matter in any way.

Sharing it at this point would not be breaking the rules. End of story.

The only issue on the table is if the people who do know want to take the time to type it here.

Non-issue is non-issue.

Anyone who has ever played with LoD knows that he deserved all the praise/staff attention that he may have gotten with his characters.

Dude's a rp legend.

There was a dwarf who stood up and helped break the chains of slavery and raise a revolution of dwarves against the kingdom of men. Shattering those bonds, the dwarf gathered armies of slaves to march on Allanak and beseige it, having very fine weapons and tools from having been forced to work in the mines, gathering copper, metal, obsidian, ect... It's quite possible ironsword may have actually had an iron sword, though I'm not certain.
This beseiging prompted a dragon, (Tektolnes?) to return and destroy the armies of the dwarves and I think the remaining iron the mining slave dwarves had was used to build the steel dragon statue in rememberence and started the real 'religious zeal' of the highlord stuff.
At least, that's what I think I know. Please feel free to correct me.

lol dorfs got cookd

cookd dorfs

lern ur plase slaves

DISCLAIMER: Do not read this if you don't want to know the history of the game world from hundreds of IC years ago. Do not read this if you don't want to know how Armageddon has changed over the last 25 RL years.

With that said, let's get on to the history lesson.

Thrain Ironsword was played by LoD, so he would have the best perspective on what actually happened to Thrain through the character's lifetime, what his motivations were, what he was like as a person, who his friends were and why, what his dwarven focus actually was, etc.

I can tell you what I know of Thrain from the perspective of a character that was an enemy of Thrain Ironsword, which would include a handful of interesting details about what happened way back around 1992-93, focused primarily around Allanak.

Some things worth noting from the time:

a) Allanak only had House Oash as a playable noble house

b) There was no steel dragon at the Allanak gate entrance, and the symbol/concept of a dragon as a representation of Tektolnes did not exist yet. Previously the dragon represented a rogue [/me tips hat to rouge spelling] force of nature that destroyed a massive chunk of Tuluk, and was considered a possible threat to both Tuluk and Allanak if it were to return to the world.

c) Red robe templars were playable by PCs, but still extremely rare

d) Racial prejudice existed for elves throughout the game, but dwarves, muls, halflings and even mantis could walk as a free people inside both Tuluk and Allanak. The Allanaki slave mines did not necessarily represent a time when southern dwarves were at a greater risk for being enslaved in the mines - anyone could be a slave, but in this case there was a location with an Allanaki slave camp, and it happened to have a lot of dwarves in it that were slaves. You could actually have a mul walking through the streets that wasn't a slave, so Thrain Ironsword looking to liberate the Allanaki slave mines was, in some ways, a general act of defiance against Allanak from a clan composed primarily of dwarves (but not exclusively), and this clan operated out of Tuluk. This clan may have had a political agenda that favored the interests of Tuluk, but I was never privy to what that agenda may have been, having been a player playing a character on the opposing side (Allanak).

e) Muk Utep still ruled Tuluk, and the city was enforced by red robe templars and white robe templars, but these templars did not have psionic powers (I don't believe psionicist existed as a playable guild yet), and the city did not have the dystopia theme that staff and players tried to convey with the new Tuluk (now closed). Red Robe templars had access physical spells like creating fire or hardening skin to stone, while white robes had more subtle spells like detecting invisibility, seeing magick ,etc. There were no kung fu red robes like what appeared later.

f) Tuluk was a much more free society in general compared to Allanak, and it even permitted the casting of elementalist magick in the city streets. There were elemental temples, but no elemental gems. It was around 1995ish when the law in Tuluk declared that elementalists would have to restrict the casting of magick to their temples.

With all that said to set to the stage for the final portion of Thrain Ironsword's story, I'll tell you some of what I know about how he was able to liberate the slave mines of Allanak and then put the entire city under siege for a prolonged period. I'll do my best to put a disclaimer when I'm not sure about all the facts, but some of the information may be inaccurate after so many years having passed. If LoD could jump into the thread, he and I might be able to fill in some of the gaps by comparing memories. Nessalin was also there at the time, so he may have some information to share.


Thrain Ironsword in Tuluk


Thrain Ironsword was the leader of the Ironsword clan, and from what I was told, he operated out of the tavern named Flint's Tavern in Tuluk. I never knew where he actually hung out or lived his life, as my character was confined to Allanak and had never visited Tuluk. Thrain had dwarves who followed him and who believed in him strongly as a leader, and in all my years of Armageddon play I've never seen a dwarven PC or NPC carry as much respect and influence in the game as Thrain did. My character spoke to a few of Thrain's followers via The Way, and all of them seemed to adore Thrain and would die for him without a second thought. Thrain represented freedom and power for the dwarven people - he was able to amass an army of VNPC dwarves at the end of his years who were willing to fight for him, and who eventually fought alongside him in a battle to liberate the slave mines of Allanak.


The Ironsword clan marches on Allanak


From the perspective of Allanak, Thrain marched toward Allanak with his army and went straight up to the main gates, where one of the dwarves in the army shouted out that the army wanted to talk with the templarate (not sure if Thrain was speaking). Nathaniel the blue robe templar was the first templar to make contact with the army at the gates of Allanak (and was a PC), and he stood at the top of the gates of Allanak, looking out at the army of dwarves, unsure of what to do or handle the situation. He fearfully called out to the soldiers to shut the gates, and the soldiers hesitated to follow his order at first, not believing that Allanak was about to shut its gates against an actual enemy threat for the first time in centuries. A few threats from the templar saw the gates gradually close shut, and it was at that moment that the siege of Allanak would begin for a significant amount of time.

From the reports that I heard, the Allanaki slave mines fell fairly easily without defensive support from the main city of Allanak against the Ironsword army, and then the Ironsword clan took up position around Allanak, not allowing any travel in or out of the city.


The Siege of Allanak


Due to the siege on the city, food supplies became scarce and the population began to suffer. Even more problematic for the Allanaki government was that the templars of Allanak lost their ability to call upon the Highlord for any magickal assistance. This is something that the templarate tried to hide from the common people, but as the weeks went on, more and more fighting and rebellion in the city saw the deaths of soldiers and templars. There were rumors that went around of people that could smuggle you out of the city for a price, either through magickal means or other means, and acquiring spice of any kind was even more difficult than previously (spice was still illegal in Allanak back then, as it is now).


The Clash of the North and South


Eventually the armies of Allanak planned to ride out to break the siege, lead by Liben the red robe templar (PC), and accompanied by Caligula the blue robe templar and Nathaniel the blue robe templar. The Allanaki forces rode out to clash with the dwarven army, but the dwarves retreated immediately. Being chased by the Allanaki army, the dwarves fled back to the slave camp, and then that's when things turned sour for Allanak. The Allanaki forces met head on with Tuluki forces (I think Kurac may have also been there) combined with the dwarven army, and the battle went far worse for Allanak than anticipated. Allanak was unprepared for this surprise, and most of the Allanaki forces were killed. If I recall, the raider clan Blackmoon rode out with Allanak as paid mercenaries in defense of the city, but turned on Allanak when the battle began (I remember the Blackmoon names of Wolf and Vis, but this Blackmoon part may need clarification of facts). The climax of the battle was Thrain Ironsword fighting off soldier after soldier (nearly every Allanak soldier NPC was targeting him in the fight), where Thrain eventually clashed against Liben the red robe templar. In those days the combat code did not penalize you for fighting multiple targets at once, so Thrain may have actually been fighting off 15+ combined NPC soldiers and templars at the same time, and was still holding his ground due to the defensive code being more generous than it is today (after changes made by Morgenes quite a few years ago). Even for that time, it seemed incredible that Thrain could stand against such a force. From a technology perspective, you have to imagine that a lot of people were using 1200 baud modems for their connection to Armageddon, and the text scrolling speed was actually quite slow. Having so much spam from combat made it impossible to react quickly to what was happening because your actions were delayed by quite a few seconds, even moreso than you might imagine in such chaos today with the screen flying up with text you can't read in time (at least with 1200 baud you could painfully read the text, but you knew you couldn't act for a while).

Because the combat text was just massive, and because my logging buffer size wasn't enough to keep a log of the fight back then, I never had any record of the combat beyond the memory of what I was able to read during the fight. What I do know is that Thrain was killed at the end of the fight (rumor has it by Liben), and then Liben was killed by Thrain's followers. Caligula and Nathaniel the blue fled from combat, and both of them barely managed to escape. Nathaniel made it back to the city nearly dead and without a mount, and Caligula survived because he actually found Nathaniel's abandoned mount in the desert when Caligula's own mount was too exhausted to go on.

Caligula could not endure the shame of defeat - the idea of Allanak being defeated was too much for him to bear, and so he gathered as many volunteer soldiers and commoners as he could to join him on a second march. It was the act of a desperate man, and every person that went to join him did so with the understanding that they weren't coming back. The door of death was open as an escape from the future that seemed inevitable: Allanak was going to be conquered.

Nathaniel watched the small band leave from the top of the gates, and he noticed that only the templar was mounted at the front of the line. He never saw them again.


The Rise of the Dragon


With Allanak's army defeated by the Ironsword clan and the northern forces, it looked as though Allanak was about to be conquered, or at least sieged to starvation.

There weren't any sudden riots or crime sprees through the city when Allanak's army was defeated. Just a kind of paralyzing fear as the city tried to grasp the idea of losing to an enemy when the entire culture thrived on being the center of the world, protected by the great and powerful Tektolnes. Was Tektolnes dead? The idea had been lingering in the minds of the templarate throughout the siege. Why did the templarate not have their powers?

But then, just as all hope had begun to drain from the people of Allanak, the sky was filled with a terrible shriek and an enormous shadow passed over the city (the potential historical origin of "In His Shadow"). The form of a dragon flew overhead and it roared and breathed flame on the enemies of Allanak, and the earth opened up beneath the armies and swallowed them whole, including any Allanaki forces that happened to be in the area. The northern armies were defeated, and Allanak was saved thanks to the power of Tektolnes, who now apparently took the form of a dragon. The templarate regained their powers once more.

A pair of black robe templars appeared in Allanak, announcing that Tektolnes had come to save the city and was furious with his army for being unable to dispatch his enemies. As punishment, one of the black robe templars and Nathaniel the blue robe templar were publicly executed in front of the city gates as example of what happens to those who fail the Highlord. 

At this point I can't remember if a plan was made to create the steel dragon statue above the gates of Allanak as a commemoration of what happened, or if that steel dragon was created after the iron mines mega RPT chain from around 2001. Maybe someone from the iron mines RPT era can remember if the steel dragon had already been there at the time, or if it was built after Allanak managed to get some metal from the mines in the clash with Tuluk.

What I do know is that from this point on, the symbol of Allanak and embodiment of Tektolnes was a dragon.


So there you go. I hope this was of interest to some players and staff members. I would be happy to discuss any other information from the past if anyone is curious.

That is awesome, though. Thank you very much. It was exactly what I was hoping to see, and I'm sure OP agrees, too.

That was AWESOME, thanks! It's stories like these that can really thrust yourself into your character's mentality. Why do they think the way they think? Why do we refer to His shadow? What's the deal with the steel dragon? What atmosphere did our characters grow up in, and what led to that atmosphere? This is the stuff that successful games are made of - lore and legend, especially when it involves PCs of days past. So thank you for that!

Quote from: Lizzie on May 23, 2016, 11:34:42 AM
That was AWESOME, thanks! It's stories like these that can really thrust yourself into your character's mentality. Why do they think the way they think? Why do we refer to His shadow? What's the deal with the steel dragon? What atmosphere did our characters grow up in, and what led to that atmosphere? This is the stuff that successful games are made of - lore and legend, especially when it involves PCs of days past. So thank you for that!

Totally agreed. What makes Armageddon so special is that it's a world so rich with these sorts of stories. You can see the way in-game events that other players led or influenced affect the world, even multiple RL decades and multiple IG Ages later. Stuff like this to me is what puts the I in RPI.

Very cool you took the time to write this up, Withered Ocotillo.

+ Over 9,000 for awesome.

Thrain was the bringer of rain, after defeating Theokoles within the arena.

He was the first person to master the create rainbow skill.

He fought in the first rebellion of Allanak against the forces of Tuluk ( the sekrit one).

Hahah, wait.. I wonder if it's the Nathaniel I'm thinking of, a RL friend of mine from loooooooooooong ago.

Did he try to flee to Tuluk and was insta-brought back and beheaded?? Was it still when "healing" potions were available to buy? If so the amount of twinkery going on between all of us at that time was pure insanity and while the story is pretty awesome, there's no way that anything like that would fly in today's Armageddon.

The main reason why I started playing Armageddon was because I couldn't speak or write a word of English and Nathaniel and a couple of other friends were from Montreal so they knew -some- French and they would tell me in the most basic of French to English and vice versa what to do so I could help them twink up and make crazy amount of 'sids and get metal weapons aplenty. That's pretty much how/why I learned English in the first place.

If it's not the same Nathaniel then please disregard :)
---------------------------------------------------------------
omg, it's really you Chuckles, I can't believe this.
---------------------------------------------------------------

You can tell 1992 (holy crap, 24 real life years ago) was a different time just based on some of these wild names.

Caligula
Wolf
THRAIN IRONSWORD
Nathaniel

Mantis trading in the streets of Allanak and casting in the streets of Tuluk.

A wildly different time.

That's a downside for learning some of the old lore: it's so different that it comes across as twinky and stupid (and some of it is just stupid), even if it was just how things were back in the day.

Quote from: LauraMars on May 23, 2016, 01:51:57 PM
You can tell 1992 (holy crap, 24 real life years ago) was a different time just based on some of these wild names.

Caligula
Wolf
THRAIN IRONSWORD
Nathaniel

Mantis trading in the streets of Allanak and casting in the streets of Tuluk.

A wildly different time.

It gets even weirder when you receive a PM that starts with "Is this Batman from Gamemaster BBS?"

Quote from: BadSkeelz on May 23, 2016, 01:54:52 PM
That's a downside for learning some of the old lore: it's so different that it comes across as twinky and stupid (and some of it is just stupid), even if it was just how things were back in the day.

It's all gotta start somewhere.

Full disclosure, I asked Withered Ocotillo (my husband) to come post here and share some of his ancient memories, since at this point, it's starting to qualify as RL history just as much as in game history. He no longer plays the game but remembers Thrain and the events of that time.

He's been walking around the house laughing about reconnecting with his old buddy Malken for the past half hour.

Quote from: LauraMars on May 23, 2016, 02:15:07 PM

Quote from: BadSkeelz on May 23, 2016, 01:54:52 PM
That's a downside for learning some of the old lore: it's so different that it comes across as twinky and stupid (and some of it is just stupid), even if it was just how things were back in the day.

It's all gotta start somewhere.

Full disclosure, I asked Withered Ocotillo (my husband) to come post here and share some of his ancient memories, since at this point, it's starting to qualify as RL history just as much as in game history. He no longer plays the game but remembers Thrain and the events of that time.

He's been walking around the house laughing about reconnecting with his old buddy Malken for the past half hour.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111111111111111

NO WAY

Cool to hear the actual story.

Honestly, hearing it from the enemy perspective probably made it better, for me at least.  In 1998, I think it was, I made a dwarf named Zurak and found a templar and told them I was a gladiator-slave.  They got me set up very quickly, and at one point they were talking about Thrain.  I had no idea what it meant at the time. 

It's fine to share this stuff but please remember one very important thing:

This is a world with no written history for the VAST majority of its population.  And this is a world where the Allanaki templarate (and potentially the nobility as well) ergo - the people who maintain the written history - would actively suppress (think:  book-burning) knowledge of a defeat at the hands of a bunch of rag-tag slaves, if it were written down. 

I do not want to see anyone running around IC with in-depth IC knowledge of Thrain or any of this history.  OOCly knowing [stuff] that happened back in the day is well and good.

Quote from: seidhr on May 23, 2016, 03:34:21 PM
It's fine to share this stuff but please remember one very important thing:

This is a world with no written history for the VAST majority of its population.  And this is a world where the Allanaki templarate (and potentially the nobility as well) ergo - the people who maintain the written history - would actively suppress (think:  book-burning) knowledge of a defeat at the hands of a bunch of rag-tag slaves, if it were written down. 

I do not want to see anyone running around IC with in-depth IC knowledge of Thrain or any of this history.  OOCly knowing [stuff] that happened back in the day is well and good.

Not saying that anyone living alive in Zalanthas today would know details, but on the Chronology page it does say (emphasis mine):

QuoteOver the course of the next few years, a temple is built near the entrance of the city, in which the newly formed white-robe templarate preach the worship of He Who Rescued Us, the Mighty Dragon Tektolnes.

Could this be interpreted as Allanak acknowledging a defeat (in the battle sense, not the war sense), in order to make Tektolnes' subsequent victory that much more emphatic, sort of akin to how Tek also buried Steinal after his army failed to take it? The He Who Rescued Us Bit seems to imply the city needed rescuing even in the official narrative.

Trying to erase all knowledge of the defeat sounds like something more out of the Tuluki playbook; Allanak seems more like a place where people would say "Yeah, whatever, there was a siege for a bit and such but then HERE CAME TEKTOLNES AND HE WAS ALL LIKE A DRAGON AND WAS LIKE WHOOOOOSH AND PEW PEW AND HE SHOT FIRE AND STUFF AND KILLED EVERYTHING AND THERE WAS SO MUCH BLOOD AND DEATH IT WAS AWESOME... and thats why we got us a steel dragon statue now I guess."

Hehe, it was a crazy Wild West time back then.

Things weren't as strict as they are now, but the playerbase was so small that if you knew two or three people, you had connections with just about every player on the OOC level in ONE WAY or ANOTHER.

It's just part of the evolution of the game.

It's kind of charming in a nostalgic way.

Great read.

I really enjoy the fact that it shows that it's not so much the game you play but the memories you make of it that make the greatest stories in the end.

Withered Ocotillo managed to write an epic story about an event that was, to me, something like any other "game of the weekend" I've played with these guys. Now that I've read the way he wrote it, I'm amazed that I was actually part of this and can't believe it's the story that often comes up when people mention what you can do on Arm if you put the time in it :) (also the fact that I probably didn't understand 90% of what was going on didn't help any, heh)

My most vivid memories of this time was actually the summers I've spent with Withered Ocotillo and friends on a game where you would mostly just ring a bell and then everyone would kill the monster that came out, except the RL friends I've made on it is what made it so memorable to me and also probably why me and Withered Ocotillo could remember right away all the names of the "characters" we got involved with on such a simple game.

Quote from: Jherlen on May 23, 2016, 03:48:02 PM

Not saying that anyone living alive in Zalanthas today would know details, but on the Chronology page it does say (emphasis mine):

QuoteOver the course of the next few years, a temple is built near the entrance of the city, in which the newly formed white-robe templarate preach the worship of He Who Rescued Us, the Mighty Dragon Tektolnes.

Could this be interpreted as Allanak acknowledging a defeat (in the battle sense, not the war sense), in order to make Tektolnes' subsequent victory that much more emphatic, sort of akin to how Tek also buried Steinal after his army failed to take it? The He Who Rescued Us Bit seems to imply the city needed rescuing even in the official narrative.

Trying to erase all knowledge of the defeat sounds like something more out of the Tuluki playbook; Allanak seems more like a place where people would say "Yeah, whatever, there was a siege for a bit and such but then HERE CAME TEKTOLNES AND HE WAS ALL LIKE A DRAGON AND WAS LIKE WHOOOOOSH AND PEW PEW AND HE SHOT FIRE AND STUFF AND KILLED EVERYTHING AND THERE WAS SO MUCH BLOOD AND DEATH IT WAS AWESOME... and thats why we got us a steel dragon statue now I guess."

That's probably open to interpretation yes.  My main point is I just don't want to see the more in-depth OOC knowledge leaking into the game world.  The chronology page is written in such a way that it might reflect what people know from an oral storytelling tradition, tavern gossip, etc.

There's actually a mural in Allanak depicting the siege. With this in mind I don't think knowledge of the Thrain Ironsword history is being actively suppressed in Nakki culture.  The important thing is that Tektolnes came and triumphed in the end.

I think what Seidhr might be saying is that it's inconceivable that such minute details shared here (such as the name of the blue robes involved and whatnot), being removed several lifetimes over from any PC currently living, would be known by any but the most well-read of high ranking Templars. As with all OOC knowledge, you have to be good about recognizing what your character would know. This is true for plant and animal lore on the website to magick spells to your ability to get to Luirs' Outpost.

As a long time player, I am constantly roleplaying as more ignorant than I actually am, and I think that's what's being pointed out here.

That was  nice to read and I reckon would have been great fun to have participated in. I wish we could have such things happen again, not the same things, but similar things.

What a great history lesson! Thanks very much for taking the time to write that up. One thing I've always felt sad about Armageddon was a lack of literacy in the game. I think there could be so much more potential with keeping character histories alive and stories IG and not just OOCly known, if somehow literacy became open learning within Allanak.

I'm waiting for that update...

"With the Historian Sub-Guild added to the game, these people hold a powerful tool that ups the ante over the linguist that could prove dangerous to society as a whole. People who choose the Historian subguild will require an explained background, and start with two very important abilities. The first is the ability to speak, read and write in both sirihish as well as their race's own language, with humans learning the ancient speech of Tatlum, which uttering without being a Templar could lead to instant death. In addition, these people would be given starting equipment; A journal, and some various books of a chosen subject worked out with staff that this Historian would be an expert with. This sub-guild should add interesting flavor to the game, and allow for a slightly quicker progression of literacy in the common populace through illegal means, as well as an easy way for people to keep logs that may be found in other parts of the world, or allow for the dramatic flair when a book or journal of value is obliterated into kindling."

Quote from: AdamBlue on May 24, 2016, 04:59:27 AM
I'm waiting for that update...

"With the Historian Sub-Guild added to the game, these people hold a powerful tool that ups the ante over the linguist that could prove dangerous to society as a whole. People who choose the Historian subguild will require an explained background, and start with two very important abilities. The first is the ability to speak, read and write in both sirihish as well as their race's own language, with humans learning the ancient speech of Tatlum, which uttering without being a Templar could lead to instant death. In addition, these people would be given starting equipment; A journal, and some various books of a chosen subject worked out with staff that this Historian would be an expert with. This sub-guild should add interesting flavor to the game, and allow for a slightly quicker progression of literacy in the common populace through illegal means, as well as an easy way for people to keep logs that may be found in other parts of the world, or allow for the dramatic flair when a book or journal of value is obliterated into kindling."

I could see this becoming "Know what I hate more than a 'gicker? A damn historian." somehow. Somebody would find a way.

Envy for literate types would be a thing fuelled by the well off (not even just highborn), even if literacy did become commonplace. The advantage of storable knowledge as opposed to fallible oral history is too great for most folks to give up.

The only people who would benefit from literacy are the high up commoners, the common man or woman would be far more interested in not starving than dealing with books and literacy matters. And believe me the cost of paper and so on would go up if the demand was wider.

No player-run PC currently alive, is going to know about such old PCs.

The only way is to find an NPC who might know something and be open to divulging it to you.

Saying "Find out IC" to everything - is incorrect.

In cases such as this - you CANNOT find out ICLY.

Quote from: Incognito on May 24, 2016, 08:24:21 AM
Saying "Find out IC" to everything - is incorrect.

In cases such as this - you CANNOT find out ICLY.

Unless you have literate connections who can and will search the virtual libraries for you.

Quote from: valeria on May 24, 2016, 08:39:22 AM

Quote from: Incognito on May 24, 2016, 08:24:21 AM
Saying "Find out IC" to everything - is incorrect.

In cases such as this - you CANNOT find out ICLY.

Unless you have literate connections who can and will search the virtual libraries for you.

This is fine for the sake of argument.

For the sake of argument, we can also state that ALL information about ALL PCs is available somewhere in some virtual library or known by some VNPC.

That realistically and practically speaking - doesn't mean that you can find out ICLY.

Moreover, Tuluk is closed ICLY - so all libraries and NPCs (virtual and real) are inaccessible at the moment.

Furthermore, approaching a "literate connection" who has the ability to search virtual libraries - is just another word for a VNPC or a PC who will access virtual info.

Quote from: Incognito on May 24, 2016, 08:24:21 AM
No player-run PC currently alive, is going to know about such old PCs.

The only way is to find an NPC who might know something and be open to divulging it to you.

Quote from: Incognito on May 24, 2016, 08:48:00 AM

Quote from: valeria on May 24, 2016, 08:39:22 AM

Quote from: Incognito on May 24, 2016, 08:24:21 AM
Saying "Find out IC" to everything - is incorrect.

In cases such as this - you CANNOT find out ICLY.

Unless you have literate connections who can and will search the virtual libraries for you.

Moreover, Tuluk is closed ICLY - so all libraries and NPCs (virtual and real) are inaccessible at the moment.

You're incorrect.  Allanak has a library that can be searched by PCs, and using PC connections to access virtual information is still finding out IC.

I think it's an accurate characterization to say historical information would be difficult to find out IC.  But to say that you "cannot" find old historical information out IC is going a little too far.

Quote from: Desertman on May 23, 2016, 04:08:09 PM
the playerbase was so small that if you knew two or three people, you had connections with just about every player on the OOC level in ONE WAY or ANOTHER.

Actually the player base was a lot larger back then than it is now. It was common to have to wait before you could log in until someone else logged out because the game capped at 99 or 100.

Quote from: Suhuy on May 24, 2016, 09:12:23 AM

Quote from: Desertman on May 23, 2016, 04:08:09 PM
the playerbase was so small that if you knew two or three people, you had connections with just about every player on the OOC level in ONE WAY or ANOTHER.

Actually the player base was a lot larger back then than it is now. It was common to have to wait before you could log in until someone else logged out because the game capped at 99 or 100.

What? No, not even close. Not even close to the numbers we have today. Pretty sure it was a huge thing when it got into the 20's.

Where did you even get those numbers??

Quote from: valeria on May 24, 2016, 08:51:40 AM

Quote from: Incognito on May 24, 2016, 08:48:00 AM

Quote from: valeria on May 24, 2016, 08:39:22 AM

Quote from: Incognito on May 24, 2016, 08:24:21 AM
Saying "Find out IC" to everything - is incorrect.

In cases such as this - you CANNOT find out ICLY.

Unless you have literate connections who can and will search the virtual libraries for you.

Moreover, Tuluk is closed ICLY - so all libraries and NPCs (virtual and real) are inaccessible at the moment.

You're incorrect.  Allanak has a library that can be searched by PCs, and using PC connections to access virtual information is still finding out IC.

I think it's an accurate characterization to say historical information would be difficult to find out IC.  But to say that you "cannot" find old historical information out IC is going a little too far.

One of the problems with information that is as old as the Ironsword siege of Allanak is that there are almost no players or even staff members that know the details of the history. So while a PC can roleplay working towards finding out information that's hundreds of years old in-game, there really isn't any staff member that is going to be able to provide the information to the PC, because the staff member doesn't know the details of what happened.

Nessalin may be the only active staff member that can recall some of the events of what happened back then, and I imagine his memory is also filled with gaps because the events happened so long ago. I think it's helpful to draw on the play experiences of players and staff alike to put together some of what happened in the very distant past, or otherwise all of these story details will eventually be lost to time.

I really enjoyed WO's post and how it is presented (the mixing of OOC and IC is nice -- it sort of reminds me of a mix between Walter Benjamin's Arcades and one of those TSR pre-made D&D campaign books) -- it got me thinking.  What if we (as a player/staff-base) came up with a list of interesting events (HRPTs) that happened in the past and tried to write up a kind of summation of those events, one after the other.  It could go into the original submissions thread eventually, a kind of Chronicles of Zalanthas, but maybe would start out as individual threads where we cultivate our collective memory of the events in question.

E.g.:

o Red Fangs.
o Dragonthraal/Dune Stalkers.
o Mantis Attack on Luir's.
o The Flood Thing.
o Copper Wars.
o Tyn Dashra
o Ten Serak (or whatever it is)

Quote from: Suhuy on May 24, 2016, 09:12:23 AM

Quote from: Desertman on May 23, 2016, 04:08:09 PM
the playerbase was so small that if you knew two or three people, you had connections with just about every player on the OOC level in ONE WAY or ANOTHER.

Actually the player base was a lot larger back then than it is now. It was common to have to wait before you could log in until someone else logged out because the game capped at 99 or 100.

If I remember correctly, the player cap was actually set to 30 during the siege of Ironsword days, and I think the cap later grew and stayed at 40 for quite a few years. I don't remember the peak number of players on an average night, but I recall that you did sometimes hit the 30 cap on some weekends, even without special events, so you had to wait to play. You could actually feel the MUD lagging when you hit the player cap, back then.

Yeah I remember there being a cap, but it was nowhere close to 100.

Yar, I remember being HAPPY AS A SCRAB IN SAND when I would login after the mandatory Saturday Hell that was the dreaded All Day Maintenance time and I would see 25 - 30 people online. That was a busy peak time then.

Quote from: valeria on May 24, 2016, 08:51:40 AM

Quote from: Incognito on May 24, 2016, 08:48:00 AM

Quote from: valeria on May 24, 2016, 08:39:22 AM

Quote from: Incognito on May 24, 2016, 08:24:21 AM
Saying "Find out IC" to everything - is incorrect.

In cases such as this - you CANNOT find out ICLY.

Unless you have literate connections who can and will search the virtual libraries for you.

Moreover, Tuluk is closed ICLY - so all libraries and NPCs (virtual and real) are inaccessible at the moment.

You're incorrect.  Allanak has a library that can be searched by PCs, and using PC connections to access virtual information is still finding out IC.

I think it's an accurate characterization to say historical information would be difficult to find out IC.  But to say that you "cannot" find old historical information out IC is going a little too far.

Of course my statement meant - ALL libraries and NPCs (virtual and real) in TULUK are inaccessible at the moment.

The ones in Allanak are definitely accessible.

That still means that approximately 50% of ICLY available info to the common Zalanthan - is inaccessible.

The OOC issue is - there have been tons of famous and infamous PCs who have become legends in the Known World over the existence of the game. And realistically speaking, the ONLY way to access such info would be to get Staff involved. Knowing how busy they are as is, it is probable but unlikely that random requests from PCs for the history of so-and-so PC will be searched out and presented.

Maybe someday, Staff might consider assigning some of their energies into archiving and releasing some info on certain PCs from the past, but again, that is asking for a lot. Another thing to consider is - there were no Biographies back in those days, so its not even easy for Staff to go back and look up something with relative ease.

Edited to add: Two thumbs up to Withered Ocotillo's post.

My point was to point out that you were confusing impossible with difficult. Maybe you were just using sloppy language, but if there are new players reading this, they should know that it IS possible to find out about historical events ICly and there ARE libraries in Allanak.

We now seem to agree it's difficult but not impossible. Can we move on?

Valeria, in order for a random commoner or maybe even dwarven PC (who might actually find the information useful/interesting/rewarding) to learn this information, the following things need to be true:

1) the PC in question needs to know that Thrain Ironsword existed, so that he can know to ask about him.
2) the PC in question needs to know who to ask.
3) the PC being asked needs to know that such information about Thrain Ironsword exists.
4) the PC being asked needs to know where to find such information.
5) the PC being asked needs to have enough of an interest in Thrain Ironsword (or the PC asking for information about him) to take time out of his busy year to investigate.
6) the PC asking about TI needs to live long enough for the information being asked to be presented to him.

If you were to check with Gimfilasette, I'm guessing she would do the math and come up with a 1-2% possibility of success. Highly unlikely to ever happen, ridiculously improbable, most assuredly not gonna happen. Impossible? I guess not. It's also not impossible that I can be approved for a full-guild psi-sorc Senior Winrothol noble to play with my own personal army of Jade Sabers led by a Black Robe to keep me safe. Not gonna even think about bothering to try for that role though because I know my chances are at best 1-2%.

The dissemination of historical information in game and its ease of acquisition might make a decent topic for a new thread.

...If the Find out IC mantra wants to increase in pitch and fervor because I, Armaddict, learned about things that I knew happened but knew nothing about because it comes from before I -started- in 1998, then the mantra can flip out and increase.

But this was utterly harmless.  Even if I suddenly decided to talk about it IC, it would still be almost utterly harmless aside from the weird thought of 'where's this guy know this from?!', but I don't think anyone had plans for this when they asked for storytime aside from hearing the story.  And it was a good story.

Calm yo-selves.

Stories about stuff that old are hard to come by, whether you're on staff or not.  As someone already pointed out, there were no biographies back then (Arm was just one step above a hack and slash mud, and even that is sorta arguable) nor was there a request tool, nor were detailed records about that sort of thing really kept.

Even in the modern day, stuff will get lost unless someone bothers to write it down - which is an excellent plug for using the biography tool, especially if your PC gets involved in some neat stuff!

Quote from: seidhr on May 24, 2016, 06:38:37 PM
Stories about stuff that old are hard to come by, whether you're on staff or not.  As someone already pointed out, there were no biographies back then (Arm was just one step above a hack and slash mud, and even that is sorta arguable) nor was there a request tool, nor were detailed records about that sort of thing really kept.

Even in the modern day, stuff will get lost unless someone bothers to write it down - which is an excellent plug for using the biography tool, especially if your PC gets involved in some neat stuff!

Ever considered making a wiki? If Staff doesn't have time for it, I'm sure players/helpers would be more than happy to contribute.

Quote from: Iiyola on May 24, 2016, 06:43:34 PM

Quote from: seidhr on May 24, 2016, 06:38:37 PM
Stories about stuff that old are hard to come by, whether you're on staff or not.  As someone already pointed out, there were no biographies back then (Arm was just one step above a hack and slash mud, and even that is sorta arguable) nor was there a request tool, nor were detailed records about that sort of thing really kept.

Even in the modern day, stuff will get lost unless someone bothers to write it down - which is an excellent plug for using the biography tool, especially if your PC gets involved in some neat stuff!

Ever considered making a wiki? If Staff doesn't have time for it, I'm sure players/helpers would be more than happy to contribute.

There are already places players can contribute stuff on the site. From what I see, until recently it'd been a year or more since someone posted a log. Logs are cool, and after a year I think they're okay. Heck, there's a biography tool!

Quote from: Lizzie on May 24, 2016, 01:25:08 PM
Valeria, (stuff)

You (and some others) seem to be confusing my correction of a misstatement with a "find out IC" philosophy. I don't have a horse in that race. I just don't want some noob wandering in here and scrapping a historian/historian bard/some other concept on the basis of the misconception that historical events CANNOT be learned about in the game.

Quote from: valeria on May 24, 2016, 12:39:23 PM
We now seem to agree it's difficult but not impossible. Can we move on?

Quote from: valeria on May 24, 2016, 07:40:03 PM

Quote from: Lizzie on May 24, 2016, 01:25:08 PM
Valeria, (stuff)

You (and some others) seem to be confusing my correction of a misstatement with a "find out IC" philosophy. I don't have a horse in that race. I just don't want some noob wandering in here and scrapping a historian/historian bard/some other concept on the basis of the misconception that historical events CANNOT be learned about in the game.

Quote from: valeria on May 24, 2016, 12:39:23 PM
We now seem to agree it's difficult but not impossible. Can we move on?

A new player to Armageddon will never have heard of Thrain Ironsword, and will not know that there's anything of interest to learn about him. He will therefore not know that there's any reason to find out IC or learn about Thrain Ironsword - whether in or out of game, at all. Or about ANY other lore that isn't readily available on the armageddon.org website (and not here in the fora, since many new players don't even know to read the fora til after they've already started playing). For people who have never heard of these characters, or events, yes - it is impossible for them to find out IC.

It's like saying "it is absolutely possible to find out that cell phones contain gold" if you've never met anyone with a cell phone, and live in a remote village in a third world country where there exists no cell service, therefore no reason for anyone to enquire about cell phones.

Quote from: Lizzie on May 24, 2016, 10:15:03 PM

Quote from: valeria on May 24, 2016, 07:40:03 PM

Quote from: Lizzie on May 24, 2016, 01:25:08 PM
Valeria, (stuff)

You (and some others) seem to be confusing my correction of a misstatement with a "find out IC" philosophy. I don't have a horse in that race. I just don't want some noob wandering in here and scrapping a historian/historian bard/some other concept on the basis of the misconception that historical events CANNOT be learned about in the game.

Quote from: valeria on May 24, 2016, 12:39:23 PM
We now seem to agree it's difficult but not impossible. Can we move on?

A new player to Armageddon will never have heard of Thrain Ironsword, and will not know that there's anything of interest to learn about him. He will therefore not know that there's any reason to find out IC or learn about Thrain Ironsword - whether in or out of game, at all. Or about ANY other lore that isn't readily available on the armageddon.org website (and not here in the fora, since many new players don't even know to read the fora til after they've already started playing). For people who have never heard of these characters, or events, yes - it is impossible for them to find out IC.

It's like saying "it is absolutely possible to find out that cell phones contain gold" if you've never met anyone with a cell phone, and live in a remote village in a third world country where there exists no cell service, therefore no reason for anyone to enquire about cell phones.

Eh... I've only been playing about seven or eight months, only recently made a fora account, and I knew the name Thrain Ironsword. Trouble is I can't remember how the hell I did...

For all practical purposes, this thread has reached its logical end.

For all realistic purposes, IMO, the only way to "find out IC" about the history of specific past PCs, would be to track down and make an appointment with the player or old/Ex Staff members, go over to their house with a case of primo alcohol, sit em down, and pick their brains.

Even if you had a PC with R/W in all languages, access to ALL virtual and IC libraries and documents in the Known World, and your PC dedicated his/her life to researching past PCs, you'd still have very little luck finding out much - simply because no records exist from back then.

On a different and more positive note - please use Biographies to document everything your PC achieves (or bungles up) - someone 10 years down the line might want to find out about your PC ;)

And, on a slight derail here - what might be really cool some day - would be to have access to the Biography database of all the PCs, so one could actually cross-reference them by name/event/clan - and figure out what actually happened!

Quote from: BrokenRomance on May 24, 2016, 07:06:22 PM

Quote from: Iiyola on May 24, 2016, 06:43:34 PM

Quote from: seidhr on May 24, 2016, 06:38:37 PM
Stories about stuff that old are hard to come by, whether you're on staff or not.  As someone already pointed out, there were no biographies back then (Arm was just one step above a hack and slash mud, and even that is sorta arguable) nor was there a request tool, nor were detailed records about that sort of thing really kept.

Even in the modern day, stuff will get lost unless someone bothers to write it down - which is an excellent plug for using the biography tool, especially if your PC gets involved in some neat stuff!

Ever considered making a wiki? If Staff doesn't have time for it, I'm sure players/helpers would be more than happy to contribute.

There are already places players can contribute stuff on the site. From what I see, until recently it'd been a year or more since someone posted a log. Logs are cool, and after a year I think they're okay. Heck, there's a biography tool!

Yes but wikis are so much easier to keep track of.

Logs, while super interesting to read, can get messy and don't really get to the point, where wikis do.

I can't speak for staff as a whole but I personally don't want to watch a wiki like a hawk and make sure only appropriate things get posted, since it'd be public.

Quote from: seidhr on May 25, 2016, 11:33:55 AM
I can't speak for staff as a whole but I personally don't want to watch a wiki like a hawk and make sure only appropriate things get posted, since it'd be public.

I'm no wiki-guru, but I suspect you could set it so that only approved content gets posted.

Someone would still have to read everything to approve it, but it would be on their own schedule. No "watching like a hawk" necessary.

There is so much in this thread that makes me burn rage-hot that I do not know where to even direct my vitriol.

So I will fall back on the line I now use to flame, and point towards everyone who has ignored an in character bar story, a bard's tale, or some other bit of fucking ancient knowledge that I (and I can not be alone here) have honestly tried to pass on IC to new players in a justifiable manner.  So please, next time someone tries to tell a tale IC, you can feel better about spamcraftingly ignoring them, or finding another dwarf to bar brawl, or running off to spar.

And to all of those I say, "I appreciate your optimism."

If you want IC tales to be told IC, fucking act like it.

Quote from: Malifaxis on May 25, 2016, 01:37:30 PM
There is so much in this thread that makes me burn rage-hot that I do not know where to even direct my vitriol.

So I will fall back on the line I now use to flame, and point towards everyone who has ignored an in character bar story, a bard's tale, or some other bit of fucking ancient knowledge that I (and I can not be alone here) have honestly tried to pass on IC to new players in a justifiable manner.  So please, next time someone tries to tell a tale IC, you can feel better about spamcraftingly ignoring them, or finding another dwarf to bar brawl, or running off to spar.

And to all of those I say, "I appreciate your optimism."

If you want IC tales to be told IC, fucking act like it.

A-fucking-men.

Quote from: galatea on May 22, 2016, 09:15:52 PM
Thrain was a master of karate and friendship for everyone

I'm pretty sure this is correct.  The rest of this nonsense is wrong.  I bet Thrain didn't care about no IC lore crap, wtf who got time for that

Ridiculousness.

We'd better all get inflamed and enraged over someone asking about 25 year old events.  Because we have that whole 1 year rule for a reason.  We'd better rage out over people asking here instead of searching through the characters in game who are played by players who might know the story.  Unless the player knew the story but the character was not allowed.

We'd better get snarky as a staff member because someone made an inaccurate post.  I'm sure it caused you great pain and was a great detriment and just -needed- to be set straight.  You'd have been better off with a simple 'Actually...' that turned into impressing on r/w characters that their books and records were actually of much more value than they seemed.  -I- sure would have liked to know, with my r/w characters.

This thread -is- over.  The original question posed as now long since been answered.  Now everyone is getting pissed off at each other for literally no reason aside from 'Now you know something I would have liked to have you know some other way even though that has no bearing on anything.'

Edited to add everything besides 'Ridiculousness' which was my original post.

Well, it's an issue... or obviously is! How do we solve this?

Because people are having to choose between a killing up and learning about in game events. They feel compelled to ignore the lore that is available, though technically it might not be about Thrain, and would rather have coded gains so as to not be left behind? Either that, or they just think the RP involving learning about history is boring, which I could understand, but that doesn't mean they should then be privy to events if they aren't also willing to pursue it in game, does it?

But these thoughts are, probably, best for another thread. I hope no one thought I was being inflammatory, it is just something I see happen a lot -- I mean, ignoring the rp that might enlighten them.

(http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Jesse-Pinkman-Breaking-Bad-Drinking-Water.gif)

Quote from: seidhr on May 25, 2016, 11:33:55 AM
I can't speak for staff as a whole but I personally don't want to watch a wiki like a hawk and make sure only appropriate things get posted, since it'd be public.

I've played several games with all their own wiki, some with about 35 players and it all worked out. Nothing was abused and if there was an occasional griefer, they would be banned from their wiki.

What you could do is for players to send in their articles and then have a staffer update the wiki for instance. So players would still have access but they couldn't modify the contents.

This thread is kind of annoying me too, but for the opposite reasons Malifaxis mentions. Sorry Mal, but I'm just gonna lay this out here:

Raise your hand if any of your RP has involved Thrain Ironsword in the past five years. Anyone?

Let's make it ten. Any takers now?

It's been well over a decade since I started playing Armageddon, and even THEN Thrain Ironsword had been ancient history for ten years. I can confidently say, having played characters and played around characters in positions to know, his name did not come up in IC conversation even once. No bards, no storytellers, no templars, nothing.

I know that this being the GDB, I'm sure some contrarian will come along saying that they actually did have a discussion about Thrain IG and that's all well and good - that's great, even. But my point is that this sort of story has been ancient Armageddon legend for longer than the majority of us have even been here. It has certainly been legend for longer than any living character has been alive, and longer than any living character they could have known could have been alive, and on, about five times over.

We're outside "1 year rule" territory here by a huge margin. Let's have a "10-year rule". After 10 RL years, which is over an Age in game, discussing events that happened should be fair and allowed, no question. Or if you're uncomfortable with 10 years, we could even make it 20. What was going on in 1996?

There seems to be a concern that learning this stuff on the forum means characters would stop pursing it in game. I'm not sure I understand that. Like LauraMars said earlier, most veterans already end up playing characters who are vastly more ignorant about the world than they are. If someone wants to roleplay a bard or historian or loremaster, then I am sure they would already love the chance to interact in game and learn new things. And even if there was a 10-year rule in place, that leaves tons and tons and tons of stuff for their character to have to learn about.

Armageddon is an awesome, amazing vehicle to tell stories, and the best roleplay is done when we can keep those stories and associated plots pure and untainted by OOC information that could poison or ruin them. We all understand that, it's why we're playing here. I'm certainly not advocating that loosen that policy when it could possibly affect anything that happened recently in the game. But at the same time, I feel there should be a point where we as a community can feel free to discuss and reminisce and relate our stories with one another. It might inspire newbies, it's fun to hear the backstory of things, it helps old players reconnect, and it can just be a good read -- all of which we've seen in this very thread.

If this thread were about the Copper War, or Tyn Dashra or wanting the biographic information of a PC who lived in even the 21st Age, maybe I would take a different tune. But again, guys, this is a post asking for information about a character named Thrain Ironsword who's contemporaries were named things like Nathaniel and Caligula. It's from a totally bygone era of the game that many people are interested in knowing more about. I wish we'd be able to have these sorts of threads without arguing over if they should exist or not.

If it was going to be this one fucking thing, I would have less of a problem.

But it won't be this one fucking thing.  This thread right here will be cited in future knowledge requests, thanks to the way it panned out.

Also, I may be a contrarian in your eyes, but here I am raising my damn hand about Thrain.  Last 5 years.  It DOES happen.  Commonly?  No.  But it does.

If people would actively put down their pwndwarves and foreverkurac to actually listen to a tale IC, I would probably have to squeegee my screen, but after my last 4 storyteller style PCs went completely ignored for everyone running out for coded gain, I will be saving my squeegee money for after the fact.

Thrain Ironsword is a kick back to Arm's dirty past.  The fucking word iron is in it.

I saw a lovely post by Withered Ocotillo that should seem to satisfy the OP.  Who knows what the rest of this hulla bulla is about, but I'm assuming everyone knows Zalanthas has an oral tradition (one might say many such things), and there will always be folk heroes, both from the past and in the present.

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-JMDumfwF74s/T9Re_E-RbbI/AAAAAAAAATI/ODbpmrEQNl8/s1600/porkins.gif)

This thread exists for a single purpose: To discuss Thrain Ironsword.

If you don't want to discuss Thrain Ironsword, do not post here. Post elsewhere.

I will moderate any more off topic posts.

Thrain Ironsword once ate an entire brick of tho.

It made him blink.

There's no iron in the world because Thrain took all of it and made it in to a sword. With his bare hands.

Then a pickpocket stole it and junked it in front of him.

Quote from: BadSkeelz on May 25, 2016, 09:22:29 PM
There's no iron in the world because Thrain took all of it and made it in to a sword. With his bare hands.

Then a pickpocket stole it and junked it in front of him.

Liar.

That's too heavy to steal, they would surely notice.

Thrain had gone "nosave steal" in a misguided attempt to twink up his rebellions' pickpockets so they could steal slave keys from templar NPCs.

Today's version would be Thrain DualWieldingFeatheredHatchets.

Thrain is the name of a dwarf from The Hobbit. He was the father of Thorin, the dwarf most of you will know as the "lead dwarf" from the movie The Hobbit (and the book of course).

This reminds me of the time I had to report someone around ten years ago (or more) for walking into The Sanctuary as, "The ivory-haired, black-skinned elf".......his name was Zaknafein from The Dark Elf Trilogy.

lol

Quote from: Desertman on May 26, 2016, 08:35:46 AM
Thrain is the name of a dwarf from The Hobbit. He was the father of Thorin, the dwarf most of you will know as the "lead dwarf" from the movie The Hobbit (and the book of course).

This reminds me of the time I had to report someone around ten years ago (or more) for walking into The Sanctuary as, "The ivory-haired, black-skinned elf".......his name was Zaknafein from The Dark Elf Trilogy.

lol

What? No Drizzt?

Quote from: Iiyola on May 26, 2016, 10:38:03 AM

Quote from: Desertman on May 26, 2016, 08:35:46 AM
Thrain is the name of a dwarf from The Hobbit. He was the father of Thorin, the dwarf most of you will know as the "lead dwarf" from the movie The Hobbit (and the book of course).

This reminds me of the time I had to report someone around ten years ago (or more) for walking into The Sanctuary as, "The ivory-haired, black-skinned elf".......his name was Zaknafein from The Dark Elf Trilogy.

lol

What? No Drizzt?

They did have purple eyes but they went with Zaknafein.

Quote from: Iiyola on May 26, 2016, 10:38:03 AM

Quote from: Desertman on May 26, 2016, 08:35:46 AM
Thrain is the name of a dwarf from The Hobbit. He was the father of Thorin, the dwarf most of you will know as the "lead dwarf" from the movie The Hobbit (and the book of course).

This reminds me of the time I had to report someone around ten years ago (or more) for walking into The Sanctuary as, "The ivory-haired, black-skinned elf".......his name was Zaknafein from The Dark Elf Trilogy.

lol

What? No Drizzt?

Dude, you know I got away with Khal during GoT season 1  8)

Also got away with "Jailbait", and then I tried using some random name I made up but apparently that was a big no no because it was some sort of planet in the Dune universe.

Thrain personally punched all of the pronunciation out of dwarf speech.

Thrain Ironsword had chest hair and a beard so powerful and manly it deflected arrows and swords. Tektolnes' subsequent rage was so great he cursed all dwarves to be hairless forever more, as even the Highlord fears for an even greater dwarf to challenge him.

Thrain Ironsword was Chuck Norris.

Thrain Ironsword beat up Chuck Norris.

With ruff-circle.

Thrain Ironsword critically failed necksnap, and survived.

Thrain never had kids because his dong was too powerful, reel-locking all women he was with to death.

Hey now.

Dong size is find out IC.

thrain ironsword became the first super saiyan in history.

He was also the original cabbage. True story.

Little do people know that Thrain survived the seige of Allanak.

He escaped and made it to Luirs where he became an NPC guard for a while before Staff took him out during some game changes.

His talk script would having him explain that he used to be famous, but took an arrow to the knee.

i'm beginning to suspect i'm being had

behind thrain's beard is not a chin

it's just another focus

Quote from: Bogre on May 29, 2016, 11:36:29 AM
behind thrain's beard is not a chin

it's just another focus

This got me.

Legend goes that Thrain had a middle finger so large that he himself couldn't lift it.

It is believed by old housewives across the known, that if one says "Thrain Ironsword" into a mirror three times at midday on the anniversary of his death, Thrain will kill you.

Some facts about Red Fang Thrain

All Red Fangs have Thrain Ironsword had a heart of gold, really. 24k.

The skills Hide, sneak, an flee were instituted into the codebase to give armers a false sense of security after Red Fangs were Thrain Ironsword was introduced.

Armageddon's first incarnation has yet to end because a Red Fang npc Thrain Ironsword simply told the immortals that he wasn't bored yet.

The copper war in 1567 was not ended when Tuluki forces withdrew, but when a small pack of Red Fangs Thrain Ironsword showed up, annoyed that the noise of war had disturbed their sleep. They were given all the copper Tuluk collected as a formal apology while Allanak swore to protect the mines on Fang's Thrain's behalf from that day forward.

Most Red Fangs Thrain enjoyed a good game of Mek tipping now and again, the greatest part is they don't actually touch the Mek. They stare it down until it faints.

Red Fangs Thrain invented the half-elf

Zalanthas used to be primarily water. Then the tribe Thrain got thirsty.

Before the sorceror kings go to sleep, they check under their beds for Red Fangs Thrain.

A Red Fang child Thrain once promises himself to Tek as a slave in exchange for his rugged good looks and unparalleled badassery, shortly after the trade the young Red Fang Thrain bitch-slapped Tek and said he was going home. Tek, who appreciates irony, couldn't stay mad and admitted he should have seen it coming. They now meet to play Kruth every first Detal of every month.

Red Fangs Thrain can quit a footrace halfway through and still win.

Red Fangs Thrain Ironsword can dodge sand in a sandstorm.

Red Fangs Thrain Ironsword will be in Armageddon Reborn, once an Highlord attempted to delete the Red Fang Thrain Ironsword docs and that staffer was never heard of again. Not even the immortals have the courage to fuck with Red Fangs Thrain.

Rumor has it that when the world ends, everyone will die. However, Red Fangs Thrain Ironsword will not die.. they'll just be the reason the world ends.

A red fangs Thrain's mild-mannered alter ego: Tektolnes

If you have an argument with a Red Fang Thrain it won't last long. Not because Fangs have Thrain has a sense forgiveness, and understanding, but because you don't with your brain kicked in.

A Red Fang Thrain once traded with Kadius for a silk thong by offering a handful of lint, some sand, a palmful of Gimpka turds and one of the elf's his own teeth. That fabled elf recieved a wagon and a bronze dagger before the agent could let them go feeling fair about the trade.

The Silt Skimmer was invented as the only safe way for southerners to avoid Red Fangs Thrain ironsword.

A Red Fang Thrain once looked at steinal. Steinal, feeling threatened, buried itself beneath the desert.

Red Fangs Thrain didn't quit out, they'd just log back in occasionally to sort through the loot.

Sandstorms are the deserts way of trying to get away from Red Fangs Thrain Ironsword.

If at first you don't succeed, you're obviously not a Red Fang Thrain.

Red Fangs are Thrain is responsible for the name 'armageddon', it came about when a staffer listened in on one of the tribes first rpt's where they discussed future plans. Rumor has it that until that day the MUD could be found under the title "Quirri kittens and sunshine"

Red Fang members Thrain Ironsword got a unique login screen:

                               _______                                ___
                             /\\_____//~-_                        _-~\\__
                            (~)       ~-_ ~-_                  _-~ _-~  
                           (~)           ~-_ ~-_            _-~ /-~      
Welcome to Armageddon!     (~)              `~-_ ~_======_--~~ __~        
                         (~)               _~_\__\____/__/_--\ ~`-_  
                          \           _-~~            _-~~~-_ \_  ~-_  
You may:                    ~-       __--~`_    /   _-~         ~.     ~_
                                  -~        \     _~       ___,  \ ~-_  \
(w) Win armageddon               ,~ _-,       ~  _~         \   \  | , \ \  
(e) Enter Zalanthas             / /~/      -~   /            ~  /  /  \~  \
(r) Respawn                     | | \     _~    |        __-~  / _/  \~  '\
                               \ ~-_~   -   |  _      ~-____-~ .~  \~    |
                               /`.  __~~   ~   `_          __-~   \~    \~
                               \_ ~~   .  |  .   ~-____--~~   \ \_~   _/~  
                               /\___--~       ~--_      /   ____~ _/~~    
                               \         /        ~~~___  /     _-\\~\    
                               /\       /                   _-\~\\~\\~\    
                              / | \   \ | /    /         _-~ )\\~\\~\\~~\  
                             { /\ \             /      _~ \  ~`~~\\~~\\~~\
Read the documentation        { |\     __ _           _-\   \  \\~~\\~~\\~~\
menu before creating your     | ||~_ /`    ~\  /    _/~  )   | |\\~~\\~~\\~~
character, please.            | ||  \|"""""""|_ __-~     ;   | |~\\~~\\~~\\~
                             \ \\  ({"""""""}\\        _~  /  /~~\\~~\\~~\\


(https://media.giphy.com/media/1NLE06PXA9TIA/giphy.gif)

Awe shit son, Red Fang Facts. Where's that thread hiding? I can't find it in the search.

Quote from: evilcabbage on May 27, 2016, 07:50:40 PM
thrain ironsword became the first super saiyan in history.

This is true. The fact is though is that dwarves don't have hair, so nobody could tell.

Quote from: IAmJacksOpinion on June 02, 2016, 01:11:44 PM
Awe shit son, Red Fang Facts. Where's that thread hiding? I can't find it in the search.

http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,34113.0.html

I hate to admit I still get a pretty good laugh out of it.

Quote from: Withered Ocotillo on May 23, 2016, 11:20:23 AM
From the reports that I heard, the Allanaki slave mines fell fairly easily without defensive support from the main city of Allanak against the Ironsword army, and then the Ironsword clan took up position around Allanak, not allowing any travel in or out of the city.

This is the point at which Thrain died in combat; during the battle to free the slaves of the mines. How do I know? Because I had a character who was there. And who saw Wolf sleaze in, grab up what he could from Thrain's corpse, and run in true twink fashion.

The slaves were offered a choice to either join with the dwarves in besieging the city, or to travel aboard a wagon to a safe spot. Some did board and were taken to the oasis off the crumbling road in the Tablelands. The oasis actually opened up and they descended into it. My character never knew whether they had actually achieved safety, or whether they'd simply been swallowed up. Maybe it was some agreement with a great elemental, which entered the city at that time with the intent of striking at Tektolnes. There was an enormous sound heard of something being injured or dying, but that's all. No word on the fate of the elemental or how much success it had achieved, but obviously from the later appearance of the dragon to raise the siege, Tek survived.

People could not successfully fight fifteen foes at once in those days. The "rule of three" applied; one foe, ok, two foes, ok, three, they would pile on hits no matter who you were.

Quote from: Eyeball on June 04, 2016, 12:46:03 AM
The oasis actually opened up and they descended into it. My character never knew whether they had actually achieved safety, or whether they'd simply been swallowed up. Maybe it was some agreement with a great elemental, which entered the city at that time with the intent of striking at Tektolnes. There was an enormous sound heard of something being injured or dying, but that's all.

Crazy.  Did they all go "down" (i.e. of their own free will)?

Quote from: CodeMaster on June 05, 2016, 10:47:58 PM

Quote from: Eyeball on June 04, 2016, 12:46:03 AM
The oasis actually opened up and they descended into it. My character never knew whether they had actually achieved safety, or whether they'd simply been swallowed up. Maybe it was some agreement with a great elemental, which entered the city at that time with the intent of striking at Tektolnes. There was an enormous sound heard of something being injured or dying, but that's all.

Crazy.  Did they all go "down" (i.e. of their own free will)?

They did, although I forget how the message was passed along that it was a supposed safe haven, though.

A discussion with my smarter, better looking half produced an interesting tidbit that I felt was relevant to the "Make shit up" movement on this thread.

We were talking about written tradition vs oral tradition in real world cultures. Where cultures have a written tradition, people tend to adhere strictly to what was written down, even if it doesn't always make sense to do so. (Example, the 6,000 year old earth vs. carbon dating.) In the oral tradition, the stories changed quite dramatically and rapidly. The example she gave was an explorer who discovered an isolated tribe  and spent some time with them. While he was there, he wrote down a bunch of their stories in a journal and published them after he got back to civilization. 25-30 years pass, and he goes back to visit the village again, and the stories have changed completely. Like, a story that previously featured one protagonist, now had a pair of brothers. When he pointed out that this had changed, they denied it and said it had always been like that.

Zalanthas is probably some wierd hybrid of oral vs written. While the upper crust can read and write, it's highly unlikely they would record anything that painted the Highlord in a bad light. If someone did write a book about how Thrain actually held a siege around Allanak for a full year, that book should've been burnt long ago. If the name Thrain survives in ink at all, it would probably read like "This durf with only a 'Good' str score showed up at our gates, and Tek roasted him that day. Then the blue robes tea bagged him." I have a hard time buying that the templarate would let the knowledge go known that they were actually seiged at any point.

For the illiterate masses, any events they've witnessed personally would be forgotten or lost in the telling. Anything they know about Thrain would be the propaganda preached by the Templar, which is basically "Tek kicked his arse." There's simply no way a bard in modern Allanak could/would uncover an even remotely accurate description of Thrain's siege, and even if they did sharing that information should be a death sentence. History is written by the victor, after all.  

I'll buy that for a dollar.  Fuckin' no stat havin' dorf.

Just found this:

Quote from: SMuz on March 24, 2009, 11:28:06 AM
Because nobody tossed in a dwarf. Also, feel free to use it, but better mention it, else, there'd be a few guys running around with the same idea :P


Race: Dwarf
Focus: Dwarven unity

Origin: Anywhere, preferably a place with lots of c-elves

Appearance: Randomly generated

Background:
Spending much of his time observing c-elves, Dwarf has had an envy of how elves go everywhere together. Even without tribes, an elf will float towards a tribe.
Now if these rodents can be strong together, what's preventing a dwarf from doing the same thing.
They speak the same language, have the same look, heritage, and their own special culture.

Personality:
Highly patriotic. Racist against ALL non-dwarf races, but not openly. He'll try to "pull an elf" on humans, but an observant person will note that all his important hirelings are dwarves. He has an almost foolish trust for dwarves, but if betrayed by one, he'll respond with a great deal of blind anger and vengeance. He'll have a soft spot for those who know Mirukkim, including Templars. As a result of this, he'll still be a loyal citizen to whatever city he's from.

Guilds: Can be randomly generated
Warrior - A job as a general seems like the natural goal. He'll be looking to establish a dwarf fortress of some kind, or at the very least, try to form his own dwarf-only specialist unit and prove how strong dwarves can be if they work together.

Ranger - He'll be more of a survivor, explorer, archeologist. He'll look at trying to uncover whatever hidden past of dwarves, exploring to the reaches of the Known World, to prove that dwarves are indeed, the master race.

Merchant - He'll use guile and charm to get his way. Mostly, he'll be using his financial power to support rangers on expeditions, and use his influence to meet more dwarves, arrange a dwarven council, and other social stuff to organize some plan.

Pickpocket/burglar/assassin - Well, this will generally be useless - but generally, he'll be looking to free dwarven slaves, and even unbrainwash some of them. Either by wealth or by skill.

'Gicker - Possibly the worst choice; not much hope for anyone to respect him. Chances are, he'll be plotting before he gets the leash, then taken by shock when it's upon him as his friends and family start to shun him. Likely, he'll be frustrated and angry keeping to a smaller group of other dwarven 'gickers.

Sorcerer/Psionicist - Oh ho ho. What havoc can a hard-headed dwarf like him wreak?


Heh, if done right, this guy could even be the leader of a fascist movement.

Quote from: Marauder Moe on March 24, 2009, 01:41:51 PM

Quote from: SMuz on March 24, 2009, 11:28:06 AM
Because nobody tossed in a dwarf. Also, feel free to use it, but better mention it, else, there'd be a few guys running around with the same idea :P

Nobody tosses a dwarf!   :P

You've also described Thrain Ironsword.  Definitely the right idea.  Though, I'm curious as to whether or not uniting the dwarves was the PC's focus at character creation.

(Also, now that my own example has been marinating in my brain overnight, I actually am starting to feel a little interested in playing it.  ::) :)  Don't let that stop anyone if you like the idea too, though.)

It might give some background on the concept of the role.