People should get stained or dirty sitting in the Gaj or even pick of smell of vomit and urine ...I think that would keep a lot of the characters that shouldn't be hanging out their in the first place out. It would be even better if you could run the risk of getting lice from hanging out in there for too long. Maybe have a expensive de-licing powder at the herbalists shop you'd need to use to get ride of them..and while you have them get occasional echos about feeling your head itch (kinda like you get echos while on spice) or hems of the bugs crawling around in your hair..Just a random though :-*
I like this. +1
Eh. I get where you're coming from, and I think everyone does a collective eye roll when they see the tressy-tressed aide dripping silk just hanging out at the Zalanthan equivalent of a dirty biker bar.
But we're a small game, and we want to interact with other people, and the Gaj is "the bar" in Allanak. It's where you start play, it's home base. There are other bars in the city ... But to me it feels like they are utilised when you want to meet someone else in a semi-private setting.
Given all of that, I don't want to "punish" people for being in the Gaj. It strikes me as a playability issue.
Even as an aide "dripping silk" you have to develop contacts and hire people to do things, and listen for rumors, and you find them in the Gaj.
With the Atrium having become the place to hang out for the well-dressed set these days, the Red's doesn't have the traffic it did before the Atrium reopened. I'd like to see less of the upper crust commoner sorts hanging out in the Atrium, so they gather in the Red's again. And I'd like to see nobles in there too, like they used to be. It's like they're not public at all, holing up behind a clan wall all the time. It was better when people could gather and interact with them openly, without being members of the Atrium clan.
I don't blame them for gathering in the Atrium sometimes, it's nice to have the privacy and play with a small controlled group. But I don't think it's good for the game for them to stay away from the populace, even if it is more realistic. People want to play with them.
Until that happens, though, punishing people for going to the Gaj is just trying to force them into the Atrium.
Quote from: Refugee on October 02, 2015, 10:41:07 PM
Even as an aide "dripping silk" you have to develop contacts and hire people to do things, and listen for rumors, and you find them in the Gaj.
With the Atrium having become the place to hang out for the well-dressed set these days, the Red's doesn't have the traffic it did before the Atrium reopened. I'd like to see less of the upper crust commoner sorts hanging out in the Atrium, so they gather in the Red's again. And I'd like to see nobles in there too, like they used to be. It's like they're not public at all, holing up behind a clan wall all the time. It was better when people could gather and interact with them openly, without being members of the Atrium clan.
I don't blame them for gathering in the Atrium sometimes, it's nice to have the privacy and play with a small controlled group. But I don't think it's good for the game for them to stay away from the populace, even if it is more realistic. People want to play with them.
Until that happens, though, punishing people for going to the Gaj is just trying to force them into the Atrium.
That's so very sad, really. Red's goes through phases when it's busy - but it's like pulling teeth to keep it that way. No one should have to work hard to make that place busy. It has such a rich history that includes commoners who aren't dripping in silk - and since when has it been acceptable for commoners to be dripping in silk, other than GMH family members and *senior* aides of noble houses? It sounds like Allanak is becoming Tulukified. That makes me sad.
The dripping in silk comment was tongue in cheek. I haven't personally seen any aides walking around decked out in silks in Allanak. I never saw any in Tuluk either for that matter, even when playing a templar there.
But from time to time you do see people in the Gaj who look "too well dressed" to be in the Gaj. It happens, but since I've been playing in Allanak I've only see it a couple of times. It's normally just a bunch of bynners and rinithi rats with the odd militia soldier slumming through.
My experience with a noble was that when I was in Reds, no one would enter Reds.
Quote from: Erythil on October 03, 2015, 02:51:22 AM
My experience with a noble was that when I was in Reds, no one would enter Reds.
Being a noble must be super challenging. I'd hope to hell I find the right minions and fast.
Quote from: CodeMaster on October 03, 2015, 02:53:32 AM
Quote from: Erythil on October 03, 2015, 02:51:22 AM
My experience with a noble was that when I was in Reds, no one would enter Reds.
Being a noble must be super challenging. I'd hope to hell I find the right minions and fast.
It's only as challenging as the goals you set for yourself. I'm a bit of a perfectionist, so I constantly felt like I was failing, but really you're mostly there to provide flavor and context and jobs for people. Even if you're incompetent (which I thought I was), you're giving someone else the ability to have fun sticking it to the man.
Quote from: Erythil on October 03, 2015, 02:51:22 AM
My experience with a noble was that when I was in Reds, no one would enter Reds.
This is one of the things I like better about Tuluk. The nobility and to an extent even the templarate were more approachable for the common classes because of the culture and history of the city-state.
Allanak has a very different culture, and in that culture if you see a noble or a Templar you quietly try to go the other way and avoid attracting notice.
From a playability standpoint ... That makes a sponsored role in Allanak a bit more of a lonely one compared to what you can could get into up north.
... ... so basically yeah. If I see your noble sitting in Reds, odds are I'm not going in there unless I work for you. Because the last thing an average commoner wants is for a noble or templar to know they exist.
Quote from: musashi on October 03, 2015, 03:02:24 AM
Quote from: Erythil on October 03, 2015, 02:51:22 AM
My experience with a noble was that when I was in Reds, no one would enter Reds.
This is one of the things I like better about Tuluk. The nobility and to an extent even the templarate were more approachable for the common classes because of the culture and history of the city-state.
Allanak has a very different culture, and in that culture if you see a noble or a Templar you quietly try to go the other way and avoid attracting notice.
From a playability standpoint ... That makes a sponsored role in Allanak a bit more of a lonely one compared to what you can could get into up north.
... ... so basically yeah. If I see your noble sitting in Reds, odds are I'm not going in there unless I work for you. Because the last thing an average commoner wants is for a noble or templar to know they exist.
In my experience, in recent times, it's been less about the sponsored role themselves and more their underlings insisting that they, too, should not ever have to be exposed to the commoners of the world. The nobles, on average, are fairly tame in comparison.
I wasn't making a statement about anyone's play.
I was referring to the documentation that sets the culture for the two cities.
Because of the history surrounding the occupation the nobility of the North were closer to the commoners than the nobility of Allanak are.
From a playability standpoint, it made interaction between the sponsored roles and the common folk easier to do.
From what I see, there aren't that many people going into the Gaj when they shouldn't, and when those super clean aide PCs do come in, they seem to do well at not sticking around. I don't think characters need to be punished further for choosing to try to find PCs to interact with. It's hard enough to do that as it is, sometimes.
Also good to know what has Red's so empty. That's depressing.
I remember, after having played in Allanak forever, rolling a tuluki and being nervous around a northern Templar who was sitting in the Sanctuary smoking. He invited me to smoke with him and we just sat there, hanging out until I relaxed (something I knew I should have done sooner.)
Rp with nobles as an indie human commoner well... you can have fun, but it doesn't become a relaxed experience in any way. I don't know if things change for close-knit aides or people like that.
Subsequent events have shown it was wise not to relax around the northern Templarate ;D
I assume the Gaj patronage represents the standards of the average vpc commoner, so we have to roll with the behavior there as being "normal" ?
Quote from: solera on October 03, 2015, 03:51:40 PM
Subsequent events have shown it was wise not to relax around the northern Templarate ;D
I assume the Gaj patronage represents the standards of the average vpc commoner, so we have to roll with the behavior there as being "normal" ?
I think that people misunderstand the Gaj. The Gaj is essentially the shittiest bar in the Commons Quarter, which isn't a great neighborhood to begin with. Most of the players probably have a misunderstanding about what a "Dive Bar" is. There is a difference between a corner bar or a neighborhood bar, and a dive bar. What most people call a dive bar who've never been to one, is actually a neighborhood bar. A neighborhood bar is kind of like a run down place where you can grab a beer and hang out with your friends, it's not to fancy.
A dive bar is a place that one goes to meet prostitutes and to transact drug deals. Most employees of the GMH, including hunters and soldiers would be out of place at the Gaj.
The NPC who drink at the Gaj will be people who have been kicked out of every other bar in the neighborhood. These people aren't happy to be there, but they simply have a reputation and wouldn't be allowed anywhere else.
I like the original post. It should get brownie points for being the most metal post of the week. Other than those suggestions, I think it might make sense to move the starting location to the Red's, and for plenty of the playerbase to shift over there.
If the staff actually tried to implement that, I think people would have kittens. Musashi is right. People just really like the Gaj.
Quote from: ibusoe on October 03, 2015, 04:12:14 PM
I think that people misunderstand the Gaj. The Gaj is essentially the shittiest bar in the Commons Quarter, which isn't a great neighborhood to begin with. Most of the players probably have a misunderstanding about what a "Dive Bar" is.
My interpretation of what the Gaj is doesn't match up with yours. The Gaj and the Gladiator isn't a dive bar in my mind, it's the Zalanthian equivalent of a sports bar (with gladiator games being the sport). It just so happens that the Zalanthian equivalent of a sports bar, is about what you'd expect from the shittiest dive bar in the real world. A Zalanthian dive bar can be found in the 'rinth.
Noble and merchant house employees can easily go to the Gaj, but they're probably not going to want to wear their best outfit, and would probably be embarrassed if their noble found out.
It doesn't have to be the worst or the best. It's on the main road and part of the commons, so it's bound to get tons of traffic. Its smelly, dirty, often violent with brawls. That doesn't mean it's the shities place, or the best sports place, or anything really. It is what it is. And there probably 5 other taverns a lot like it in a city as big as Allanak.
Quote from: wizturbo on October 03, 2015, 04:46:36 PM
My interpretation of what the Gaj is doesn't match up with yours. The Gaj and the Gladiator isn't a dive bar in my mind, it's the Zalanthian equivalent of a sports bar (with gladiator games being the sport). It just so happens that the Zalanthian equivalent of a sports bar, is about what you'd expect from the shittiest dive bar in the real world. A Zalanthian dive bar can be found in the 'rinth.
Noble and merchant house employees can easily go to the Gaj, but they're probably not going to want to wear their best outfit, and would probably be embarrassed if their noble found out.
and
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on October 03, 2015, 04:58:58 PM
It doesn't have to be the worst or the best. It's on the main road and part of the commons, so it's bound to get tons of traffic. Its smelly, dirty, often violent with brawls. That doesn't mean it's the shities place, or the best sports place, or anything really. It is what it is. And there probably 5 other taverns a lot like it in a city as big as Allanak.
Hey, those are both good points. I've never looked at it that way. There I go, bringing my real life bias of shitty urban bars to Zalanthas, which has it's own style of shitty urban bars, LOL. Thanks for taking the time to explain it.
True dive bars are in the Rinth.
Quote from: musashi on October 03, 2015, 04:26:18 AM
I wasn't making a statement about anyone's play.
I was referring to the documentation that sets the culture for the two cities.
Because of the history surrounding the occupation the nobility of the North were closer to the commoners than the nobility of Allanak are.
From a playability standpoint, it made interaction between the sponsored roles and the common folk easier to do.
I didn't mean to insinuate it that way. It should be noted that when I say 'recently' I'm kind of on a different time scale, I'm not pointing out anyone actually 'recent'. However, I think that when Trader's was closed, people started making a conscious effort to turn the Red's into the new Trader's, which just...isn't accurate, and as there have been numerous posts pointing out why.
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on October 03, 2015, 04:58:58 PM
It doesn't have to be the worst or the best. It's on the main road and part of the commons, so it's bound to get tons of traffic. Its smelly, dirty, often violent with brawls. That doesn't mean it's the shities place, or the best sports place, or anything really. It is what it is. And there probably 5 other taverns a lot like it in a city as big as Allanak.
I pretty much think of it that way. It's not that it's the cleanest or dirtiest. It's dirty, as the scripting lets us know. But it's also the city's first stop for travelers, the sports bar (as wizturbo said), and a decent-middle-class housing building. It's just rowdy, is all. I dislike the idea that someone in nice clothes shouldn't be there altogether, but I do think they'd have to do so with the same mind as a breed going into the Red's. It's not -against the rule-, it's just that you're in a position where things -could- turn out to be not in your favor just by virtue of the patronage.
In the aide's case, it's spilled clothing, and a rough and gruff crowd who don't really care that you're a templar/noble's aide, or a merchant house crafter, or any of that. They want in your pants, they're drunk and you being snotty might get you hit, etc.
I know the Gaj is supposed to be filthy and awful, but really, it's the most accessible place to meet and interact with other PCs in the game. That's a really great thing.
We really don't need it to be more restrictive or punishing to hang out in. Instead, yes, let's work on making Red's (and nobles, and Atrium types) more accessible.
Quote from: wizturbo on October 03, 2015, 04:46:36 PM
Quote from: ibusoe on October 03, 2015, 04:12:14 PM
I think that people misunderstand the Gaj. The Gaj is essentially the shittiest bar in the Commons Quarter, which isn't a great neighborhood to begin with. Most of the players probably have a misunderstanding about what a "Dive Bar" is.
My interpretation of what the Gaj is doesn't match up with yours. The Gaj and the Gladiator isn't a dive bar in my mind, it's the Zalanthian equivalent of a sports bar (with gladiator games being the sport). It just so happens that the Zalanthian equivalent of a sports bar, is about what you'd expect from the shittiest dive bar in the real world. A Zalanthian dive bar can be found in the 'rinth.
Noble and merchant house employees can easily go to the Gaj, but they're probably not going to want to wear their best outfit, and would probably be embarrassed if their noble found out.
Everything about this.
Treating the Gaj as the equivalent of a 'rinth style dive bar means you really aren't paying attention to context within the gameworld. Or room descriptions.
The proximity to the gates and stables means it would be frequented largely by travellers, miners and merchants, as well as gmh employees due to people wanting to have a drink after a hard day's walk /ride and picking the closest bar, and merchants wanting to trade with said people.
It isn't the sort of place I see aides etc going to unless they are hipsters that enjoy irony. That being said players can play pcs however they want as long as it fits the gameworld. I would like a chance for vomit stains on cloaks etc though as long as it was really rare. Hilarious.
Quote from: Inks on October 04, 2015, 12:55:03 AM
The proximity to the gates and stables means it would be frequented largely by travellers, miners and merchants, as well as gmh employees due to people wanting to have a drink after a hard day's walk /ride and picking the closest bar, and merchants wanting to trade with said people.
It isn't the sort of place I see aides etc going to unless they are hipsters that enjoy irony. That being said players can play pcs however they want as long as it fits the gameworld. I would like a chance for vomit stains on cloaks etc though as long as it was really rare. Hilarious.
I think that's...exactly where aides should be. They are literally paid to mingle with these people so their Lord or Templar don't have to.
I guess that makes sense now you mention it..I am still not sure. But either way I said if am aide is there I am sure they have reasons and it isn't my place to judge.
Reds isn't really for nobles. Once upon a time before the Traders burned down Nobles were next to never in Reds. I think remember it actually been written down somewhere that Reds is the sort of Place a noble would only go in on a dare. I do remember a time when the Bards Barrel was were most players hung out. The only people I think you should see in the Gaj are Byner, breeds, elves and gemmed. Everyone else should hanging around Reds...save the nobles..Maybe I'm an old school snob like that but I miss the days when Noble would get verbally ripped to shreds by his or her peers for visiting places like that.
A couple of the places I went to in India had these "upper deck" sections where the food/ticket prices are much higher (something like triple?), but the seats and cutlery are better and you might even get air conditioning. All in the same restaurant! I could see the Gaj doing something similar with a second floor or a sectioned off booth.
I think it's probably healthy for the game to have these kinds of social hubs or bottlenecks that bring players into contact with each other.
I do think there should likely be an upper class tavern and lower class tavern and that its in regards to the size of the player base..However as it stands I just don't think Reds qualifies as anything remotely near an upper class establishment. I certainly would rather be bored and alone then be caught dead in there where i playing a noble pc. At the same time I think the Gaj should be kept the filthy rat hole it is. Anyone who spent he vast majority of their time around Estate or in cleaner environments is going to throwing up in their mouth a little every time they pass the place just from the stench.
Quote from: Bast on October 04, 2015, 02:29:24 AM
Reds isn't really for nobles. Once upon a time before the Traders burned down Nobles were next to never in Reds. I think remember it actually been written down somewhere that Reds is the sort of Place a noble would only go in on a dare. I do remember a time when the Bards Barrel was were most players hung out. The only people I think you should see in the Gaj are Byner, breeds, elves and gemmed. Everyone else should hanging around Reds...save the nobles..Maybe I'm an old school snob like that but I miss the days when Noble would get verbally ripped to shreds by his or her peers for visiting places like that.
Before Trader's burned down, there was Trader's. Commoner PCs were codedly able to go inside (except for elves, I believe), to meet with their noble bosses or potential bosses for interviews, or to bring news, or to bring products that the noble was buying from them.
Now that Trader's no longer exists, there is only the Atrium and the Arboretum. In both cases, commoners who aren't either members of the Atrium themselves, or escorted in by those nobles themselves, are not codedly able to get in to meet with those nobles. There exists no such place, except Red's or the Gaj, or the Silver Ginka. The Ginka might as well not exist, since no one ever "hangs out" there, ever. Sometimes someone will go there hoping to get other people to hang out there, but it always fails, and it becomes "that place where you can buy a cup of tea for the noble who is hanging out somewhere else" again.
The situation has changed, and now Red's is the most appropriate place for a noble to meet commoners. And yes, sometimes they do need to meet them.
This discussion comes up a lot, doesn't it?
I don't think it's horrid for nobles to hang out at the Red's as long as they treat it appropriately, aka acknowledge that they are slumming, complain, be condescending about the "rustic" or "quaint" atmosphere, etc. Some of them may actually enjoy it, you know, watching the commoner in his natural habitat and all. Aren't they amusing? It's not really fair to say that a noble would never go to a place so far beneath them or the lifestyle to which they are accustomed. If they've been sheltered their entire lives, perhaps they're curious about how the other half lives. Perhaps being a bit slummy is part of the character. Maybe they loathe every moment of it, but it's SO important to them to personally get their face out there and become beloved to the common rabble that they're willing to stomach it. There are some nobles that would be shocked and appalled at being spotted in such a place, and there are others that would be fine with it, even enjoy it. I've even seen groups of noble NPCs, from multiple Houses, conversing with noble PCs at the Red's.
Also, the fact that some nobles are (v)NPCs and some are PCs has an IG explanation, and it's called "being public." PCs are "public" nobles. They're expected to mingle with commoners a bit more than Lord Slackjaw who loafs around in his estate all day and drops by the Atrium for the occasional cream tart. The extent to which each noble player takes this is up to the them, and of course may open them up for many a pointed barb from a rival. If your noble PC personally thinks it should be verboten, I think it's more of a matter to be resolved IC rather than discouraged OOC: shame the Red's-sitters!
Quote from: Beethoven on October 04, 2015, 09:18:00 AM
Some of them may actually enjoy it, you know, watching the commoner in his natural habitat and all.
THIS PLACE IS SO AUTHENTIC
Quote from: Armaddict on October 04, 2015, 12:56:27 AM
Quote from: Inks on October 04, 2015, 12:55:03 AM
The proximity to the gates and stables means it would be frequented largely by travellers, miners and merchants, as well as gmh employees due to people wanting to have a drink after a hard day's walk /ride and picking the closest bar, and merchants wanting to trade with said people.
It isn't the sort of place I see aides etc going to unless they are hipsters that enjoy irony. That being said players can play pcs however they want as long as it fits the gameworld. I would like a chance for vomit stains on cloaks etc though as long as it was really rare. Hilarious.
I think that's...exactly where aides should be. They are literally paid to mingle with these people so their Lord or Templar don't have to.
I never thought the gripe was about whether an aide is hanging out in the Gaj or not.
I thought the gripe was about "ignoring the setting" by hanging out there in expensive clean clothing and not role playing having your stuff get puked/pissed/bled on ...
Quote from: LauraMars on October 04, 2015, 09:40:04 AM
Quote from: Beethoven on October 04, 2015, 09:18:00 AM
Some of them may actually enjoy it, you know, watching the commoner in his natural habitat and all.
THIS PLACE IS SO AUTHENTIC
<3
My take is that the Gaj is inappropriate for nobles. It is inappropriate for a a certain rank of GMH employee to make their main hang out (though they might need to go their occassionally for business reasons, but would probably prefer not when they don't need to.) It's inappropriate to be there if your employer has told you not to go (or teacher or superior.)
You wouldn't want to dress up to go there. You'd feel out of place. You'd worry about what you might sit in or get spilled or vomited or otherwise ejected onto you. Your nice clothes are at risk there. Mostly, you'd feel like an idiot. You'd be over dressed. Like wearing a ballgown for mcdonalds.
Quote from: musashi on October 04, 2015, 09:50:54 AM
Quote from: Armaddict on October 04, 2015, 12:56:27 AM
Quote from: Inks on October 04, 2015, 12:55:03 AM
The proximity to the gates and stables means it would be frequented largely by travellers, miners and merchants, as well as gmh employees due to people wanting to have a drink after a hard day's walk /ride and picking the closest bar, and merchants wanting to trade with said people.
It isn't the sort of place I see aides etc going to unless they are hipsters that enjoy irony. That being said players can play pcs however they want as long as it fits the gameworld. I would like a chance for vomit stains on cloaks etc though as long as it was really rare. Hilarious.
I think that's...exactly where aides should be. They are literally paid to mingle with these people so their Lord or Templar don't have to.
I never thought the gripe was about whether an aide is hanging out in the Gaj or not.
I thought the gripe was about "ignoring the setting" by hanging out there in expensive clean clothing and not role playing having your stuff get puked/pissed/bled on ...
I have no idea why you keep taking my replies to individual portions of the discussion and trying to make what's said in them irrelevant to the main discussion while somehow ignoring that I quote what they -are- relevant to. I spoke to someone stating that it's not the Aide's kind of place, where, by virtue of their job, it can be very necessary for them to go there and be there, which makes that statement untrue.
If you want to wrest that back into the main conversation rather than the segue that was meant to show a clear contradiction to a base point of their argument, then we're going back to the argument of the room description/setting of the Bar. Which I think other people already put insightful discussion into, and if you want to focus on that, you should likely quote them instead of me with discussion on said setting.
So the answer to what you said with me quoted is 'yes, but so?', basically.
Quote from: Bast on October 04, 2015, 02:29:24 AM
Reds isn't really for nobles. Once upon a time before the Traders burned down Nobles were next to never in Reds. I think remember it actually been written down somewhere that Reds is the sort of Place a noble would only go in on a dare. I do remember a time when the Bards Barrel was were most players hung out. The only people I think you should see in the Gaj are Byner, breeds, elves and gemmed. Everyone else should hanging around Reds...save the nobles..Maybe I'm an old school snob like that but I miss the days when Noble would get verbally ripped to shreds by his or her peers for visiting places like that.
Well, going by former and current room descriptions, the Reds was very much upgraded relative to the old Bard's Barrel. It's actually posh now. Although for some reason, the elf's shop to the south, which in an ill-stocked way supplied performers for the Barrel, was never detached from the Red's (even though the stage was removed).
Quote from: Armaddict on October 04, 2015, 05:05:30 PM
I have no idea why you keep taking my replies to individual portions of the discussion and trying to make what's said in them irrelevant to the main discussion while somehow ignoring that I quote what they -are- relevant to. I spoke to someone stating that it's not the Aide's kind of place, where, by virtue of their job, it can be very necessary for them to go there and be there, which makes that statement untrue.
If you want to wrest that back into the main conversation rather than the segue that was meant to show a clear contradiction to a base point of their argument, then we're going back to the argument of the room description/setting of the Bar. Which I think other people already put insightful discussion into, and if you want to focus on that, you should likely quote them instead of me with discussion on said setting.
So the answer to what you said with me quoted is 'yes, but so?', basically.
I think you've misconstrued my commentary as an attack on you, which wasn't the intention. I was agreeing with you, and then adding for clarification that I think the real issue isn't who has what rank or title, but rather who is wearing what while there.
I could even theoretically see (thought somewhat uncommon and not really playable given our game setup and player base size) a noble dressing up in common rags for the thrill of slumming it up and going to hang out in the Gaj in secret.
Guys, focus on the discussion please.
I'm not sure but the elf in the Red's was put in even after it was rebuilt as a joke. Although I'd need verification from one of the involved parties and I haven't seen ale six in a donkey's age.
Quote from: Tuannon on October 05, 2015, 05:27:19 AM
I'm not sure but the elf in the Red's was put in even after it was rebuilt as a joke. Although I'd need verification from one of the involved parties and I haven't seen ale six in a donkey's age.
The shop south of Red's that shares the southern/northern wall of the building has been there since it was the Bard's Barrel. There used to be a dwarf in the Barrel that used to play songs (some rather bawdy, some actually known as northern), and it was presumed that the artistic props and instruments were purchased at that shop.
There is also still a gypsy who sells brandy upstairs, and the room descriptions depict a somewhat common crowd. It's basically a cleaner, better kept Gaj that doesn't allow brawling. It's a place where commoners of various types should be hanging out - rinthis, northerners, and Byn runners probably would not be welcome unless asked, and the gemmed might possibly be tolerated until a noble shows up.
There's already been posts about this - but by all means check the submissions logs about a particular incident in the Barrel involving a unit of Arm soldiers and Lord Templar Samos, and a kalan fruit. It should be known by anyone in Allanak that Red's was renamed to honor its benefactor, Samos the Red.
Due to the lack of a Trader's alternative (where commoners don't need escort to get past the door-guard), Red's should be the catch-all - where nobility and templarate, and the "less miserable" commoner types all meet. The Allanak version of the Sanctuary. Unfortunately, the Atrium seems to have stripped most of the RP from Red's, and placed it behind a door guard where the "less miserable" commoner types have no entry. So they all end up in the Gaj, even though they might not feel comfortable there. The players seem to have shoved aside the strict keeping with the environment, for playability. Can't say as I blame them. If the Atrium closed down, perhaps Red's would be more popular.
I think the right division isn't by social rank so much as by mentality:
The Red's is for commoners who do not want to get in a bar fight.
The Gaj is for commoners who do want to get in a bar fight.
Or for people who live upstairs and don't feel like walking across town for a drink.
Or for PCs who actually want to run into other PCs.
Quote from: Alesan on October 05, 2015, 10:09:07 AM
Or for PCs who actually want to run into other PCs.
Yes, this is how it is now. It wasn't always exclusively this way. It used to be that, plus Red's, both sharing PCs who want to run into other PCs. Red's used to be fairly popular, back when it was the Barrel. Back before Trader's was destroyed, and back before the Atrium reopened.
That's the point of this thread. To discuss the whys and wherefores of the popularity of the Gaj, even though according to the room description and the room echoes, it is not some place where people wearing fine clothing and possessed of "classy" manners would want to hang out in. They do anyway, because of OOC playability.
Also regarding the too lazy to walk to another bar for a drink - there are four other apartment buildings in the city available for PCs. Only one of them is occupied by people who typically should be expected to hang out in the Gaj. Two of the other three are occupied by people who typically would hang out in Red's. The third is not defined as such, but is -much- closer to Red's than it is to the Gaj. So laziness only accounts for the people who occupy the Gaj and that first building, but doesn't account for any of the other three buildings.
I think the playerbase is probably still too small for both the Gaj and Red's to be common hangouts anyway. Even during peak hours.
Quote from: Alesan on October 05, 2015, 10:53:04 AM
I think the playerbase is probably still too small for both the Gaj and Red's to be common hangouts anyway. Even during peak hours.
It really isn't. Back when the Barrel was popular, there were fewer players, on and off-peak. In fact, back then, there were three bars open and all three saw its share of PC occupation on a regular basis. Trader's was more exclusive - both due to RP and due to code - elves were not able to enter at all without being escorted in, and the only Bynners you'd see there were new players who didn't know better, and Sergeants who were summoned there to meet with nobility and templarate. So there were usually much fewer people in Trader's than in the Barrel and the Gaj. The Gaj also had apartments on top, at the time, so even then - laziness had little to do with anything, since there were people who lived on top of the Gaj who frequented the Barrel. And there were people who lived next door to the Barrel (when it was a run-down tenement house) who frequented the Gaj.
I am of the firm belief that the Atrium is at fault for removing both nobility and templarate from the routine view of the rest of the playerbase, and restricting it almost exclusively to themselves, and their aides, and anyone who is employed by the Atrium. And all of those people tend to spend more time amongst themselves in the Atrium or their apartments, and less time anywhere else. All of those people, are the same people you might typically see at Red's. And so - Red's is a ghost town and the Gaj becomes the catch-all.
Either way, it appears we're stuck with it. Unless enough people "be the change" in-game that it changes in any significant way. But I'm not expecting that to happen. People who don't want to run into nobles and templars will stay in the Gaj. Those that don't mind it are isolating themselves from the rest of the playerbase anyway. Seems to be the status quo.
Maybe that's why the playerbase seems so small. A large group of it are hiding behind a magic curtain.
Quote from: Lizzie on October 05, 2015, 10:37:10 AM
Quote from: Alesan on October 05, 2015, 10:09:07 AM
Or for PCs who actually want to run into other PCs.
Yes, this is how it is now. It wasn't always exclusively this way. It used to be that, plus Red's, both sharing PCs who want to run into other PCs. Red's used to be fairly popular, back when it was the Barrel. Back before Trader's was destroyed, and back before the Atrium reopened.
That's the point of this thread. To discuss the whys and wherefores of the popularity of the Gaj, even though according to the room description and the room echoes, it is not some place where people wearing fine clothing and possessed of "classy" manners would want to hang out in. They do anyway, because of OOC playability.
Also regarding the too lazy to walk to another bar for a drink - there are four other apartment buildings in the city available for PCs. Only one of them is occupied by people who typically should be expected to hang out in the Gaj. Two of the other three are occupied by people who typically would hang out in Red's. The third is not defined as such, but is -much- closer to Red's than it is to the Gaj. So laziness only accounts for the people who occupy the Gaj and that first building, but doesn't account for any of the other three buildings.
At least one of those buildings (the one closest to the Red's) can't be rented by unaffiliated rif-raff, so if you're unaffiliated rif-raff, it's the Gaj for you!
Quote from: Delirium on October 05, 2015, 12:42:33 PM
Quote from: Lizzie on October 05, 2015, 10:37:10 AM
Quote from: Alesan on October 05, 2015, 10:09:07 AM
Or for PCs who actually want to run into other PCs.
Yes, this is how it is now. It wasn't always exclusively this way. It used to be that, plus Red's, both sharing PCs who want to run into other PCs. Red's used to be fairly popular, back when it was the Barrel. Back before Trader's was destroyed, and back before the Atrium reopened.
That's the point of this thread. To discuss the whys and wherefores of the popularity of the Gaj, even though according to the room description and the room echoes, it is not some place where people wearing fine clothing and possessed of "classy" manners would want to hang out in. They do anyway, because of OOC playability.
Also regarding the too lazy to walk to another bar for a drink - there are four other apartment buildings in the city available for PCs. Only one of them is occupied by people who typically should be expected to hang out in the Gaj. Two of the other three are occupied by people who typically would hang out in Red's. The third is not defined as such, but is -much- closer to Red's than it is to the Gaj. So laziness only accounts for the people who occupy the Gaj and that first building, but doesn't account for any of the other three buildings.
At least one of those buildings (the one closest to the Red's) can't be rented by unaffiliated rif-raff, so if you're unaffiliated rif-raff, it's the Gaj for you!
That's rich middle-class unaffiliated riff-raff to you!
You should only get stuff on you if you have the ability to beat up the person getting stuff on you.
A nobleman swaggering into the Gaj should have a small army with him, all Guarding him, diving in the path of vomiting blokes and putting boots to faces of those who get near the wealthy fellow.
There should be a 'Wealthy' part of the bar that people can pay a Small to get into that sells slightly higher quality booze and is generally much cleaner, with free passes for Mercenaries (Troopers or above) , Arm of the Dragon (No recruits!) , Templars, Nobility, and members of Merchant Houses (not new members). To separate the 'rabble' from the more socially powerful.
Just a single room, below the main one, so it's within shouting range to get folks attention and so you can look into the rooms. Make it possible to sneak in, if you're good enough, but if you're caught trying to sneak in, you get a slap upside the head by the 'Burly, fat-nosed bouncer' standing guard.
The pendulum swings...
Get a few high profile PC's that start hanging out in Red's Retreat, and it'll be crowded again. The Gaj is just one of the bars that's popular by default.
Quote
A pungent odor of vomit and stale piss fills the stale air.
That said, in the last two years, I've seen very few in the Gaj that looked out of place.
I have noticed a pretty huge lack of PC patrons in Red's in the last few months (or so), and in general a lack of aides and nobles pretty much anywhere public.
This could be, as Lizzie suggests, owing to the Atrium as an option, or it could just be a lack of noble and aide PCs, and the whole pendulum swing thing. It's hard to tell.
Quote from: nauta on October 05, 2015, 03:12:16 PM
Quote
A pungent odor of vomit and stale piss fills the stale air.
That said, in the last two years, I've seen very few in the Gaj that looked out of place.
I have noticed a pretty huge lack of PC patrons in Red's in the last few months (or so), and in general a lack of aides and nobles pretty much anywhere public.
This could be, as Lizzie suggests, owing to the Atrium as an option, or it could just be a lack of noble and aide PCs, and the whole pendulum swing thing. It's hard to tell.
The recent noble rolecall could lead to more activity in Reds, who knows?
Quote from: Delirium on October 05, 2015, 12:42:33 PM
Quote from: Lizzie on October 05, 2015, 10:37:10 AM
Quote from: Alesan on October 05, 2015, 10:09:07 AM
Or for PCs who actually want to run into other PCs.
Yes, this is how it is now. It wasn't always exclusively this way. It used to be that, plus Red's, both sharing PCs who want to run into other PCs. Red's used to be fairly popular, back when it was the Barrel. Back before Trader's was destroyed, and back before the Atrium reopened.
That's the point of this thread. To discuss the whys and wherefores of the popularity of the Gaj, even though according to the room description and the room echoes, it is not some place where people wearing fine clothing and possessed of "classy" manners would want to hang out in. They do anyway, because of OOC playability.
Also regarding the too lazy to walk to another bar for a drink - there are four other apartment buildings in the city available for PCs. Only one of them is occupied by people who typically should be expected to hang out in the Gaj. Two of the other three are occupied by people who typically would hang out in Red's. The third is not defined as such, but is -much- closer to Red's than it is to the Gaj. So laziness only accounts for the people who occupy the Gaj and that first building, but doesn't account for any of the other three buildings.
At least one of those buildings (the one closest to the Red's) can't be rented by unaffiliated rif-raff, so if you're unaffiliated rif-raff, it's the Gaj for you!
That's the point. The people who rent there, will not find it easier to hang out in the Gaj, because the Barrel is right next door. The Atrium is even further away, but for whatever reason - these people are choosing to hang out in the Gaj or the Atrium, instead of the most convenient spot - the building next door to their own. So again - the "laziness" point doesn't apply to them. In addition as I said - two more buildings, both of which are even further away from the Gaj, are available for rent - one to GMH clanned PCs and the other to anyone including "unaffiliated riff-raff." And yet - they all choose to hang out in the most inconvenient hang-out spot in comparison to those apartment building locations.
The Gaj sells drinks served in gith skulls. Does any more need to be said?
Quote from: Taijan on October 05, 2015, 07:55:28 PM
The Gaj sells drinks served in gith skulls. Does any more need to be said?
Red's serves hell-in-a-gourd. What's your point?
There's also at least one skull (or possibly a fuckton, it's been awhile) in the Red's.
And at one point there were dead bards in all the barrels.
Quote from: Alesan on October 05, 2015, 08:27:12 PM
Quote from: Taijan on October 05, 2015, 07:55:28 PM
The Gaj sells drinks served in gith skulls. Does any more need to be said?
Red's serves hell-in-a-gourd. What's your point?
That the popularity of a tavern is directly proportional to the number of drinks it serves in a skull. Since that number is potentially unlimited for the Gaj - the Gaj wins.
Quote from: Taijan on October 05, 2015, 09:08:51 PM
Quote from: Alesan on October 05, 2015, 08:27:12 PM
Quote from: Taijan on October 05, 2015, 07:55:28 PM
The Gaj sells drinks served in gith skulls. Does any more need to be said?
Red's serves hell-in-a-gourd. What's your point?
That the popularity of a tavern is directly proportional to the number of drinks it serves in a skull. Since that number is potentially unlimited for the Gaj - the Gaj wins.
What if the popularity of a tavern is directly proportional to the number of drinks it serves in a miniature barrel?
Were that so, then the Gaj wouldn't be the popular tavern. But it is. Therefore skull cups = the determining factor for success.
Except it has nothing to do with skull cups and a lot to do with what's already been mentioned in the thread. So.
Quote from: Alesan on October 05, 2015, 09:33:04 PM
Except it has nothing to do with skull cups and a lot to do with what's already been mentioned in the thread. So.
oOoOoO(THE JOKE)OoOoOo
(o.o) <---- Your head.
Quote from: AdamBlue on October 06, 2015, 01:00:53 AM
Quote from: Alesan on October 05, 2015, 09:33:04 PM
Except it has nothing to do with skull cups and a lot to do with what's already been mentioned in the thread. So.
oOoOoO(THE JOKE)OoOoOo
(o.o) <---- Your head.
Hur hur hur hur. Thanks for the antagonizing.
I got the joke. I just didn't care for it.
Wow. How dare Taijan make a joke on the GDB about such a serious issue that effects the lives of hundreds of players. How insensitive do you get?!
So to get back on topic, the Gaj's success is clearly a game balance issue. This is due to the potency of the drinks served there (not the container...how dare you...) relative to the potency per coin spent of the brews at Reds. Players want to maximize their alcohol skill with as little cost as possible and the Gaj obliges. Gith skull brew is OP in its potency. Nerf needed. Staff please consider this a top priority.
How dare I take something even a little seriously on the GDB! I best be as hardassed as my characters in-game, because this is fucking Armageddon IRL!
I had a feeling someone would take it further. Thanks for playing along.
EDIT: don't really care if ppl thing I'm off-topic, Hunzel und Gretyl uber alis!
Additional Edit: Sorry for partying!
Quote from: Alesan on October 06, 2015, 12:26:55 PM
How dare I take something even a little seriously on the GDB! I best be as hardassed as my characters in-game, because this is fucking Armageddon IRL!
I had a feeling someone would take it further. Thanks for playing along.
Frankly you're trying too hard to be funny.
On topic, please.
Edit: referring to the last few posts, mainly, not the semi-jokepost about the drinks. The Gaj does have a better drink list.
I was actually making a legit point, while trying to make Alesan look hardcore.
The Gaj has all kinds of drink options that frankly sound way more appealing than Red's Retreat, despite it being a classier joint. From a coin per drink perspective... Gaj wins, from a quality of drinks offered vs. their price, Gaj wins. Seems kinda wonky, even if you ignore the OP Gith Skull cup.
For poor commoners, the idea of paying more for a drink, regardless of where it's served, probably matters.
Quote from: wizturbo on October 06, 2015, 02:09:21 PM
I was actually making a legit point, while trying to make Alesan look hardcore.
Please don't. I can appreciate the initial response to me being "way too serious" on the GDB, but at this point you just look like a bully.
Sorry for being off-topic. Again.
Quote from: wizturbo on October 06, 2015, 02:09:21 PM
I was actually making a legit point, while trying to make Alesan look hardcore.
The Gaj has all kinds of drink options that frankly sound way more appealing than Red's Retreat, despite it being a classier joint. From a coin per drink perspective... Gaj wins, from a quality of drinks offered vs. their price, Gaj wins. Seems kinda wonky, even if you ignore the OP Gith Skull cup.
For poor commoners, the idea of paying more for a drink, regardless of where it's served, probably matters.
I've always been surprised about the lack of good booze in the Red's. Well there's brandy upstairs but that's not really very impressive. And then there's Agvat, some crap you'd expect in the Gaj.
I really think Reds should be the default place for most pcs to hang out with the exception of the nobility. When the barrel stayed packed it would clear out when a noble walked in as anyone looking to avoid their noticed sulked out the nearest exit after a quick bow. People looking to be hired by aides and merchants -should- be sitting around in Reds. Aides shouldn't be having to go into the Gaj to find them . I'd honestly like to see the Atrium open up a membership for the merchant class as well and better replace the traders inn but that just my humble opinion. I really do wish reds was the starting tavern as well. I've never understood why it's the Gaj, save maybe its location on Caravan
Ginka forbid we should de-grittify Allanak.
Quote from: Bast on October 06, 2015, 03:19:00 PM
I really think Reds should be the default place for most pcs to hang out with the exception of the nobility. When the barrel stayed packed it would clear out when a noble walked in as anyone looking to avoid their noticed sulked out the nearest exit after a quick bow. People looking to be hired by aides and merchants -should- be sitting around in Reds. Aides shouldn't be having to go into the Gaj to find them . I'd honestly like to see the Atrium open up a membership for the merchant class as well and better replace the traders inn but that just my humble opinion. I really do wish reds was the starting tavern as well. I've never understood why it's the Gaj, save maybe its location on Caravan
The Atrium expanding isn't going to help anything, it's just going to make Red's even more deserted. The fact is though, this isn't a hard "problem" to solve. Get a few popular PC's to hang out in Reds and bam...it'll have people. There's a certain critical mass required for people to stop in and sit at Reds, if it's empty, no one will stay. If three are 2-3 people, they'll check it out.
Secret spice salesman in the Reds, that costs a large just to go see, before you can buy spice for high prices.
Quote from: wizturbo on October 06, 2015, 12:19:40 PM
Wow. How dare Taijan make a joke on the GDB about such a serious issue that effects the lives of hundreds of players. How insensitive do you get?!
So to get back on topic, the Gaj's success is clearly a game balance issue. This is due to the potency of the drinks served there (not the container...how dare you...) relative to the potency per coin spent of the brews at Reds. Players want to maximize their alcohol skill with as little cost as possible and the Gaj obliges. Gith skull brew is OP in its potency. Nerf needed. Staff please consider this a top priority.
IC attempts were made to get the prices lowered and more of a selection but nothing came of it.
I played a bastard who never visited the gaj expect once on a special occasion. It's still possible to meet people even if you don't visit the tavern.
It would be nice if social denigration of living and playing there was played up some more. And now that there is a higher population in Allanak, I don't think playability is a good excuse.
Quote from: Barzalene on October 04, 2015, 04:57:43 PM
Like wearing a ballgown for mcdonalds a dirty-ass bikers' bar.
Its very easy to be an aide and meet all the people you need to know to do your job without ever setting foot in the Gaj. I have played alot of aides..All of them lived until I stored them and a few of them lasted a couple years IRL. I have NEVER had an issue hiring people and meeting shady folks and I have never walked an aide into the Gaj save to buy whiskey...because you know Flame cheese...Its not hard at all to hire the people you need to hire or to make contacts without walking in there. In fact it pretty easy. I have no idea why anyone would ever use that as an excuse honestly.
Quote from: Bast on October 07, 2015, 11:49:57 AM
I have no idea why anyone would ever use that as an excuse honestly.
Login, sit in Red's for 15 minutes, no one stops by. Wait another 15 minutes, someone walks in, and keeps walking. Get bored OOCly (and maybe ICly), go to the Gaj and sit there quietly but at least with other people. Rinse, repeat.
Quote from: wizturbo on October 07, 2015, 01:01:36 PM
Quote from: Bast on October 07, 2015, 11:49:57 AM
I have no idea why anyone would ever use that as an excuse honestly.
Login, sit in Red's for 15 minutes, no one stops by. Wait another 15 minutes, someone walks in, and keeps walking. Get bored OOCly (and maybe ICly), go to the Gaj and sit there quietly but at least with other people. Rinse, repeat.
This has been my experience in Red's 9 times out of 10. So, yeah.
My PCs tend to prefer the Red's because I don't have to put up with 30 lines of look-spam every time a new character stumbles out of the Quit room.
Quote from: Bast on October 07, 2015, 11:49:57 AM
Its very easy to be an aide and meet all the people you need to know to do your job without ever setting foot in the Gaj.... I have no idea why anyone would ever use that as an excuse honestly.
I think this is an easy thing to say if you have a lot of play hours and people seek you out for things. But if you're playing an Aide and spend 2/3rds or more of your (often limited) time with your noble, it makes it challenging to meet people when the other third of your time is spent in an empty tavern. There's a certain expediency to going where the people are. And sometimes IG rules need to be flexible enough to allow the interaction that players need to be good at their job.
My PCs have drunk mainly in the Gaj or Tuluk. For me there is a wider variety of RP to be enjoyed in the Gaj than is possible in the Reds. Apart from brawling and witches etc, that's the place the most PCs start and begin to grow. If the nobles aren't slumming it in the Reds or doing business, what is there to enjoy in Reds apart from talking and sharing non sensitive gossip? I like the Atrium a lot. It does shut PCs away from the world, but the Gaj shuts PCs out from partaking at first hand what everyone else is having fun with.
This seems like a non-issue in every way imaginable.
Quote from: Desertman on October 07, 2015, 03:47:54 PM
This seems like a non-issue in every way imaginable.
Yep. Play where you want to, people. This is a game and it's for fun. If you're not having fun alone, I encourage you to seek people out, even if it makes little IC sense for you to go where you go. You can find excuses to go anywhere, really.
Walk into the Gaj with silks, get a comment about being too classy for the place, maybe you don't, maybe a bynner tries to punch you in the nose, maybe they don't.
We make exceptions for playability literally every time we log in. Be it the raw meat stacked in a chest in your apartment for 5 years that you STILL fucking eat, the torch you randomly light on the fly with no explanation to how, the not explaining how it's pitch-black outside but the inside of your tent is lit up and you ignore it.
I've had merchants who wouldn't step foot in the Gaj, they thought they were too classy for it. I also don't log into the game to roleplay with myself, so I'll guide my RP towards entertainment without breaking the world. I expect other players do much of the same.
Think I need to meet some new contacts.
em looks around the empty bar
Think not going to happen here... I hate the Gaj, but... maybe I'll stop by and see what happens.
I like the random poo-splash code from the Byn latrines being a possibility.
Players are the people playing in these places and RPing. I know I try on occasion to RP out the shitty conditions that is the Gaj at times when I animate, but really it's up to you all to keep up the consistency. I could see Nobles in Red's but I also see the problem where if a Noble is hanging out in there, no commoner will go in there... but then maybe you're Noble is thought of being unapproachable and no one wants to be around you. Commoner to others "Oh that noble had my finger cut off because I was picking my nose around him, you should avoid him!" Anti-Nosepicker Noble "*whines* Why does no one want to be around me?! *whines more*"
Just wanted to say I got a chuckle from Ath's post. Solid.
Saw a noble hanging out in the Gaj once. Really. The bartender looked at her funny, an elf tried to steal from her, the works.
She was probably consoling the person she was talking to or something but she really should have taken it outside.
Or not.
I don't see anything wrong at all with nobles going slumming if it is in their character to do so.
We have this image of the nobility in Zalanthas as being akin to The Queen of England.
You would never find her in a rundown pisshole. She's far too proper and elegant and "clean" to ever set foot in such a place.
I don't see anything wrong at all with having nobles who intentionally slum-it-up because that's what they enjoy or feel the need to do:
(https://lbarsanti.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/tyrion_lannister.png)
Quote from: The Silence of the Erdlus on October 08, 2015, 11:10:07 AM
Saw a noble hanging out in the Gaj once. Really. The bartender looked at her funny, an elf tried to steal from her, the works.
I could see Fale doing this because they want to "Slum" it as they have heard others doing before. And if I was playing that Fale and was stolen from, I'd reward that fucken elf. That elf has to have major balls, if that is so... then they should be rewarded. (Then they'd be rewarded again by getting to meet the Gaj in the Arena a few weeks or so later.)
To Desertman -- See, I can see this too... for some Nobles. I could never in the world see a Oash or Borsail noble, maybe not even a Tor noble, but a Fale or Rennik? Maybe... Fale I could see because fuck, it's FALE... for a reason. Rennik, eh... depends really. Borsail, never.... ever... not because how the commoners would see them, but how other nobles would see them. Social Status RP stuff... blah blah blah. Yeah, that.
Quote from: Desertman on October 08, 2015, 05:09:20 PM
I don't see anything wrong at all with nobles going slumming if it is in their character to do so.
We have this image of the nobility in Zalanthas as being akin to The Queen of England.
You would never find her in a rundown pisshole. She's far too proper and elegant and "clean" to ever set foot in such a place.
I don't see anything wrong at all with having nobles who intentionally slum-it-up because that's what they enjoy or feel the need to do:
(https://lbarsanti.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/tyrion_lannister.png)
Stylistically, you're correct. There are only about 300,000 people living in Allanak. This would be the size approximately of Toledo Ohio, if Toledo Ohio didn't have electricity, plumbing. etc and there was no metal and no one knew how to read. In essence, most people who play Allanaki nobles are probably playing characters who are too effete or too fastidious for how the characters would actually play out. Remember the Alaskan Politician Sara Palin? She actually hunted bears from helicopter while in office. Allanaki politicians are probably somewhat like her.
Pretty much all Allanaki would be pretty redneck by American standards, and the Nobles would be rednecks that know how to read.
It can get more complex than that, one might assume. For example, I tend to imagine House Kadius has a vested interest in keeping the Nobles preoccupied with high culture and material sophistication in order to further their profit margin. Moreover, I could easily see the military and the templarate encouraging the Nobles to get wound up in frou-frou stuff in order to distract them from meaningful participation in social change. I doubt that the elite of the criminal class have a strong interest in encouraging departure from the status quo.
Perhaps more importantly though, I'd imagine that the staff might have reason to encourage the people who are playing Nobles to be somewhat uptight. Back in the day, we used to have characters who got along with the gemmed, got along with ungemmed, got along with elves, dwarves and half-giants, were cool up in the 'Rinth, neutral in both Allanak and Tuluk....basically people played characters who were good at everything. The game was less fun back then. It's better when people have limitations, it encourages social interaction and dependency.
So let's say you wanted to play a Noble, and this Noble were more of a "Game of Thrones" type of Noble who didn't mind hopping onto horseback and leading the troops into battle, didn't mind having a couple of drinks with the lads? That's fine, but what then I'd wonder *are* your character's limitations. Interesting characters (like Batman and Iron Man) are defined as much by their strengths as by their limitations. To my point, if you were really interested in partying it up at the Gaj, you'd probably be better off playing an obsidian miner or a Bynner. It suits the atmosphere better.
Thank you for posting this. In essence I'd agree with you. I think you're right, but I think you're right with a couple of very important caveats.
To both replies above: I agree with both of you.
I remember Ceylara Borsail visiting the vicinity of the Gaj once, back when..
I think only a certain Fale has been seen actually in the Gaj as far as I recall for more than a passing moment.
The Gaj, when it is on point, is what I want my Arm experience to be. Violent, smelly, and covered in sores.
Sometimes it isn't appropriate for a character to hang out there. This is why I don't play nobility or fancy-ass characters.
Edit: Shit. Didnt see the timestamp. Accidental necro.
The Gaj cookroom echoes are weird. It is funny how that one guy keeps setting his hand on fire.
Quote from: Lizzie on October 06, 2015, 07:14:29 PM
Quote from: wizturbo on October 06, 2015, 12:19:40 PM
Wow. How dare Taijan make a joke on the GDB about such a serious issue that effects the lives of hundreds of players. How insensitive do you get?!
So to get back on topic, the Gaj's success is clearly a game balance issue. This is due to the potency of the drinks served there (not the container...how dare you...) relative to the potency per coin spent of the brews at Reds. Players want to maximize their alcohol skill with as little cost as possible and the Gaj obliges. Gith skull brew is OP in its potency. Nerf needed. Staff please consider this a top priority.
IC attempts were made to get the prices lowered and more of a selection but nothing came of it.
a clay bottle of "Red Sun"
That looks like more of a selection to me!
A crappy selection but hey, whatevs.
The problem with skull cups:
(http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/oglaf/images/0/0d/Skulls.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110815082844)
(http://xsimi.cz/wp-content/gallery/mix-28/Skulls_05-01-2012.jpg)
Fear not the blur!
(http://www.chinabuddhismencyclopedia.com/en/images/thumb/3/34/AAG34.jpg/250px-AAG34.jpg)