Armageddon MUD General Discussion Board

General => World Discussion => Topic started by: Case on May 14, 2013, 02:17:19 AM

Title: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Case on May 14, 2013, 02:17:19 AM
I posted how I felt sad about the sentiments in this thread: http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,45486.msg752207.html (http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,45486.msg752207.html). When I got home, I hoped on TS and ended up talking to Badskeelz about it and ranting a bit:

Quote from: Chatlog
"Case": it does annoy me though
"Case": typically, only men are suggesting it
"Case": really makes one feel good about being female
"Case": when the representation of your gender in a virtual world is a bargaining chip for interaction
"BadSkeelz": that only counts for female PCs. i can attest that looks mean balls-all on a male Pc
"Case": it's not that, that's not my issue
"Case": the newbie wants to play a cold and aloof PC
"Case": but people warn against this for lack of interaction
"Case": then somebody suggests you make sure it's a female PC then it's easy mode!
"Case": a bunch of male players agree
"BadSkeelz": that is the joke, ive heard.
"Case": normally I don't get caught up in feminist stuff like this
"Case": but it made me feel really shit
"Case": like both I am experiencing it easier for playing women
"Case": and that virtual representations of women are, even on Zalanthas, chattel
"Case": so it's a slight on both my RL sex and my IG sex
"Case": amazing
"BadSkeelz": :(
"Case": hopefully that makes sense to you
"Case": know what's not easy mode playing a female PC?
"BadSkeelz": it does. youre insulted and should be
"Case": playing a female PC that isn't what people expect female PCs exploit for this alleged easy mode

I apologise post hoc for my attitude towards others in the log. I have no grudge or problem with anybody who posted in that thread or especially Kismet who made the suggestion, I was annoyed by the holistic sense of it.

I know the topic's been brought up before across the internet and other games, playing female characters to get free stuff or an easier time of things. We're an RPI. We're all about the RP. Barring tribal biological realities and the Tuluki Templarate, gender and sex are not discriminated against on Zalanthas. Yet, we now have a thread from a newbie about starting off in Armageddon, in which RL roles or even just human sexual politics are exploited as a suggestion to facilitate a personality for the new player's character. That rubs me the wrong way, enough to make a thread about it anyway.

I'm not convinced playing female characters is always easier. Unfortunately, and apparently inescapably, you are treated differently female or male. It's not always positive for female characters though, arguably a negative for leadership PCs or out of the norm women. By out of the norm, I mean female PCs who do not conform to the stereotype that has this alleged easy mode. I have commented on the idea before that when discussing this kind of topic, it's always made as though females are the other, again, highlighted in the thread where the default is a male. It's not men playing hard mode, it's women getting it easy. Badskeelz used the word 'demeaning' to me, and I think he's right.

What do other people think? Am I just getting way bent out of shape over something innocuous or immutable? Are we really incapable as a player base of trying to excise this kind of culture?
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: James de Monet on May 14, 2013, 03:07:30 AM
I definitely don't think playing a female PC is "easy mode". In fact, I think playing a female char WELL is more "hard mode" than doing the same with a male.  Do people give you stuff and try to "protect" your char? Sometimes, yeah. But that just means you have to work all the harder if you want to reinforce IG norms. React to it like its weird or like they want something from you.

There's also the sexual dominance issue. IG, as IRL, males do 90% of the pursuing. Being the change you want to see as a female PC in that area would be a huge, probably unfun task, especially if you as a player are female, and have to overcome RL social training as well as try to "flirt like a guy" (ie share in sexual dominance) and yet somehow manage the (I imagine) overwhelming response that would elicit.

I guess I'm saying if you think playing a female PC is easy, you are likely doing it wrong. It's like playing a privileged role, to a degree. Is a lot of stuff (notice, assets, interaction) handed to you? Maybe. But now you're expected to go out there and make the gameworld more alive, enjoyable, and accurate to the docs with it.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: LauraMars on May 14, 2013, 03:17:13 AM
The suggestion in the other thread, while a joke, wasn't well thought out, if only because it isn't a great thing to say to an impressionable new player about our supposdly gender-bias free game - not to mention that it also had the effect of making a female player feel belittled. I respect your opinion on the matter, and can tell it really upset you. I wasn't thrilled with it either. I'm not sure you will be satisfied with the results of throwing this debate into the hate cycle, though.  I say this not to silence you or make you feel as though what you have to say isn't important, I just have my doubts that a full thread of gender debate in a mostly anonymous space will be that helpful for you. I've seen gender debate threads in Armageddon enough times to know that they usually end with a lock, after many nasty things have been said, despite the best intentions of the OP.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: hyzhenhok on May 14, 2013, 04:01:13 AM
The solution is to force gender bending. Require every player's new PC to be the opposite sex of the previous.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Kismetic on May 14, 2013, 04:17:56 AM
Oh, wow.  I only meant it was easy mode for getting interaction.  And it was a joke.  :o

Hey, ladies, no disrespect

 ???
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Case on May 14, 2013, 04:19:43 AM
Oh, wow.  I only meant it was easy mode for getting interaction.  And it was a joke.  :o

Hey, ladies, no disrespect

 ???
Not blaming you or hating on you Kismetic :D I said!
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Kismetic on May 14, 2013, 04:23:42 AM
(https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/1078664648/fry_bigger.jpg)
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Scarecrow on May 14, 2013, 05:27:09 AM
this topic will not be settled until IsFriday speaks his mind since he always plays as women
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Harmless on May 14, 2013, 05:39:22 AM
It isn't a very meaningful suggestion Case. When new I blew through PCs pretty fast. The new player just needs people to talk to them or around them. A lot of males feel ignored in this game if they aren't clearly badass.

I do my part when I can, finding salting noobs and interacting. Or offering to at least talk to them in the Gaj, though sometimes I end up beating their asses in a brawl as a means of interacting, but a lot of players don't. They'll usually have a choice of PCs to talk to, and will likely pick a PC who is nicely dressed or has a nice long desc (usually that is a female).

Male PCs sometimes get discriminated against for having pretty looks or effortful descriptions. Some GDBers here say otherwise, but I disagree. That's probably me being bicurious or overly sensitive, but I feel like a male PC who invests time in looks should be getting swept up and proper kanked by you brawny female PCs, but I have -never- seen that.

Guys. Be more bicurious. You play as a female, then at least talk to some hopelessly noobish guys, today. You can always FTB if things get steamy and protect your hetero honor.  ;)
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Inks on May 14, 2013, 05:54:48 AM
Dunno, the only female PCs that I see as chattel and weaker (albeit potentially fatally) are f mes and whores and such, but that is perfectly IC. That said, if there were more male f mes and whores I would totally treat them the same way. Itz in tha docs gais!
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Harmless on May 14, 2013, 05:56:02 AM
Dunno, the only female PCs that I see as chattel and weaker (albeit potentially fatally) are f mes and whores and such, but that is perfectly IC. That said, if there were more male f mes and whores I would totally treat them the same way. Itz in tha docs gais!

Yay!
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Erythil on May 14, 2013, 06:09:30 AM
People were afraid of my female PC and were much more willing to approach my male PC

I'm a horrible woman  :(
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Harmless on May 14, 2013, 06:24:15 AM
People were afraid of my female PC and were much more willing to approach my male PC

I'm a horrible woman  :(

Then you should have done the approaching as the female! Right?
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Inks on May 14, 2013, 06:33:37 AM
People were afraid of my female PC and were much more willing to approach my male PC

I'm a horrible woman  :(

Well stop playing gemmers then :P
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: musashi on May 14, 2013, 06:48:23 AM
I think, if you play a soft, curvy, flirtatious female PC who acts the maiden, there are more than enough males around who will eat that up. I think it can make game play easier in that regard, in terms of getting support, resolving conflict in your favor, etc.

But it would be incorrect I think, to assume all female characters, and female players are playing in that fashion. I see lots of female PC's who don't fit that mold, and don't profit from its built in support base.

And while I might make a snarky jab at the f-mes of the game on the boards from time to time, I don't actually bear that style of play any disapproval. I just joke about it like I joke about emo breeds, dorfs who can't spell, and worthless shitty elves.

Emotional manipulators exist. That aspect of the world needs representation just as much as the world needs stone hard badass sell swords to be manipulated.

It would be cool to see the reverse more often (flirty men manipulating butch women warriors or whatever) but there just doesn't seem to be a market for it among what people like to play so ... meh.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: lordcooper on May 14, 2013, 06:53:20 AM
I've always had an easier time obtaining both interaction and free shit while playing a female character in every online game in which I have done so, regardless of looks or personality.  Unfortunate, especially considering that I probably suck at RPing women.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Barzalene on May 14, 2013, 07:33:04 AM
Case. Case. You have to wind me up first thing in the am on the way to work?

I happen to agree with you.

I also find that my female pcs are often ignored unless I inititaite the rp. I wonder if I'm doing my female pcs wrong!

My male pcs (a grand total of two, well maybe there were more but I think they died or were stored with the car smell still on them) got hit on a great deal. One of them was sexually harrassed by his employer, taken home by a woman, and then picked up by a third in about 2 rl hours. I never had that happen with a female pc. Instead I get that horrible (and much ranted about experience) where my 6'7 200 pound voulge wielding pc sits at a bar and has seven people jumping down her throat that she's not immediately running out to be a whore. (Why no? There's nothing wrong with it you know. Haven't you read the docs? What if I give you 500 sid right now? What's the matter with you? Are you a newbie?) That didn't happen with any of my male pcs. They were immediately recruited by people who just took them seriously.

One of the facets of the idea of the fm pc as the only pc that makes me sad, is the idea that people, male and worse, female believe that they need to play women as sexual manipulators. I hate that cliche of the woman behind the power, whose strength is between her legs and whose intelligence is  sneaky and guileful.

The other part though, that I think is interesting is that women and men often, and surely not always, seem to function differently. Their brains are different. Their hormones are different. And it's possible that we, both men and women see women as more approachable. I wonder if female pcs are more often approached for help or comfort by other females than male. If in a group of people a female pc would turn first to another female pc for interaction. It's not something I've thought to make a point of observing.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: AreteX on May 14, 2013, 07:34:01 AM
I am not so sure the "free stuff cause you are a girl" mentality exists as much here as it does in other gaming worlds.  This is also being toned down over time as the culture of gaming changes.  In 2000 or so people really thought there were "no girl gamers".  The girl gamer was some unicorn that you could never find, but even that wasn't the truth and it isn't the truth now more than ever as gaming has transcended gender AND age at this point.

I have received quite a bit of free stuff in my time on Armageddon from other players.  This free stuff was not given to me because I was playing a female character, but because I had developed a relationship with the person giving me the free stuff.  This free stuff was earned through friendship and the trials of said friendship.  It was earned by manipulation or deceit.  It was earned by doing small things like making someone laugh, or convincing someone it was in their best interest to keep my character pleased.  I do not think it had anything to do with the sex of my characters at the time, and I believe both male and female characters can be successful in gathering attention and free stuff from other characters.

The real problem with all of this for me was the fact it was mentioned casually and jokingly in a new player thread and that is not the way to go about making a joke.  People have already reviewed Armageddon's boards as a festering dung-heap and construed Administrative staff's intentions or words to fit some horrible meaning and left that review on TMC or whatever other sites offer mud reviews.  At least in the new player forum we should respond seriously and not really joke around with inside jokes that people might not understand.  A lot of new players are going to read that thread and those forums.

Also, if every female is playing in EZMode then why isn't it actually HARDmode?  I mean the level of competition to get all of this free stuff rises with every new female character!  They stare at each other with looks of contempt and angst and then there is a pillow-fight and hair pulling!  ::)
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Harmless on May 14, 2013, 07:44:26 AM
Hoo boy....

In an attempt to make this thread lighthearted, I am quite certain I get roughly the same or maybe more free shit from female PCs when playing a male on average than vice versa. Attractive or not.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: DustMight on May 14, 2013, 07:48:50 AM
I alternate the genders of my characters.  I don't find one easier than another.  They all die in the end.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Patuk on May 14, 2013, 08:48:01 AM
Mm. If men and women are equal in Zalanthas, there is no 'wrong' way to play either sex.

That said, when my first and only female warrior in heavy armor and armed with swords got called a pretty little thing in all seriousness and was hit on to the point where I had to punch someone in the face.. I did facepalm. A little.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: greasygemo on May 14, 2013, 08:58:02 AM
Mm. If men and women are equal in Zalanthas, there is no 'wrong' way to play either sex.

That said, when my first and only female warrior in heavy armor and armed with swords got called a pretty little thing in all seriousness and was hit on to the point where I had to punch someone in the face.. I did facepalm. A little.

^ I've had this facepalm, or something exceptionally similar.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: hatchets on May 14, 2013, 08:59:43 AM
Sexism is real, get over it. While Zalanthas is not meant to be sexist, it still pretty much is. Why? Because we are human, and its the natural society that exists. We all want to pretend we are politically correct, and that we treat each other like equals, but we don't.

I am sexist, I only play straight males on Zalanthas, and while I try to advoid the sexism running into the game, it happens occaisionally. I am more likely to give free stuff to a female then a male. And all those other little sexist tidbits we aren't supposed to do. I agree, female is the an easier mode. And from my experience, watching others play, it holds true.

When you all see a man playing the slutty type, you think "hes just tryna get laid" when you see a woman playing the slutty type you think "What a whore".  But pretend how you want, I just thought I would atleast throw it out there, that the whole "its totally wrong of anyone to think or act that way" band wagon needed some derailing.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Barzalene on May 14, 2013, 09:12:59 AM
Sexism is real, get over it. While Zalanthas is not meant to be sexist, it still pretty much is. Why? Because we are human, and its the natural society that exists. We all want to pretend we are politically correct, and that we treat each other like equals, but we don't.

I am sexist, I only play straight males on Zalanthas, and while I try to advoid the sexism running into the game, it happens occaisionally. I am more likely to give free stuff to a female then a male. And all those other little sexist tidbits we aren't supposed to do. I agree, female is the an easier mode. And from my experience, watching others play, it holds true.

When you all see a man playing the slutty type, you think "hes just tryna get laid" when you see a woman playing the slutty type you think "What a whore".  But pretend how you want, I just thought I would atleast throw it out there, that the whole "its totally wrong of anyone to think or act that way" band wagon needed some derailing.

Um...
I understand what you're saying. I'll avoid the immediate emotional response and I stead simply ask why you won't at least give playing by the docs a shot. After all, the idea of rp is not to rp your real life, but rather an imagined one. Why would playing an egalitarian for a few hours be bad?
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: evil_erdlu on May 14, 2013, 09:15:54 AM
Heh.. I'm sexist IRL, too.. I, personally believe men are better than women. That's why I hold the door for the women or pull the chair for them to sit. I offer my place to women in public transportation. I open stuck jars for my wife.

But we try to get over it, don't we? And many other things. When I see a professional whore, I try my best to act like I'm speaking to just another artisan. When a templar is unfair, I don't think there's anything wrong. I see a pile of corpses drying under the sun and I do not hurl. A warrior female speaks to my merchant male and I do my best to show that my character is emasculated during the conversation.

So, yes. We may be sexist. But we'll try not to carry it over to the game.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: greasygemo on May 14, 2013, 09:24:55 AM
So, yes. We may be sexist. But we'll try not to carry it over to the game.

I'm not a racist IRL, but - I will use racial slurs against elves and breeds.
I'm starkly oppressive political states, but - I will kill anyone who speaks out against the highlord or even suggests he's wrong.
I would choke a bitch in RL who agreed with slavery, but - I would totally own slaves ICly if I could afford them.

It's the docs, man, the docs.. we must try to follow them, otherwise we might as well all just go play second life!
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: lordcooper on May 14, 2013, 09:28:25 AM
In a world where all genders are socially and physically equal, why would your character feel emasculated?
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Marauder Moe on May 14, 2013, 09:29:02 AM
I suppose I ought to clarify here.

Firstly, I do still believe it is easier, on average, to play a female in this game.

I'm not sure how that translates to a disparagement of women, as I meant it as a commentary about players' behavior towards female PCs, not that of women themselves.

I did not suggest that it's "easy mode" because F-me PCs can sleep their way to the top.  That trope is overblown on the GDB, and players (especially leaders who tend to be veterans) are good about not encouraging such behavior, at least not in a sexist way.

What it is is that female PCs seem to be more approachable and more sympathetic.  After all, IRL, it's usually the men that do the approaching, and it's the men who aren't supposed to be vulnerable/sympathetic.  This is absolutely an innapropriate cultural bleed-over into the game, but it's one that will not be easily shaken.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Inks on May 14, 2013, 09:30:37 AM
Heh.. I'm sexist IRL, too.. I, personally believe men are better than women.


"Better" Really? Kind of messed up mate. Of course we treat women differently in RL, we are two different genders and are overall stonger etc. But "Men are better" is  fucking ridiculous  to say.

In Zalanthas I will and do treat you all based on profession, station, personality, and mudsexing skillz. Whether male/female it makes no difference to me or my PCs.

What greasygemo said, also.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: evil_erdlu on May 14, 2013, 09:32:17 AM
Maybe.. ehrm.. you could read the remaining of my post, sirrah?
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Desertman on May 14, 2013, 09:48:15 AM
I think the difference is "what kind" of female you play.

For example:

If you play, "The buxom, sultry, beauty queen." Chances are much higher that people, especially male characters, are going to be much kinder to you and much nicer to you. The game will be easier for you based on that alone. Especially if you play into it and use it to your advantage.

Easy mode.

If you play, "The haggard zalanthan desert woman". Which in my opinion is more realistic, all things considered, you are much less likely to run into hordes of guys who give you everything you want instantly for free because they want access to your MUD-Love-Tunnel.

Less Easy Mode.



Granted, I have never played a female character. I have known several people that do, and they have all told me basically the same thing, that it is much easier to find positive interaction/friendships/beneficial relationships as a female character.


I don't see why this would confuse anyone. It is the same IRL. My grandfather used to say, "A woman is sitting on a million dollars if she just knows how to use it."

Men are always going to cater to females more readily than they will to other men due to the lure of potential sex. Even in this virtual world. This shouldn't surprise anyone.

Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Marauder Moe on May 14, 2013, 09:49:44 AM
Quote
I have commented on the idea before that when discussing this kind of topic, it's always made as though females are the other, again, highlighted in the thread where the default is a male. It's not men playing hard mode, it's women getting it easy. Badskeelz used the word 'demeaning' to me, and I think he's right.

What do other people think? Am I just getting way bent out of shape over something innocuous or immutable? Are we really incapable as a player base of trying to excise this kind of culture?
Ah, having read your post again, now I think I see what you're getting at, Case, and I see how it could be discouraging.  I write in the "male default" because I'm male and most of my PCs have been male.  It's the default perspective for me.  I should also note that the OP was (playing a) male as well.

Linguistically, though, I'm not sure what I can do about it.

Am I understanding things right or have I missed the mark again?


EDIT:
I have known several people that do, and they have all told me basically the same thing, that it is much easier to find positive interaction/friendships/beneficial relationships as a female character.
This, and only this, is what I meant.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: DustMight on May 14, 2013, 09:53:21 AM
Mm. If men and women are equal in Zalanthas, there is no 'wrong' way to play either sex.

That said, when my first and only female warrior in heavy armor and armed with swords got called a pretty little thing in all seriousness and was hit on to the point where I had to punch someone in the face.. I did facepalm. A little.

I want to give out kudos to the character who smacked my pretty little thing merchant in the head during an argument.  It was totally unexpected but so great.  Thank you! Nothing is as Armageddon as the taste of blood and sand in one's mouth.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: lordcooper on May 14, 2013, 09:59:52 AM
Men are always going to cater to females more readily than they will to other men due to the lure of potential sex. Even in this virtual world. This shouldn't surprise anyone.

Shouldn't that work both ways IG?  Also you are assuming a significant majority of Zalanthans are hetero.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Desertman on May 14, 2013, 10:07:45 AM
Men are always going to cater to females more readily than they will to other men due to the lure of potential sex. Even in this virtual world. This shouldn't surprise anyone.

Shouldn't that work both ways IG?  Also you are assuming a significant majority of Zalanthans are hetero.

1. It should work both ways in game. I never said it shouldn't. I agree with you. I simply stated that it doesn't currently.

2. Most PC's I have encountered in 15+ years of play have not been homosexual. Maybe I just haven't dug deeply into their sexual side to find their gayness.

Now "virtually" most people would probably be bisexual.

From a strictly PC standpoint, most people I encounter appear to be hetero.

Even then, the bisexual characters I have seen still tend to cater more towards beautiful women than gruff manly men. Even the bisexual females tend to cater more towards other beautiful women in my experience.

I have seen a HUGE number of lesbians. But, I always assume they are being played by straight men men who like to play women, behind the keyboard, so in my mind, they are "hetero" not exactly completely gay.

But the latter part there doesn't really count for this converastion as that is how I see it personally. IC'ly they are gay women, so, considering the number of hot lesbians I have seen I would probably say it is 50/50 gay to hetero now that I think about it.

But, it doesn't matter if it is straight men catering to your hot female pc, or lesbians catering to your hot female pc, playing a hot female PC still gets you catered to. Thus, the wide scale view that playing a hot female PC is easy mode gameplay.

(Edited to add some "strike-throughs" for accuracy.)
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Barzalene on May 14, 2013, 10:21:51 AM
My male pcs were not attracted to the pink lipped dainty girls. They liked their women tough and capable. My female pcs are more likely to befriend the women who look like they've shown up to be taken seriously than the ones who are examples of fragile beauty. Those pouty pink lipped lovelies with their pert noses and bosoms and batted lashes are too exhausting for me.

They're probably smart and wonderfully played three-dimensional people, but they look like boxes of sex and melodrama so, I steer clear.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: evil_erdlu on May 14, 2013, 10:25:16 AM
My male pcs were not attracted to the pink lipped dainty girls. They liked their women tough and capable. My female pcs are more likely to befriend the women who look like they've shown up to be taken seriously than the ones who are examples of fragile beauty. Those pouty pink lipped lovelies with their pert noses and bosoms and batted lashes are too exhausting for me.

They're probably smart and wonderfully played three-dimensional people, but they look like boxes of sex and melodrama so, I steer clear.

<3 you!
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: AreteX on May 14, 2013, 10:27:31 AM
In a world where all genders are socially and physically equal, why would your character feel emasculated?

Women and men are physically equal in potential, but that does not mean every man and woman are physically equal.

Emasculate can refer to a person or thing being made to feel weaker or less effective.  This works perfectly with a merchant who has never fought a day in his life comparing themselves to a warrior who could crush their skull.


I realize everyone is passionate about a subject like this because it brings real emotion to the table for some, but nobody has addressed the fact this type of suggestion was made to a NEW PLAYER.  On the NEW PLAYER forums.  We should not be giving our new players suggestions of, "play an f-me, it'll be ez-mode, lols."  Especially when the person already specified what type of character they wanted to play.  I can't believe the suggestion even came up.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: hyzhenhok on May 14, 2013, 10:30:37 AM
And about female PCs being taken seriously: make sure her physique at least somewhat aligns with her coded abilities, and if she's a grizzled veteran fighter have her accumulate scars and make sure she looks the part. Women are just as capable of being badass warriors as men in Zalanthas, but if you're skinny, delicate or petite, male or female, you have to expect people to roleplay accordingly.  

I had a long lived lady warrior who got plenty of respect, was never showered in gifts. I had a short lived lady ranger who people were always confused why she was dressed in armor and carried a spear and bow. In hindsight there's no surprise: the former was tall and sturdy-looking, while the latter was a petite, cute little thing. Anecdotal, small sample size, I know, but it's there.

The problem is we have to compromise between our RL mainstream sexual ideal for women if we want them to actually look the part, whereas for male PCs there is much less conflict there. But the lack of sexism in Zalanthas goes both ways: small, skinny or frail looking women aren't going to get a pass for begin small, skinny and frail just because they're female. No, you don't have to make your female warriors and rangers asexual freaks; just draw attention to certain traits and downplay others so we can suspend disbelief or fudge your character's apearance in our mind's eye.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Red Ranger on May 14, 2013, 10:32:48 AM
I think the difference is "what kind" of female you play.

For example:

If you play, "The buxom, sultry, beauty queen." Chances are much higher that people, especially male characters, are going to be much kinder to you and much nicer to you. The game will be easier for you based on that alone. Especially if you play into it and use it to your advantage.

Easy mode.

If you play, "The haggard zalanthan desert woman". Which in my opinion is more realistic, all things considered, you are much less likely to run into hordes of guys who give you everything you want instantly for free because they want access to your MUD-Love-Tunnel.

Less Easy Mode.

Granted, I have never played a female character. I have known several people that do, and they have all told me basically the same thing, that it is much easier to find positive interaction/friendships/beneficial relationships as a female character.

I don't see why this would confuse anyone. It is the same IRL. My grandfather used to say, "A woman is sitting on a million dollars if she just knows how to use it."

Men are always going to cater to females more readily than they will to other men due to the lure of potential sex. Even in this virtual world. This shouldn't surprise anyone.

It may not surprise anyone.  It doesn’t surprise me.  But no one should be satisfied with the current state of affairs, because it’s poor RP. It doesn’t satisfy me, because it’s poor RP.

The docs are explicit.

From the current introductory docs on the new website there’s this:

Quote from: http://www.armageddon.org/intro/chargen.php
Gender does not affect your character in any way except for which pronouns are used to refer to your character (he/she, etc.). Women and men are equal on Zalanthas.

The old website was more explicit.  From the Quickstart docs:

Quote from: http://old.armageddon.org/intro/quickstart.html
Avoid imposing your own interpretations and norms on the game world. For example, there is no sexism on Zalanthas; women and men are treated equally. This means that the following would not happen in Armageddon: a man expressing shame at being beaten sparring by a woman; someone referring to women as needing protection or coddling; a woman being shamed for sexual promiscuity while a man is praised for it.

So a male coddling “the buxom, sultry, beauty queen" because she’s female and playing into the RL trope that women are weaker and need protection is poor RP.

Similarly, treating “the haggard zalanthan desert woman” like a pretty little thing and expecting her to fill the RL gender role of being weak and needing protection is poor RP.

For example:

Mm. If men and women are equal in Zalanthas, there is no 'wrong' way to play either sex.

That said, when my first and only female warrior in heavy armor and armed with swords got called a pretty little thing in all seriousness and was hit on to the point where I had to punch someone in the face.. I did facepalm. A little.

Similarly, male PCs constantly propositioning and pressuring female PCs for sex to the exclusion of other PC-to-PC interactions or even to the exclusion of other PC-to-PC romantic interactions is poor RP.  There was a lengthy and informative thread about that precise phenomenon not too long ago (http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,43552.0.html).  I shared my thoughts as part of that thread (http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,43552.msg685463.html#msg685463).

I personally don’t think it’s too much to expect that people make an effort to play within the documentation for the gameworld.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Desertman on May 14, 2013, 10:36:13 AM
Stuff...

You do realize I already agree with you 100% right?

I was stating how it is, not how I think it should be.

I also try to play the change I want to see. When the majority of my PC's see, "The dainty little f'me", they don't think, "Oh, a little woman that needs my big manly protection. I shall cater to her every need and maybe I can stick my meat in her." My pc's usually think, "That one is small, weak, pathetic, she wouldn't be a good potential mate. She would probably die on me in a month. I don't know how she has lived this long."

^----If I am playing a good/neutral character.

If I am playing an evil character, I see them as prime victims for me to assault asap.

 
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Morgenes on May 14, 2013, 10:36:38 AM
Updated chargen doc to include old information as well.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Fujikoma on May 14, 2013, 10:44:10 AM
What it is is that female PCs seem to be more approachable and more sympathetic.  After all, IRL, it's usually the men that do the approaching, and it's the men who aren't supposed to be vulnerable/sympathetic.  This is absolutely an innapropriate cultural bleed-over into the game, but it's one that will not be easily shaken.

Playing a vulnerable and sympathetic male seems to result in many unpleasant social consequences, or maybe I'm just doing it wrong.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Potaje on May 14, 2013, 10:45:14 AM
Not that I take the stand for or against, but when I read the post in question, I took it in a very none demeaning manner.

I believe in the contexts of -Rp- and getting -RP- from others that they were saying that players seem to gravitate to and seek out interaction with female pcs.

I do not believe that to be false, but I have no real statistics to base what is merely an observation on my part, or perhaps the part of those saying its -easy mode-.

Again -easy mode- may be the completely wrong term to us in this case on their behalf.

But no were in the thought that females are pursued more heavily than male pcs, in a social context, do I find it insulting and I have a hard time seeing how even in a world like Zalanthas that females might not have the social higher ground, in being desired.

It does not limit them in rank, or prestige, it does not limit their betrayal (perhaps even gives them an edge). They die just as often and as hard or easily as the male pcs.


 
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Red Ranger on May 14, 2013, 10:52:54 AM
Updated chargen doc to include old information as well.

Hey thanks, Morgenes!

You do realize I already agree with you 100% right?

Good to see that explicitly stated!
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Harmless on May 14, 2013, 10:55:18 AM
Whoo! Morning shitstorm! Look at all the posts.

Memorable moments with female PCs in my recent past:

1.) Being threatened by one that she could destroy my male PC's braincase in a second, lovingly
2.) Watching a female PC handle gith far better than my at-the-time weak male PC, and neither party making a big deal out of it
3.) Lirathean Templars (nuff said)

So there are great examples of egalitarian RP aplenty in game and I keep seeing more, especially nowadays.

As for the -point- of the new player's advice... yeah, advising to be an f-me is fucked up. The key though, is approachability. He wanted cold and aloof but interaction, and there were lots of other good suggestions in his thread to get him there without playing an f-me. The f-me was a later suggestion, it wasn't a serious one (as Kismet said), and he wasn't the only one thinking it from the get-go (as I said).

I am going to go amend that new player's thread now with my suggestions for approachability.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: ShaLeah on May 14, 2013, 11:26:44 AM
I've played one male. I started him in a place that had no pcs so I sucked big time. I -will- be playing another male.

Of all my female characters, most are good looking, some are MAJOR f'mes looks wise, some have been pretty friggin' hideous. My ugliest most scarred female PC got more ass than a toilet seat. Here's my take on easy mode according to gender.

Playing a male character, especially undesirable or hideous, makes you instantly rejected, until you become a bad ass code or political wise. Then you become feared like a mufuckah. You gotta work in the beginning to charm them hard.

Playing a gorgeous, clean, mac-daddy male character makes you instantly coveted by the richer folk (and everyone else) and hated/envied by all those toothless, scrawny types.... until you become a bad ass at the code or politically, then you become like Bon Jovi. People want you to be their baby-daddy, throwing panties on the stage type of rock star. You gotta work a bit harder in the beginning to be looked at past the f'me pink lips.

Playing a female character makes you instantly more social, more coveted, good looking or not, gemmed or not, undesirable or not.  It looks to be easier to start but the truth of the matter is that you end up having to work at it harder. The more power you get politically the harder it gets, the more suspicious people get, the harder it is to get minions, people are onto you. The more bad ass, the better looking, the more sexual, the harder you have to work too.

I think there needs to be a distinction between creating and starting a female character specifically for the ease of social roleplay and oocly, consciously not taking advantage of every benefit your female character will be offered.

Maybe gender bending needs to be way to achieve karma. I know I wouldn't get that one. I know when a male is behind -a lot- of female characters. Even IsFriday.




Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: flurry on May 14, 2013, 11:58:22 AM
Whether serious of half-serious or not serious, the suggestion that playing a female character is easy mode gets brought up from time to time.

One of the problems I have with the statement is that (intentionally or not) it seems to devalue the achievements of female characters in game. After all, those were only "easy mode" achievements.

While we're swapping anecdotal evidence around, I'd just say I don't see much of the "free stuff" phenomenon directed at my female characters, but that could be because I frequently play tomboyish ones. When I have, I often see it as much of a nuisance as anything else.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Quell on May 14, 2013, 12:06:18 PM

While we're swapping anecdotal evidence around, I'd just say I don't see much of the "free stuff" phenomenon directed at my female characters, but that could be because I frequently play tomboyish ones. When I have, I often see it as much of a nuisance as anything else.

I play a good split of both male and female characters, and I tend to lean towards more attractive ones of either gender. In my experience the females do achieve a greater net attention, but it's pretty erratic and I'll go long stretches without noticing any dichotomy in how people interact with them.

For whatever reason the tendency for females to get more attention does seem to be present, but not everpresent in my experience.

Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Fujikoma on May 14, 2013, 12:07:38 PM
I've seen free stuff given to females... That being said, as to whether the free stuff received required a significant investment of time spent with the person, which would, in my opinion, make it, in all actuality, not free stuff, could have easily happened while I was not around to witness it.

My male characters don't really receive free stuff, maybe every now and then someone tosses something their way, but usually that requires a very significant investment of time and favors, thus not really being free.

All that being said, a sentiment I've heard a couple times before IG is, male or female, "The pretty ones almost always die first.".
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: lordcooper on May 14, 2013, 12:09:22 PM
One of the problems I have with the statement is that (intentionally or not) it seems to devalue the achievements of female characters in game.

Humans are easy mode compared to many other races.  Does saying that devalue the achievements of human characters in game?

Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Red Ranger on May 14, 2013, 12:20:47 PM
One of the problems I have with the statement is that (intentionally or not) it seems to devalue the achievements of female characters in game.

Humans are easy mode compared to many other races.  Does saying that devalue the achievements of human characters in game?

Well, when the contributions of elven, dwarven, mul, or half-giant PCs are devalued, there aren't any elven, dwarven, mul, or half-giant players that feel devalued and under attack.

Edit: Also, when human PC achievements are devalued, it doesn't make the human players feel lesser than the elven, dwarven, mul, or half-giant players.  Because, you know, all the players are human.  But not all the players are male.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Fujikoma on May 14, 2013, 12:21:41 PM

Humans are easy mode compared to many other races.  Does saying that devalue the achievements of human characters in game?


Personally, I think the behavior of a fair number of the lower ranks among them does the devaluing job fairly well.  :D
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Quell on May 14, 2013, 12:23:15 PM
One of the problems I have with the statement is that (intentionally or not) it seems to devalue the achievements of female characters in game.
Humans are easy mode compared to many other races.  Does saying that devalue the achievements of human characters in game?

Yes, actually it probably would. People would not take offense though because IRL we're all humans, so no one's going to complain. To be a bit farsical: If there were elves in the real world saying this, you could probably imagine a fair number of humans getting irked.

I'd like to point out though that even if something makes one feel bad, sometimes it needs to be said anyways if its ever going to be addressed. I like this thread. I think it'll generate some good ideas about how to address the problems the original poster faces, and it would never have gotten started without the understandably irksome comment that generated it.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: lordcooper on May 14, 2013, 12:32:16 PM
One of the problems I have with the statement is that (intentionally or not) it seems to devalue the achievements of female characters in game.

Humans are easy mode compared to many other races.  Does saying that devalue the achievements of human characters in game?

Well, when the contributions of elven, dwarven, mul, or half-giant PCs are devalued, there aren't any elven, dwarven, mul, or half-giant players that feel devalued and under attack.

Technically those races represent the men in that comparison.

I kinda see what you're trying to get at though.  The solution to whichever problem actually exists (female characters being easy mode or being falsely thought of as easy mode) is exactly the same: the playerbase achieving a greater degree of IC/OOC separation.

@Quell:  Nobody seems to be saying the game is any easier for female players, just female characters which are played by men too.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: flurry on May 14, 2013, 12:43:30 PM
One of the problems I have with the statement is that (intentionally or not) it seems to devalue the achievements of female characters in game.

Humans are easy mode compared to many other races.  Does saying that devalue the achievements of human characters in game?

The racial differences are by design, and coded that way. The playing field is not meant to be level, racially. So, yes, the same goal may be less impressive if achieved by a human than if achieved by, say, a half-giant.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Quell on May 14, 2013, 12:43:58 PM
@Quell:  Nobody seems to be saying the game is any easier for female players, just female characters which are played by men too.

This might be getting overly complex, but I was trying to make my metaphor as apt as possible.

Original statement: People in the real world saying playing a female character is playing on easy mode devalues the accomplishments of the player (of either gender).

Your question: Does saying playing humans is playing on easymode devalue a player of a human's accomplishment?

My response: Yes it does, but it's not as likely to press buttons because we only have humans in the real world.

My farsical metaphorical example: Imagine what it would feel like if real life elves were saying that playing your human character was playing on easy mode.

The point I was trying to make was that there's a greater emotional response if you make a comment on a subset in the game that has a real life counterpart.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: AreteX on May 14, 2013, 12:48:10 PM
I wonder how many times someone knows a male is playing a female character are actually correct in their assumption?

I think this thread pretty much points out that there might be bias, but everyone should not be biased as per the docs.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Suhuy on May 14, 2013, 12:50:21 PM
Contrary to where this discussion seems to be going, I think things have changed immensely since the earlier days of Arm. And for the better. In those days it was not uncommon for some exotic, buxom and pristine female PC to arrive upon the scene and receive instant coddling from her seniors, the sort which immediately suggests that real world concepts of "femininity" were apparently applauded and even helped to elevate one's social status in the game world. I can think of several such examples and I'm quite confident that that trick would not work in the present version of Arm, not by a long shot. That isn't to suggest that roles such as concubines and courtesans don't have their place in the game, but the idea that females are "easy mode" is a lot less true now than it was then.

Plus I think there's an overreaction to the idea of sexism going on here. The characters you encounter in game are played by real people with real world social mores. It's understandable if some of this seeps into the game from time to time. In fact it's a pretty big expectation to think that this won't happen. Of course instead of saying things like "You fight like a girl" it would be more appropriate to the game world if we said things like "You fight like a wimp", but sometimes I think people simply inadvertently blurt out the RL expression by force of habit more than anything else. Now, you can get angry OOCly or even try to RP that their character is weird and out of place, or you can roll with the punches and play as though what they really said was "fight like a wimp" (since that is the IC interpretation of what they're trying to say anyway). The next time someone says "You fight like a girl" why not respond by saying: "What do you mean I fight like a wimp? How dare you say that? I will show you how wrong you are!" That way you've OOCly demonstrated the error of their ways with an IC remark while not threatening the stability of the scene either. Just a thought!

Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: LauraMars on May 14, 2013, 12:58:16 PM
In my opinion, it's completely ok to call someone out for saying something like "You fight like a girl."  It's a violation of the documentation, not appropriate to the game world, and the player who said it should be made aware of this so they don't make that mistake again.  The expectation should not be "it's going to happen anyway, so why bother correcting it?" or a "pretend this didn't happen so nobody gets uncomfortable."   If someone said that to a character of mine, I'd absolutely roleplay it as happening, and my character would react with extreme confusion.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Quell on May 14, 2013, 12:59:49 PM
Contrary to where this discussion seems to be going, I think things have changed immensely since the earlier days of Arm. And for the better. In those days it was not uncommon for some exotic, buxom and pristine female PC to arrive upon the scene and receive instant coddling from her seniors, the sort which immediately suggests that real world concepts of "femininity" were apparently applauded and even helped to elevate one's social status in the game world. I can think of several such examples and I'm quite confident that that trick would not work in the present version of Arm, not by a long shot. That isn't to suggest that roles such as concubines and courtesans don't have their place in the game, but the idea that females are "easy mode" is a lot less true now than it was then.

Plus I think there's an overreaction to the idea of sexism going on here. The characters you encounter in game are played by real people with real world social mores. It's understandable if some of this seeps into the game from time to time. In fact it's a pretty big expectation to think that this won't happen. Of course instead of saying things like "You fight like a girl" it would be more appropriate to the game world if we said things like "You fight like a wimp", but sometimes I think people simply inadvertently blurt out the RL expression by force of habit more than anything else. Now, you can get angry OOCly or even try to RP that their character is weird and out of place, or you can roll with the punches and play as though what they really said was "fight like a wimp" (since that is the IC interpretation of what they're trying to say anyway). The next time someone says "You fight like a girl" why not respond by saying: "What do you mean I fight like a wimp? How dare you say that? I will show you how wrong you are!" That way you've OOCly demonstrated the error of their ways with an IC remark while not threatening the stability of the scene either. Just a thought!

I'd tend to agree with this statement, but with the caveat that just because there is less of something doesn't mean it's fixed. There's been more than a few examples posted here about people encountering this sort of behavior. I know I tend to encounter it in spurts that over the long run might not be that egregious, but when you're going through one it can be jarring.

I also think that with the new influx of players, we're going to see a temporary increases in the propensity to bring in real world norms in unacceptable ways (and not just with regards to gender), so discussing what to do about it is more necessary now than maybe it has been in the past... Which you did, so bravo!
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Morrolan on May 14, 2013, 01:03:34 PM
Remember that there is the option of logging a player complaint. If you're worried about being mean, then just couch the message to staff as "please monitor this, I didn't want to ruin an otherwise awesome scene by suddenly OOCing."

Staff doesn't issue tickets, they address concerns, issues, and problems for the good of the game. Whatever the patter on the GDB, they're not the boogeymen that many GDB discussions make them out to be. They are as capable of gentle correction as they are the proverbial smackdown.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: lordcooper on May 14, 2013, 01:05:17 PM
@Quell:  Nobody seems to be saying the game is any easier for female players, just female characters which are played by men too.

This might be getting overly complex, but I was trying to make my metaphor as apt as possible.

Original statement: People in the real world saying playing a female character is playing on easy mode devalues the accomplishments of the player (of either gender).

Your question: Does saying playing humans is playing on easymode devalue a player of a human's accomplishment?

My response: Yes it does, but it's not as likely to press buttons because we only have humans in the real world.

My farsical metaphorical example: Imagine what it would feel like if real life elves were saying that playing your human character was playing on easy mode.

The point I was trying to make was that there's a greater emotional response if you make a comment on a subset in the game that has a real life counterpart.

It seems we view roleplay very differently.  My characters accomplish stuff, not me.  I also wouldn't care about those elven players (or, more relevantly, players who primarily play elves) pointing out the truth.  My ego isn't wrapped up in how other people view the accomplishments of figments of my imagination.  I'd suggest that'd be a bit unhealthy.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: LauraMars on May 14, 2013, 01:08:36 PM
Now, you can get angry OOCly or even try to RP that their character is weird and out of place, or you can roll with the punches and play as though what they really said was "fight like a wimp" (since that is the IC interpretation of what they're trying to say anyway). The next time someone says "You fight like a girl" why not respond by saying: "What do you mean I fight like a wimp? How dare you say that? I will show you how wrong you are!" That way you've OOCly demonstrated the error of their ways with an IC remark while not threatening the stability of the scene either. Just a thought!

Just want to again express that this isn't really going to show anyone the error of their ways - all it will do is make the offending player think that their RP partner also believes that girl = wimp.

File a player complaint if this happens, seriously.  And address what just happened in game.  Nobody should feel obligated to coddle or gloss over this kind of behavior - this is fucking Zalanthas.  KILL THEM FOR BEING CRAZY AND FOR THEIR BOOTS.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Refugee on May 14, 2013, 02:00:43 PM
There are, and have been, so many awesome female combatant PCs that I can usually laugh at someone who says something like "Fights like a girl" and point them at some girl who can kick their ass.

In this game, more than any other MUD I've played, I've seen more women played as serious, hard-working, hard-fighting PCs, who don't flirt their way to getting away with things that their male counterparts can't get away with.  That choice of play, "I'm a woman and so I can mouth off to my sergeant, skip my chores, and otherwise not do things the guys have to do" has always annoyed me immensely, and I don't see so much of it here.  I'm glad of that.  It's demeaning to women to play them that way. 

Most women I know in RL are smart, hard-working people juggling impossible loads and doing it well.  Most women I see in MUDs are caricatures out of Hollywood, or maybe high school society.  I really appreciate players who create real, believable women.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Barzalene on May 14, 2013, 02:07:40 PM
And there are also plenty of badass non-combat female pcs, getting ahead on merit, not sex-appeal
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Kaineus on May 14, 2013, 02:08:52 PM
I totally agree with the post above, and a lot of the other posts. Here's my rant, if anyone cares.

I've found this game to be extremely egalitarian, but what always messes up the equation is the human desire for sex, just like in real life.

In game, I've found that the dudes who have given my characters free shit have eventually wanted to mud hump. Only once have I encountered a male character said overtly sexist things like "The only thing women really want to do is to have babies," and "No matter how hard you try, you won't be as strong or smart as a man is," and I reported his ass for it.

In real life, I've found I've never been told "LOL you're weak or stupid because you're biologically female." That being said, I've been propositioned and sexually harassed a number of times by coworkers, managers, roomates--people I didn't want to be hit on by. The solution was simple--refuse their gifts and propositions. (Recently in my job I've noticed a bunch of dudes who used to hit on me from this one department have all decided to collectively hate on me--calling me a dyke, saying I'm too hairy, shit like that. But do I give a fuck? No. Males who retaliate against females who refuse their advances just look like even bigger assholes in the long run. Moreover, the law is on my side--I've been logging the shit they've been saying to me. I could sue if I wanted. Armageddon has a similar option for excessive sexism--file a complaint.)

If you don't like that playing a female is EZ mode, don't let it become easy mode--don't use sexism to your advantage. Have self respect, don't depend on skeezy guys who are being generous because you know they want to hump you.

The majority of human being, mammals, and vertebrates want to have sex. A good way to get sex is to treat the people you want to have sex with in a preferential manner. If sex is one of your primary ways of getting what you need to survive, why, that's called being a whore.

Not all women are whores. Some women like to prove themselves. Some women get insulted by chauvinist behavior and refuse to benefit from it. If you're a woman who doesn't like the idea that playing a female is EZ mode, be the change you want to see--don't let it be EZ mode. Conversely, don't assume all female players and female characters are benefiting from sexism. My current character owns only two pieces of gear that were gifts, one from a male PC and one from a female PC, each gift worth only about 30 coins. She's a grown ass woman who gets what she needs on her own.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Iiyola on May 14, 2013, 02:15:21 PM
Played both sexes. And I don't think it's the ldesc which is attracting the player. It's the roleplay. Good roleplay attracts people, be it to cause some shit, to be a catalyst, to spread rumors, to mudsex, etc. My experience is that sex of your char doesn't matter. It CAN be a tool, yes, but that completely depends on the situation and your roleplay partner.

Just make your roleplay fun. When people notice your char isn't a dull person, who has true emotions, who hemotes, who is basically 3D, who does the (un)expected (yes, the expected can sometimes be just as refreshing), you will find there is no difference.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Morrolan on May 14, 2013, 02:27:42 PM
Also remember, considering that PCs live an average of 2-3 weeks RL, your problem-children will solve themselves quickly. Unlike RL, ignoring minor problems actually works.

"Huh huh I'm a grebber and yer hot."

think (superior) A crazy person. I'll laugh when he crosses the wrong person. Until then, I'll just keep an eye on my own goals.

Major problems, of course, need to be elevated to staff attention.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Dalmeth on May 14, 2013, 02:45:41 PM
The problem with a cold and aloof character is that nine times out of ten, you're trying to be cold and aloof in a social situation.  Like sitting at a bar.  Which negates being cold and aloof.  People who are genuinely cold and aloof don't sit in bars because they aren't comfortable with idleness.

It just so happens that some people like to stand out from the crowd (of a bar) by being cold and aloof.  In a highly active social scene, it's a great way to get people to talk to you without anything to say yourself.  People focus on the odd one out. 

However, this has become a behavior associated women.  That is all.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Fujikoma on May 14, 2013, 03:04:19 PM
I have seen many badass female characters since I started playing. My characters usually respect them the same as male characters, but since my characters are mostly hetero and things are as harsh as they are they do tend to find accomplishment and power attractive in a woman... I don't think it out of line for them to mention this to the other character at some point, but without any kind of favorable response they usually drop it.

They may not like some of them, male or female, but they do have a grudging sort of respect even for the ones they dislike, even if they sit long hours contemplating their untimely demise.

As a player, it is possible to like characters my character is not so fond of, and by extension, the player on the other end, whether male playing female, female playing male, male playing male, or female playing female.

I have seen other characters that I, as a player, am not so fond of... And I'm not sure what I think about that.  :-X
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Kismetic on May 14, 2013, 03:04:56 PM
I'm so proud to see this group not arguing in the newbie thread.  I have no actual comments on sexism (not with a 10 cord pole, newp).
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Fredd on May 14, 2013, 04:33:24 PM
What it is is that female PCs seem to be more approachable and more sympathetic.  After all, IRL, it's usually the men that do the approaching, and it's the men who aren't supposed to be vulnerable/sympathetic.  This is absolutely an innapropriate cultural bleed-over into the game, but it's one that will not be easily shaken.

Playing a vulnerable and sympathetic male seems to result in many unpleasant social consequences, or maybe I'm just doing it wrong.

Don't do it as a breed. Do it as a rich guy. You get a 100% different reaction.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Korgoth on May 14, 2013, 04:39:13 PM
I see no problem with giving other players gifts if you want their attention or whatever it may be.  Seems like the act of giving a gift should be a normal thing if someone catches your eye.  There are always two sides to every perceived situation and two ways to tip the scales back into balance. If it's an equal world and all, maybe all you female characters need to step up and start showering males with gifts when you want their attention. To be honest, I'm pretty sure I've gotten more gifts as a male character from other males than from females. Though those characters didn't really try to hook up with women and were more like tools to be fed and kept happy. So maybe that's why.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Morrolan on May 14, 2013, 04:54:21 PM
[removed by author]

Except I have to keep this:

Korgoth the Barbarian

(http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/korgoth2.jpg)
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Case on May 14, 2013, 05:04:53 PM
Posting on behalf of another, who wishes to remain anonymous:

Quote from: Anon
I am a man currently playing my first female character on Arm. I was inspired to do so by one of [Case's] characters, actually. In the past, I have played female characters in other games, both tabletop and other muds back when I played other muds.

I have not found playing a female to be "easy mode" in Arm. Quite the opposite, I have found it hard to play in character when other characters act in ways that are inappropriate for the world. I just have to keep reminding myself to stay IC and remember that there is no "win" in Arm.

Yeah, the easy-mode comment is demeaning. It's crap, too. The reasons for that are subtle, maybe. But it's still there.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Kismetic on May 14, 2013, 05:12:20 PM
If what you say were true, then why is there an OOC perception of "female = easy mode"?

You know, having read this entire waste of time thread (hey, I've got three months off work, what is a body to do?), I'm not seeing a single bit of anecdotal evidence that females have it easier for anything, except interaction, which prevails as true, yes -- the larger majority of players are male, and that's just human nature.  I'm not seeing any posts where men have declared otherwise.  Really, when even Desertman (sorry, man, but you have classic southern values) says some reasonable things in a thread about sexism, the resulting theme of the day would seem to be self-satisfying noise (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gSQg1i_q2g).

My initial post would've been best corrected as "an attractive character" instead of "an attractive female character" but my edgy humor lands hard in a forum that is so secular and proper that it fails to touch reality.

If you see people doing something overtly sexist, report it, via the request tools.  Otherwise, if this argument is so tired, why do you keep perpetuating it?
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Korgoth on May 14, 2013, 05:15:01 PM
Wasn't saying anything like that. Some of my characters have been very afraid of strong women characters just as much as strong males. I don't treat women in any different way really. Just was saying there are two ways to balance the scale. One is to add more weight to one side, or remove weight from another.  I've not really read anything about gift giving in docs so maybe that's my fault. I just see plenty of people doing it. People keep saying it's one way, male to female. Why shouldn't it be balanced and go both ways was all I was suggesting.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Marauder Moe on May 14, 2013, 05:25:06 PM
You know, having read this entire waste of time thread (hey, I've got three months off work, what is a body to do?), I'm not seeing a single bit of anecdotal evidence that females have it easier for anything, except interaction, which prevails as true, yes -- the larger majority of players are male, and that's just human nature.

Interaction is all I really ever meant, anyway.  Interaction was the context of the original post that spawned this topic.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Fredd on May 14, 2013, 05:28:08 PM
Wasn't saying anything like that. Some of my characters have been very afraid of strong women characters just as much as strong males. I don't treat women in any different way really. Just was saying there are two ways to balance the scale. One is to add more weight to one side, or remove weight from another.  I've not really read anything about gift giving in docs so maybe that's my fault. I just see plenty of people doing it. People keep saying it's one way, male to female. Why shouldn't it be balanced and go both ways was all I was suggesting.


Women do give gifts all the time. I think that when a man gives a woman a gift, or tries to smooze up to them people are like "Oh, that's him being a man, I should play something with tits, that's so common." But when a woman does it people are like "Oh! That's so nice and unexpected." And that my friends, is just OOC bleeding into IC.

I run the gamut of Male pc's. pretty ones, ugly ones, rich ones, poor ones. And if I play a desirable male pc, I get gifts all the time from women. be they in the form of favors, or materials.
"But Fredd, that man shouldn't call my buff female warrior pc sexy, or beautiful" Yeah? And I shouldn't have called the ugly chick beautiful at the end of the night in the club either, but I did because I wanted to get my dick wet. That's perfectly in the doc's, actually. Life is short, have fun while you can, fuck what you want is pretty much in the docs, in more PC wording. Want to know what to do? Beat the fuck out of the guy for calling you pretty. It's happened to some of my pc's in the past, and it was a lot of fun.

That being said. Going 'white knight' for a woman is against the docs, and I do see if far far to commonly. If you want to play a white knight type pc. Don't do it just for women, in general. Narrow your focus, and make it more like the docs, and be all white knight for your close friends, male or female.


edited: To remove some of my common dyslexic typos.
 
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Kismetic on May 14, 2013, 05:32:46 PM
Fredd ...  *sigh*

craft gdb common.sense into a reasonable conclusion
No recipes matched 'a reasonable conclusion'.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Fredd on May 14, 2013, 05:34:21 PM
Fredd ...  *sigh*

craft gdb common.sense into a reasonable conclusion
No recipes matched 'a reasonable conclusion'.

What did I do now? LOL.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: James de Monet on May 14, 2013, 05:40:15 PM
Just to clarify, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with PCs giving each other gifts. Especially in established channels such as friend to friend, employer to employee, supplicant to authority, etc. Even from suitor to object of desire is fine. I just feel like I see it more from male to female (especially in situations where the male is unlikely to benefit from it) which makes the balance seem less doc-like.

Again though, it could just be that my perception is skewed, or that I'm looking for what's wrong rather than what's right.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Flincher on May 14, 2013, 05:50:18 PM
Someone mentioned that there is far more lesbianism than male homosexuality..I'd argue that in RL, society is far more accepting of lesbian sex than they are of gay men and that carries into Armageddon. I know one female player in Armageddon that does sometimes engage in lesbian mudsex but I don't believe they are actually lesbians or bisexual in real life (no clue actually). So its not simply the case of men playing female pc's who get off on lesbian scenes its just an interesting trait of today's society.

Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Morrolan on May 14, 2013, 05:52:18 PM
I'm not convinced playing female characters is always easier. Unfortunately, and apparently inescapably, you are treated differently female or male. It's not always positive for female characters though, arguably a negative for leadership PCs or out of the norm women. By out of the norm, I mean female PCs who do not conform to the stereotype that has this alleged easy mode.

I want to return to this idea here.

I agree with Case, but I'll put it more forcefully:

There is an IG (but OOC-driven) social expectation that female characters conform to Western cultural stereotypes. Often, their leadership seems to be less appreciated. More commonly than male characters, they are rewarded for being sexual objects--paid with increased interaction and sometimes outright gifts.

Admittedly, this is still less common here than in other neighborhoods of the Internet.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: PriestlySiren on May 14, 2013, 05:57:08 PM
What it is is that female PCs seem to be more approachable and more sympathetic.  After all, IRL, it's usually the men that do the approaching, and it's the men who aren't supposed to be vulnerable/sympathetic.  This is absolutely an innapropriate cultural bleed-over into the game, but it's one that will not be easily shaken.

Playing a vulnerable and sympathetic male seems to result in many unpleasant social consequences, or maybe I'm just doing it wrong.

You said yourself, you mostly play breeds.  ::)
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Iiyola on May 14, 2013, 05:57:32 PM
There is an IG (but OOC-driven) social expectation that female characters conform to Western cultural stereotypes. Often, their leadership seems to be less appreciated. More commonly than male characters, they are rewarded for being sexual objects--paid with increased interaction and sometimes outright gifts.

I've seen many more PC female whores than male whores IC. Just saying.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Morrolan on May 14, 2013, 05:59:28 PM
There is an IG (but OOC-driven) social expectation that female characters conform to Western cultural stereotypes. Often, their leadership seems to be less appreciated. More commonly than male characters, they are rewarded for being sexual objects--paid with increased interaction and sometimes outright gifts.

I've seen many more PC female whores than male whores IC. Just saying.

To paraphrase an old saw about military leadership for women (in the U.S., anyway) women have to choose between the roles of bitch and a whore.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Marauder Moe on May 14, 2013, 06:08:04 PM
I would like to note that context of the original discussion was about a newbie player's experience, not that of a leader.

I don't think it's easier to play a female leader PC in Arm.  It might indeed be harder, but my personal sample set does not include a rough-and-tough forceful leader character yet.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Kismetic on May 14, 2013, 06:10:10 PM
There is an IG (but OOC-driven) social expectation that female characters conform to Western cultural stereotypes. Often, their leadership seems to be less appreciated. More commonly than male characters, they are rewarded for being sexual objects--paid with increased interaction and sometimes outright gifts.

This is fringe behaviour.  In my own limited experience, this is not prevalent.

I've seen many more PC female whores than male whores IC. Just saying.

It does seem out of ratio, maybe there should be a role call.  :P

Someone mentioned that there is far more lesbianism than male homosexuality...

Hetero* men have a physiological response to male-to-male coupling, and it can range from discomfort to outright abhorrence.  It is why we fear prison.

*The Kinsey scale was not consulted prior to this post
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Marauder Moe on May 14, 2013, 06:17:13 PM
Hetero* men have a physiological response to male-to-male coupling, and it can range from discomfort to outright abhorrence.  It is why we fear prison.

I wouldn't say it's physiological.  It may very well be cultural.  There were periods in history (Greek-Roman times) where M/M sexual activity was pretty casual, if not common, while F/F was considered gross and unnatural.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Kismetic on May 14, 2013, 06:18:32 PM
Hetero* men have a physiological response to male-to-male coupling, and it can range from discomfort to outright abhorrence.  It is why we fear prison.

I wouldn't say it's physiological.  It may very well be cultural.  There were periods in history (Greek-Roman times) where M/M sexual activity was pretty casual, if not common, while F/F was considered gross and unnatural.

That's a whole other conversation.  :P
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: The Silence of the Erdlus on May 14, 2013, 06:18:53 PM
For me, anyway, its much more difficult to play a woman than a man but I _can't_ play a man because that thing dangling between my legs will throw me off almost as badly as the lack of boobs and added waist will. Its like playing a five-toed cat.

There is only one reason for that. Getting constantly hit on, something which happens SO often to me in real life that it is literally at the point where I think I'm going to go mad from annoyance. Well lately its been better but that's because I haven't left the house as much as I usually do.

People in the game are better about it--- I honestly don't play the most approachable people--- but it still happens with relative frequency if I'm not playing a breed or a witch.

Not a big deal. That would like saying people sneezing pisses you off. For some reason its easier to deal with in the game because I tend to play people who get the urge to tell these people to go suck it or laugh in their face. In real life I'm much nicer and just ignore them because I don't wants to hurt their feelings.

EDIT: Mistake I half-corrected.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Marauder Moe on May 14, 2013, 06:26:58 PM
...wat?

 :D

Sorry, I do not mean offense, but I'm baffled and amused by the notion that a virtual dong is what's keeping you from playing a male character.


Hetero* men have a physiological response to male-to-male coupling, and it can range from discomfort to outright abhorrence.  It is why we fear prison.

I wouldn't say it's physiological.  It may very well be cultural.  There were periods in history (Greek-Roman times) where M/M sexual activity was pretty casual, if not common, while F/F was considered gross and unnatural.

That's a whole other conversation.  :P
Indeed.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Morrolan on May 14, 2013, 06:36:55 PM
That's a whole other conversation.  :P

I'd say it's definitely related to this conversation. We're talking about playing a game that challenges Western cultural definitions of gender. Taking part in that game isn't easy. That is exactly the topic.

Maybe homosexuality is another thread, but the naturalization* of gender identity and roles is exactly the point.

*Naturalization here refers to the belief that culturally dictated ideas are seen to be inherent and true across all times and cultures.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: catchall on May 14, 2013, 06:44:41 PM
Hetero* men have a physiological response to male-to-male coupling, and it can range from discomfort to outright abhorrence.  It is why we fear prison.

I wouldn't say it's physiological.  It may very well be cultural.  There were periods in history (Greek-Roman times) where M/M sexual activity was pretty casual, if not common, while F/F was considered gross and unnatural.

That's a whole other conversation.  :P

Actually it's not.  You're making a claim about human physiology. It's not a different conversation; it's a direct and damning indictment of your completely unsourced claim. (It's also a really common claim of anti-gay bigots who want to claim it's just "natural" to seethe hatred of gay people. Great company you're keeping there.)  People of other cultures have the same physiology but different responses.  You can't make claims about human physiological universals, then handwave away (or smiley-tongue-face away) the glaring counterexamples.  (Particularly not if you're also in the habit of declaring, by fiat, that your opinions are "reasonable conclusions," and implying that everyone that doesn't agree with you is an irrational fool.)

You also can't declare, by fiat, that an insufferably banal and unimaginative sexist comment constitutes "edgy humor" that everyone else is just too "secular" (seriously, wtf?) to understand, but that is a whole 'nother conversation.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Riya OniSenshi on May 14, 2013, 06:48:11 PM
There is an IG (but OOC-driven) social expectation that female characters conform to Western cultural stereotypes. Often, their leadership seems to be less appreciated. More commonly than male characters, they are rewarded for being sexual objects--paid with increased interaction and sometimes outright gifts.

This is fringe behaviour.  In my own limited experience, this is not prevalent.


If your experience is limited, you can not claim this to be fringe behaviour.

I see it much too often for it to be anything close to "fringe". Most people that see it may not even recognize it for what it is if they're used to seeing it normally.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: lordcooper on May 14, 2013, 06:56:18 PM
There is an IG (but OOC-driven) social expectation that female characters conform to Western cultural stereotypes. Often, their leadership seems to be less appreciated. More commonly than male characters, they are rewarded for being sexual objects--paid with increased interaction and sometimes outright gifts.

This is fringe behaviour.  In my own limited experience, this is not prevalent.


If your experience is limited, you can not claim this to be fringe behaviour.

I see it much too often for it to be anything close to "fringe". Most people that see it may not even recognize it for what it is if they're used to seeing it normally.

To be fair, the reverse is also true.  Those occasions you have witnessed may have been the only times this occurred.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Case on May 14, 2013, 06:57:43 PM
Wow, this thread exploded overnight.

Don't let this devolve into bickering, especially about homosexuality. That homosexuality is relevant to a discussion about playing females as a strategy is even more bothersome imo. There are more gay or bi girls IG to my knowledge than gay or bi guys. That's predictable.  Gay guys are awesome though! :)  A shame there's not many, but predictable given the demographic (I do contribute with the majority of my PCs being bi).

Back on topic:
I understand the gender and sexual politics at play here. I'm not ignorant of the motivations or cultural bent or social mores that produce the situation. I took a greater offense that it got brought into the New Players forum - I consider misinformation or joking to newbies about things counter to the docs a Bad Thing.

I have found a lot of this thread interesting. I don't always agree with it, but so what? I'm not here to snipe anybody (not a political thread) and I'm not here to be snarky (anywhere else), I just had an emotional problem as per the OP and wanted to raise it for discussion. I posted it here in World Discussion for a reason - because I care about the IC representations of women and men and the RP surrounding them. I don't care if you don't like playing women or guys, don't care if you're gay or bi or totally straight, don't care if you open jars for women IRL, don't care if you're Desertman with views from 1850, don't care if you're a liberal fag like me, the fact RL even comes into it is the problem! We can untangle a lot of ourselves from our characters already. A lot of RP here on Arm is fucking awesome. Yet, when it comes to this problem, preferential treatment of women or the perception of it, it becomes a spoken fact, an unwritten rule and something we cannot change because: straight man likes girls and lesbians are hot. Are we that simple?
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Kismetic on May 14, 2013, 07:01:08 PM
Sorry, I do not mean offense, but I'm baffled and amused by the notion that a virtual dong is what's keeping you from playing a male character.

lol


You can't make claims about human physiological universals, then handwave away (or smiley-tongue-face away) the glaring counterexamples.  

Moe already corrected me.  It's surely cultural in origin, but that's not a subject material for this thread.

I'm sorry you read into my words that way.  I'm a bit disappointed that Case would take it in a similar light, too, as her and I are/were friends.  I'm fairly confident that the subject matter of this thread occurs minimally in the game, and is easily correctable using the proper tools.

Yet, when it comes to this problem, preferential treatment of women or the perception of it, it becomes a spoken fact, an unwritten rule and something we cannot change because: straight man likes girls and lesbians are hot. Are we that simple?

Ugh, yes.  Yes, we are.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Case on May 14, 2013, 07:04:14 PM
I'm sorry you read into my words that way.  I'm a bit disappointed that Case would take it in a similar light, too, as her and I are/were friends.  I'm fairly confident that the subject matter of this thread occurs minimally in the game, and is easily correctable using the proper tools.

What on earth are you talking about? I'm totally your friend! I have nothing against you, don't take this thread personally.

Quote from: Kismetic
Yet, when it comes to this problem, preferential treatment of women or the perception of it, it becomes a spoken fact, an unwritten rule and something we cannot change because: straight man likes girls and lesbians are hot. Are we that simple?

Ugh, yes.  Yes, we are.

Sucks :(
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: lordcooper on May 14, 2013, 07:08:13 PM
Yet, when it comes to this problem, preferential treatment of women or the perception of it, it becomes a spoken fact, an unwritten rule and something we cannot change because: straight man likes girls and lesbians are hot. Are we that simple?

The solution to whichever problem actually exists (female characters being easy mode or being falsely thought of as easy mode) is exactly the same: the playerbase achieving a greater degree of IC/OOC separation.

Lesbians are hot though.  Four boobs is a good amount of boobs, y'know?
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Bogre on May 14, 2013, 07:09:22 PM
I agree that the suggestion to 'play a female aide' because it was easy was asinine.

Now- is it actually easier ? I think it's a issue with a lot of confounding factors. I have a feeling that a greater female players are more likely to play purely social roles, or crafting roles. This isn't wrong or sexist by any stretch of the imagination- whatever makes people happy they should play. But I have played many RPI's and indeed, a higher percentage of female PC's are shop owners, aides, healers, and nobles. I think those roles, in and of themselves, have a greater deal of safety associated with them. I think males are just more likely to make fightery go-out-and-die stupidly PCs.

Do PC's look out for female PCs? I think there could be, yes. I'm not sure at all on this point. I myself have headsmashed a posh female aide PC for doing something she should not have done to my giant a few years ago. I felt bad about it, but I usually feel bad about most PKs, not because it was a female char.

I think most of this phenomenon, Case, is the -roles- the PCs are taking being less constantly endangered, rather than them being protected by some mystic female-shield.

Something interesting might be to determine character death vs. storage by sex on the ongoing character # thread. I have a hypothesis the females will have more storages/total characters rather than deaths/total characters.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Morrolan on May 14, 2013, 07:18:26 PM
I'm fairly confident that the subject matter of this thread occurs minimally in the game, and is easily correctable using the proper tools.

I am completely certain that it occurs more than minimally. I am also fairly certain that if it were easily correctable, we wouldn't be on page five already.

EDIT: "More than minimally" here means that it is common enough that it is easily find-able in game, and has spawned both a trope and a 5-page thread. If that's minimal for you, then we have found the root of our disagreement.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Bogre on May 14, 2013, 07:19:07 PM
Also, I'll speak a little bit to my personal style.

I tend to ignore generic looking female PCs, and especially those who are more heavily F-Me. Sorry, gals. I am much more likely to try and play with your short-shorn militia Corporal or beaten-down rinthi hooker or wild-eyed rogue Whiran than your ginka-baking aide. This may be a bit of a clump from when I played ARPI and SoI, the so-and-so eyed, x-haired women all kind of ran together. This -ALSO- goes for all the guys who play random-hunter X, they kind of dissolve together for me.

I will go to great lengths to save a gritty female character, because I think those kind of chars are really cool, so at least for me this phenomenon is reversed. (And I'll go to great lengths to save gritty ass guys, too, for the same reasons.)
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Morrolan on May 14, 2013, 07:23:56 PM
This -ALSO- goes for all the guys who play random-hunter X, they kind of dissolve together for me.

The tattooed, scarred halfbreed endorses this. (No offense to anyone who's played the scarred, tattooed dude. One of my most beloved characters was this.)
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Kismetic on May 14, 2013, 07:28:54 PM
Give me an example.  Obviously, it doesn't have to be recent.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: catchall on May 14, 2013, 07:33:23 PM
Quote from: Kismetic
Yet, when it comes to this problem, preferential treatment of women or the perception of it, it becomes a spoken fact, an unwritten rule and something we cannot change because: straight man likes girls and lesbians are hot. Are we that simple?

Ugh, yes.  Yes, we are.

Sucks :(
[/quote]

It's only "that simple" if you're lazy.  It's actually not that hard, IRL or IG, for a reasonably self-aware straight man to not turn into a drooling sycophant in the presence of a pretty girl or OMG lesbians.  To suggest otherwise only reflects on the speaker.  When someone comes along to say "This is an absolute truth about people of category X," just mentally replace that with "Here are my cherished personal hangups about category X," because that is inevitably the truth in all but the most trivial cases.  You can see it in the "world without sexism" thread where people parade their confused ideas about what masculinity and feminity "just ARE," completely oblivious to the actual range of variation just on little old earth, to say nothing about an imaginary fantasy world.

It's really not that hard.  A shred of self-reflection and open-mindedness, applied regularly, can work wonders.  Don't just give up because thinking about it is too hard and you already know everything there is to know about the sexes.  Give a little breath to the idea that "hey, maybe my beloved personal hangups about what men and women have to be aren't necessarily true, least of all in a fantasy world."  Put aside the cultural bullshit, like the heaps of Cosmo and Men's Health articles pushing boring old stereotypes about men and women, and actually give that idea a fair shake.

It's my opinion that the game would be just as good if gender didn't exist at all.  You could make all the characters intersex, with a penis and a vagina both, and the best parts of the game would be completely unaffected. Of course, we can't do that, because many people have a hard time even humanizing others that don't fit into predefined gender categories, and we'd just become "that weird game with the hermaphrodites." Pronouns would be tough too.  But I think it's a useful thought exercise in game.  Imagine all the characters around you are gender neutral. Would it drastically change your responses to them?
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: MeTekillot on May 14, 2013, 07:43:37 PM
Goddamn, catchall. You go.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Jingo on May 14, 2013, 07:44:08 PM
Actually its pretty much a sociological fact that we're all sexist (and racist). Probably at an unconscious level.

In my mind, the only cure is constant introspection. I've made jokes about and ignored *cough* played *cough* F-me pc's before. And each instance likely had some inkling of regressive bias within it. Probably the only solution at this point is self introspection and to ask yourself, why you did or said or posted the things you did.

Except for kismet.
Misogynistic db.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Kismetic on May 14, 2013, 07:44:24 PM
I think that gender individuality is a decent source of conflict, so long as it doesn't break the rule of gender equality.  We've all managed to play that into our collective sandbox, and I thought we were doing fine.

Instead of the sexism some are seeing, instead, I see a lot of past successful female characters and leaders.  Furthermore, staff seem to be on the ball with nipping things in the bud, you may want to take official response with your disagreements.

Anyway, good luck finding your answers, Case.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Fredd on May 14, 2013, 07:54:53 PM
Now, I do want to ask.


Do ya'll have a promblem with men playing a womanizer? In the way that the Man thinks he's hot shit in chalice, so just expects every woman should want to fuck him.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: MeTekillot on May 14, 2013, 07:56:53 PM
Does your man see women as inherently inferior or in some way exceptionally talented or talentless in some aspect due to sex or gender?

No?

Then I don't, personally.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Kismetic on May 14, 2013, 08:01:16 PM
Probably the only solution at this point is self introspection and to ask yourself, why you did or said or posted the things you did.

I guess it is sort of funny that I've always supported women's and homosexual's equality, and I get ripped in a gender equality discussion.  Sensitivity training:  FAIL

I can't post in this thread anymore.  It's like when Samoa and Kronibas went psycho dating on the Arm Dating thread.  I'm outtie
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Fredd on May 14, 2013, 08:02:07 PM
Probably the only solution at this point is self introspection and to ask yourself, why you did or said or posted the things you did.

I guess it is sort of funny that I've always supported women's and homosexual's equality, and I get ripped in a gender equality discussion.  Sensitivity training:  FAIL


Hey, we're going to need a bigger skimmer if any more of us get in it.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Jingo on May 14, 2013, 08:08:40 PM
Probably the only solution at this point is self introspection and to ask yourself, why you did or said or posted the things you did.

I guess it is sort of funny that I've always supported women's and homosexual's equality, and I get ripped in a gender equality discussion.  Sensitivity training:  FAIL

I can't post in this thread anymore.  It's like when Samoa and Kronibas went psycho dating on the Arm Dating thread.  I'm outtie

Actually wasn't targeting you there kismet, you as in general you. <3

Still a db though.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Case on May 14, 2013, 08:31:21 PM
It's only "that simple" if you're lazy.  It's actually not that hard, IRL or IG, for a reasonably self-aware straight man to not turn into a drooling sycophant in the presence of a pretty girl or OMG lesbians.  To suggest otherwise only reflects on the speaker.  When someone comes along to say "This is an absolute truth about people of category X," just mentally replace that with "Here are my cherished personal hangups about category X," because that is inevitably the truth in all but the most trivial cases.  You can see it in the "world without sexism" thread where people parade their confused ideas about what masculinity and feminity "just ARE," completely oblivious to the actual range of variation just on little old earth, to say nothing about an imaginary fantasy world.

It's really not that hard.  A shred of self-reflection and open-mindedness, applied regularly, can work wonders.  Don't just give up because thinking about it is too hard and you already know everything there is to know about the sexes.  Give a little breath to the idea that "hey, maybe my beloved personal hangups about what men and women have to be aren't necessarily true, least of all in a fantasy world."  Put aside the cultural bullshit, like the heaps of Cosmo and Men's Health articles pushing boring old stereotypes about men and women, and actually give that idea a fair shake.

It's my opinion that the game would be just as good if gender didn't exist at all.  You could make all the characters intersex, with a penis and a vagina both, and the best parts of the game would be completely unaffected. Of course, we can't do that, because many people have a hard time even humanizing others that don't fit into predefined gender categories, and we'd just become "that weird game with the hermaphrodites." Pronouns would be tough too.  But I think it's a useful thought exercise in game.  Imagine all the characters around you are gender neutral. Would it drastically change your responses to them?

I love this post. Barring the intersex part, don't think that's necessary :D
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Fathi on May 14, 2013, 08:46:49 PM
I tend to play mostly female characters because prior to discovering Armageddon I played almost exclusively males.

Why? Because I found that if I rolled up female characters on other games or free-form message board RPGs or whatever the hell, the experience was always awkwardly oversexed and creepy. People would see a brand new female PC played by somebody who could spell properly and they would flock toward my characters like some sort of bizarre and uncomfortable feeing frenzy, except replace the piranhas with horny internet dudes. It was awful.

Even if my characters were unattractive, boring, asexual, mutated, bald, diseased, you name it. On another game I once played a tattooed, stubble-headed female gang leader who was eventually killed by zombies and turned into one--complete with grotesque bite marks and decomposition--and people still drew her as hot in the art thread. WTF.

So I turned to playing men, because then I could play the personalities I wanted without having to deal with the over-the-top flirtatious weirdness. If I wanted to play a tattooed gang leader or a burnt-out soldier or a nervous scientist or a dodgy pilot who chain-smoked, that was all okay to do as long as my characters were male. Otherwise, if I made the exact same PC but gender-swapped them to female, other players would initiate a whole bunch of sexytime romantic bullshit or knight in shining armour bullshit that got in the way of how I wanted to play my characters.

I embraced playing females on Armageddon because we have cultivated a game culture that makes it possible to play a woman who isn't expected to conform to Western ideals about women and sex. If people choose to play that way, it's a-okay by me, as long as I have the option not to. If you want to play a f-me Bynner who braids her runners' hair and sews pretty cloaks in her off time, that is fine! So long as I have the option to play a muscular beefcake aide who talks in monosyllables and dresses in drag.

This seems like a lot of wind-up toward something that's only tangentially related to females being easy-mode, but I wanted to express where I was coming from prior to Armageddon to help emphasize that as far as sexism and gender disparity goes, our game already blows others out of the water and we should be fucking proud of it.

I have experienced some instances of "female easy mode" on some of my female PCs, but looking back, I am not sure that could be tied so much to their feminine gender as to the fact that the PCs of mine who were treated better by others were more sociable, nicer, and more outgoing. For every female PC I've played who was treated nicely, I've had at least one or two who were beaten up in the Gaj, stolen from, spit on, mugged, accused of being criminals/magickers/whatever, that sort of thing.

In my anecdotal experience I would tie the "easy mode" symptoms more to how your PC acts than to its gender. Of course, if more people are playing females who are sociable, outgoing, flirtatious, and sexually available than male PCs of the same personality, then it would look like a "male vs. female" problem when I see it as more a consequence of how certain personalities are treated in the game.

I'm not going to pretend we don't have some issues when it comes to sex and gender, but overall we are doing much, much better than the competition.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Fredd on May 14, 2013, 09:20:40 PM
In my anecdotal experience I would tie the "easy mode" symptoms more to how your PC acts than to its gender. Of course, if more people are playing females who are sociable, outgoing, flirtatious, and sexually available than male PCs of the same personality, then it would look like a "male vs. female" problem when I see it as more a consequence of how certain personalities are treated in the game.

I'm not going to pretend we don't have some issues when it comes to sex and gender, but overall we are doing much, much better than the competition.

Thank you Fathi. I was to stupid to get that point out as well as you just did.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Zerero on May 14, 2013, 11:49:00 PM
I'm outtie

+1
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: musashi on May 15, 2013, 01:06:59 AM
Aaaaaannnnd Fathi wins.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: BleakOne on May 15, 2013, 01:09:39 AM
Aaaaaannnnd Fathi wins.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: evil_erdlu on May 15, 2013, 01:43:53 AM
Aaaaaannnnd Fathi wins.

*fat lady singing* [/thread]
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: spicemustflow on May 15, 2013, 02:54:11 AM
...wat?

 :D

Sorry, I do not mean offense, but I'm baffled and amused by the notion that a virtual dong is what's keeping you from playing a male character.

I was also gonna comment on that. Makes me wonder how people could play mantis back in the day. Or maybe it's a more common problem than we think and girl gamers have troubles playing dead space or GTA? But I never heard of a guy who can't play tomb raider because of the tits.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Fujikoma on May 15, 2013, 04:15:13 AM
...wat?

 :D

Sorry, I do not mean offense, but I'm baffled and amused by the notion that a virtual dong is what's keeping you from playing a male character.

I was also gonna comment on that. Makes me wonder how people could play mantis back in the day. Or maybe it's a more common problem than we think and girl gamers have troubles playing dead space or GTA? But I never heard of a guy who can't play tomb raider because of the tits.

I kept falling to my doom because I couldn't keep my balance with such large breasts. I've never been good at tomb raider, enjoyed watching other people play it, though.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: spicemustflow on May 15, 2013, 04:56:41 AM
I kept falling to my doom because I couldn't keep my balance with such large breasts.

Yeah, I always thought they should give her a huge dong as a counterweight.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Gunnerblaster on May 15, 2013, 05:42:27 AM
Personally, I choose not to treat female characters any different from male characters, unless it's IC to do so.

I'm an equal opportunity roleplayer, regardless of gender :P
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Fujikoma on May 15, 2013, 06:39:09 AM
I kept falling to my doom because I couldn't keep my balance with such large breasts.

Yeah, I always thought they should give her a huge dong as a counterweight.

I laughed at this for a good 20 minutes, maybe I should get some sleep?

EDIT: Not that I would think there's anything wrong with that, but it would be so unexpected and out of the norm. I'd play it.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: The Silence of the Erdlus on May 15, 2013, 08:23:05 AM
...wat?

 :D

Sorry, I do not mean offense, but I'm baffled and amused by the notion that a virtual dong is what's keeping you from playing a male character.

I was also gonna comment on that. Makes me wonder how people could play mantis back in the day. Or maybe it's a more common problem than we think and girl gamers have troubles playing dead space or GTA? But I never heard of a guy who can't play tomb raider because of the tits.

For me, its not that I'm playing a human plus dude bits minus girl bits on any other game. Those games are games, pitiful fabrications designed to entertain me with a virtual world.

In Armageddon, I _am_ the character. That's my mentality.

Which makes the fact that I've actually successfully played a sociopath before, and that my insane characters tend to be among my best ones, that will never not disturb me.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Scarecrow on May 15, 2013, 08:50:01 AM
I've only ever played as male PC's. I'm not sure females are 'EZ' mode, as I've seen successful PC's of both genders, in all the different roles in Armageddon. I think I'm pretty good at the whole gender equality thing in Zalanthas, I don't tend to base any actions or reactions on the gender of the other PC. I find though, that female PC's often make a better effort at befriending my PC's through interaction in a positive sense, where as male PC's tend to interact more negatively and in a hostile fashion. I've also found several female PC's to be a bit more fleshed out and "real" than male PC's, but that could also just be the players of those characters were particularly good at RP, and had nothing to do with them being female PC's.

I find also these threads tend to turn into subtle ways for players to critisize how others play their characters. I.E giving hassles to F'me's and Muscle-men, emo breeds, etc etc. To me, I'm pretty relaxed in this regard and however someone else wants to play there character is fine with me. I wouldn't like someone to be reading the GBD, see a comment, and feel bad and think "Oh, are they talking about my PC?" because that might make them not want to play anymore. And that is to nobody's advantage.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Barzalene on May 15, 2013, 08:52:01 AM

I find also these threads tend to turn into subtle ways for players to critisize how others play their characters. I.E giving hassles to F'me's and Muscle-men, emo breeds, etc etc. To me, I'm pretty relaxed in this regard and however someone else wants to play there character is fine with me. I wouldn't like someone to be reading the GBD, see a comment, and feel bad and think "Oh, are they talking about my PC?" because that might make them not want to play anymore. And that is to nobody's advantage.

I am guilty of this. I think you're correct. I think I'll use you as an example and try to do a bit better.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: spicemustflow on May 15, 2013, 10:07:24 AM
In Armageddon, I _am_ the character. That's my mentality.

Which makes the fact that I've actually successfully played a sociopath before, and that my insane characters tend to be among my best ones, that will never not disturb me.

That's called imagination. Every good writer can and does come up with deep and even likeable villains. In fact, many writers and actors even enjoy creating such characters. Dickens sucked at positive protagonists while his creeps were usually very memorable. It doesn't mean he himself had the potential to be a killer, thief, pedorapist or such, it means that evil is both easier and more enjoyable to write about/act/play. Relax.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Marauder Moe on May 15, 2013, 10:24:50 AM
For me, its not that I'm playing a human plus dude bits minus girl bits on any other game. Those games are games, pitiful fabrications designed to entertain me with a virtual world.

In Armageddon, I _am_ the character. That's my mentality.

Which makes the fact that I've actually successfully played a sociopath before, and that my insane characters tend to be among my best ones, that will never not disturb me.

Yeah but... we don't go around roleplaying that actual bits!

At least... not very often.  :D


Anyway, my (hopefully) final thoughts on the thread:
1) Ultimately, Case is right.  Advising newbies, even in jest, to play a female character solely as a means to attract interaction was wrong.
2) ... Actually that's about it.  I apologize for any offense.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Morrolan on May 15, 2013, 10:30:32 AM
It doesn't mean he himself had the potential to be a killer, thief, pedorapist or such...

I read "podiatrist"...
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: PriestlySiren on May 15, 2013, 11:22:35 AM
You know, as a female, I actually, as a general rule play crafters, musicians, etc - on other games. With my character here, I've been trying to make a more tough character who isn't nice. So... essentially opposite-me. It does seem to come across as male-playing-female, I think. But I'm probably not that good at playing tough girls just yet, because in real life I wouldn't know how to be tough if it bit me on the butt - I'm sorta a powder puff.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Narf on May 15, 2013, 01:19:49 PM
You know, as a female, I actually, as a general rule play crafters, musicians, etc - on other games. With my character here, I've been trying to make a more tough character who isn't nice. So... essentially opposite-me. It does seem to come across as male-playing-female, I think. But I'm probably not that good at playing tough girls just yet, because in real life I wouldn't know how to be tough if it bit me on the butt - I'm sorta a powder puff.

Honestly, seeming like a male playing a female isn't that out of sorts on arm. If you nix gendered cultural norms, women are going to seem a lot more like men anyhow. You're going to have a subset that are going to be leering, bawdy, arrogant, douchie, socially inept, wannabe and all sorts of other things that we typically associate more with maleness.

Honestly I don't think one should just concentrate on the things we usually associate as positive masculine traits when you're playing masculine women. They should have a pretty equal proportion of the really obnoxious "masculine" traits as well.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: LauraMars on May 15, 2013, 02:09:30 PM
By that logic, males should have an equal proportion of "feminine" traits to "masculine" traits.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: MeTekillot on May 15, 2013, 02:11:28 PM
"Quotation" marks.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Delirium on May 15, 2013, 02:14:09 PM
because the only way to play a nonstereotypical female is to play a sterotypical male.

???
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Patuk on May 15, 2013, 02:21:28 PM
By that logic, males should have an equal proportion of "feminine" traits to "masculine" traits.

Er, yes? I don't see how that's a bad thing at all.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: James de Monet on May 15, 2013, 02:25:21 PM
Honestly I don't think one should just concentrate on the things we usually associate as positive masculine traits when you're playing masculine women. They should have a pretty equal proportion of the really obnoxious "masculine" traits as well.

Really, though, you should probably also see a dissemination of "feminine" traits across males as well, if we're talking not just abot gender equality, but also about gender parity.  Sensitivity and nurturing may not be terribly Zalanthan expressions outside the home, but others might be.  One thing I could never really get to is the point where I didn't feel weird having my male characters wear flowers, or "girly" jewelry. I don't think it would be weird on Zalanthas, but I can't get there. It doesn't look right in my head.

EDIT: Looks like LM beat me to the punch.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Patuk on May 15, 2013, 02:30:22 PM
Honestly I don't think one should just concentrate on the things we usually associate as positive masculine traits when you're playing masculine women. They should have a pretty equal proportion of the really obnoxious "masculine" traits as well.

Really, though, you should probably also see a dissemination of "feminine" traits across males as well, if we're talking not just abot gender equality, but also about gender parity.  Sensitivity and nurturing may not be terribly Zalanthan expressions outside the home, but others might be.  One thing I could never really get to is the point where I didn't feel weird having my male characters wear flowers, or "girly" jewelry. I don't think it would be weird on Zalanthas, but I can't get there. It doesn't look right in my head.

EDIT: Looks like LM beat me to the punch.

My (non-combat) males wear jewelry all the time. I keep wondering what others think of it, too :3
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: MeTekillot on May 15, 2013, 02:38:00 PM
Every single male I have played has worn flowers in their hair and expensive jewelry, as long as we're comparing femininity penises.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Fujikoma on May 15, 2013, 02:48:44 PM
Wear pilfered gith shit erryday. Smell like a mek's butthole.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: chrisdcoulombe on May 15, 2013, 03:02:09 PM
I only play asexual males and play that females are the same as males.  So I have no input, although it has been an interesting discussion.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Fredd on May 15, 2013, 03:11:42 PM
Every single male I have played has worn flowers in their hair and expensive jewelry, as long as we're comparing femininity penises.


Depending on the guy I'm playing, I've done this a few times in the past. Very fancy, foppish merchants are fun to play.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: James de Monet on May 15, 2013, 03:19:18 PM
I didn't want to further derail this thread, but I think the jewelry thing is an interesting question, so I started a new thread -here- (http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,45527.0.html).
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Iiyola on May 15, 2013, 06:35:52 PM
Get rid of kilts. EVERYTHING SHOULD BE SKIRTS.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Kaineus on May 15, 2013, 06:39:23 PM
Get rid of kilts. EVERYTHING SHOULD BE SKIRTS.

And rename codpieces "gender neutral genital guards"
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Barzalene on May 15, 2013, 07:00:52 PM
Get rid of kilts. EVERYTHING SHOULD BE SKIRTS.

And rename codpieces "gender neutral genital guards"

To call them gender neutral genital guards would imply that we were differentiating them from gender specific genital guards.

Hey there? Mr. Salarri Man? I need a helmet, a gorget and a gender neutral genital guard.

Hey there, I couldn't help but admire your gender neutral genital guard.


This made me happy.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Morrolan on May 15, 2013, 07:07:05 PM
Hey there, I couldn't help but admire your gender neutral genital guard.

Is that a piece of armor, or a job description?
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: James de Monet on May 15, 2013, 07:16:53 PM
Hey there, I couldn't help but admire your gender neutral genital guard.
Is that a piece of armor, or a job description?

Pretty sure they have that job. It's called a eunuch.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: PriestlySiren on May 15, 2013, 09:02:21 PM
because the only way to play a nonstereotypical female is to play a sterotypical male.

???

Not precisely what I said. I said I was trying something new for me, and it was coming across like that - I haven't figured out how to fix it yet.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Zoan on May 17, 2013, 08:17:22 AM
I've never played a female who's been pandered to for her gender. For her personality, perhaps, but never her gender.

I've played tons of males who are categorized regarding their gender, though. Isn't that unusual?
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Is Friday on May 18, 2013, 11:56:57 PM
I've played men and women in different tiers of society. (Like 95% women, though....) Generally, playing women is more frustrating on a number of levels because of the way they are interacted with is contradictory of docs. Men are treated autonomously and in accordance with documentation regarding culture/race/prejudices. Women don't follow the same rules, so often you have to fit within someone's "mold" as a female PC or be labeled a "bitch" or some manner of that. You usually have to fall within certain "good categories" and hopefully not be along the lines of someone's RL prejudices, as well.

Some of my common experiences:
1.) Female PCs passive aggressive fight you at first sign you don't want to be their best longest lived one true friend. This first sign can be simple indifference or anything less than gushy enthusiasm for everything other female PC is saying.
2.) You're expected to be flattered by men.
3.) You should never achieve a position of power or exert your power like a man would, otherwise... nerd rage ensues.




With that being said, that's just my anecdotal evidence. I think Armageddon does it 50x's better than any other MUD. But playing a female is more difficult sometimes, yes, in my opinion.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: wildhalfling on May 19, 2013, 09:37:56 AM
I played one female PC in my 10+ years. I had more interaction on that character in a few days with barely any effort than on male characters in the same amount of time. It seems male characters need to "prove" themselves to others before getting invited along while my one female character was basically wayed all the time by people I didn't even remember running into. Actually I didn't, they overheard my characters name and wayed me later. I was awed.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Riya OniSenshi on May 19, 2013, 10:35:38 AM
I've played men and women in different tiers of society. (Like 95% women, though....) Generally, playing women is more frustrating on a number of levels because of the way they are interacted with is contradictory of docs. Men are treated autonomously and in accordance with documentation regarding culture/race/prejudices. Women don't follow the same rules, so often you have to fit within someone's "mold" as a female PC or be labeled a "bitch" or some manner of that. You usually have to fall within certain "good categories" and hopefully not be along the lines of someone's RL prejudices, as well.

Some of my common experiences:
1.) Female PCs passive aggressive fight you at first sign you don't want to be their best longest lived one true friend. This first sign can be simple indifference or anything less than gushy enthusiasm for everything other female PC is saying.
2.) You're expected to be flattered by men.
3.) You should never achieve a position of power or exert your power like a man would, otherwise... nerd rage ensues.




With that being said, that's just my anecdotal evidence. I think Armageddon does it 50x's better than any other MUD. But playing a female is more difficult sometimes, yes, in my opinion.

This is true. Confirming anecdote.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Morrolan on May 19, 2013, 11:12:18 AM
When I think of strong female leaders in fiction, I often think of Princess Kushana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nausica%C3%A4_of_the_Valley_of_the_Wind_characters#Kushana) from Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nausica%C3%A4_of_the_Valley_of_the_Wind_(film)). She's beautiful, ruthless, and not at all "girly." She's a woman with a purpose. That she's a villain is only a matter of perspective.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: DustMight on May 19, 2013, 11:22:49 AM
My very first character on a mud (LPMUD Realms) was a chick.  And it totally was easy mode.  So easy!  People would group up with me just so we could chat while they went out and earned XP for my character (because you would share with the whole group when you killed something). 

I still play females (about 50% of the time) but while there are those moments (when mr. nice guy falls for ill looking female alley-rat) most of the time it is not like that and it is about the same experience female or male.  Different but similar - maybe that's what I mean.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Harmless on May 19, 2013, 12:05:53 PM
Hayao Miyazaki is a true feminist. Almost all of his female characters, even the young girls (who, due to their age, lack independence, but not because of gender), are great examples of female characters that would generally fit Arma's docs.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: evil_erdlu on May 19, 2013, 01:57:19 PM
Now checking it, that I have played females for about 50% for my characters.. I haven't seen the easy mode. There may be other reasons. Maybe it's because I play only 'rinthi assassins, tuluki merchants and gemmers. God these three classes are all easy modes. Maybe it's because I mostly FTB when there's a sexual encounter. Still, guess what, and be creeped out, I FTP less when I play a female because I feel I can emote just like the male wants to see... hehehe! Now go bleach your brain. That tuluki merchant? It was me! That rather pale human female seemingly earning only by her subguild? That was me too!

I feel the trend in other characters sometimes. My honest observation. There are still _so_ many female characters I met that need to be loved and protected and supported and fragile and moody and... My characters, even young ones, IC, actually think "Oh Muk/Tek/Ruk! Another sob story and another attention whore. I hope this time I can stay awake."

But guess what? I do have strong reasons to believe at least half of these are played by males. Players with pee pees. They're trying to imagine what being a woman is like, OOC conceptions kick in and here you go, another damsel in distress!

My two 'sids.. *avoids the rain of petoch*
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: DustMight on May 19, 2013, 06:44:33 PM
There are still _so_ many female characters I met that need to be loved and protected and supported and fragile and moody and... My characters, even young ones, IC, actually think "Oh Muk/Tek/Ruk! Another sob story and another attention whore. I hope this time I can stay awake."

But guess what? I do have strong reasons to believe at least half of these are played by males. Players with pee pees. They're trying to imagine what being a woman is like, OOC conceptions kick in and here you go, another damsel in distress!

There is nothing wrong with playing a character (male or female) who is is this way - Sob stories, drama, feeling sorry for one's self - these are all part of the human experience.  To think that all Arma characters are made of rock and all must be stalwart in the face of distress is boring.

Variety is the spice of life.  Having both hard-asses and fluffies makes the world go 'round.  If, indeed, this world does go 'round something.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: evil_erdlu on May 20, 2013, 12:25:21 AM
There is nothing wrong with playing a character (male or female) who is is this way - Sob stories, drama, feeling sorry for one's self - these are all part of the human experience.  To think that all Arma characters are made of rock and all must be stalwart in the face of distress is boring.

Variety is the spice of life.  Having both hard-asses and fluffies makes the world go 'round.  If, indeed, this world does go 'round something.

A little bit of drama? Who doesn't?! A depressive bit of drama? S**t happens! A mental-disorder-grade drama? Nope. I refuse. It can't happen. In a world like Zalanthas that character wouldn't be able to come to the age of 20. I'm speaking about needy sobbing drama queens. Sometimes you see none of them, some time, even during off-peak, three of them. When I see three of them, I leave the tavern. Go and quit. Don't play for a few days or change the tavern my character is hanging out. I'm serious.

It breaks my immersion. It makes me look at the screen and say "She cuts the words of a NOBLE to tell her sob story 21st time! How the fuck this annoyance stayed alive?!". That's what I can say.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Fujikoma on May 20, 2013, 01:03:07 AM
A mental-disorder-grade drama? Nope. I refuse. It can't happen. In a world like Zalanthas that character wouldn't be able to come to the age of 20.

Has it occurred to you that some of us might have mental disorders?

Or that maybe that assumption might be entirely false?

Or that some of the more serious mental problems really kick in later in life, mid-twenties, thirties, and may evade detection until then, even with modern medicine?
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Fredd on May 20, 2013, 01:06:45 AM
A mental-disorder-grade drama? Nope. I refuse. It can't happen. In a world like Zalanthas that character wouldn't be able to come to the age of 20.

Has it occurred to you that some of us might have mental disorders?

Or that maybe that assumption might be entirely false?

Or that some of the more serious mental problems really kick in later in life, mid-twenties, thirties, and may evade detection until then, even with modern medicine?

Also like 80% of breeds live over 20. So...that does kinda stick it to your thought.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Jingo on May 20, 2013, 01:07:14 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/eezCO.gif)
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Riev on May 20, 2013, 01:15:30 AM
A mental-disorder-grade drama? Nope. I refuse. It can't happen. In a world like Zalanthas that character wouldn't be able to come to the age of 20.

Has it occurred to you that some of us might have mental disorders?

Or that maybe that assumption might be entirely false?

Or that some of the more serious mental problems really kick in later in life, mid-twenties, thirties, and may evade detection until then, even with modern medicine?


No. We are not going to start the discussion on "Well maybe these PCs are being played as people whose severe mental instabilities only manifested at the point in life where a Player took over their personality."

No.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Fujikoma on May 20, 2013, 01:22:56 AM
Although, I must admit, cutting off a noble to tell a sad tale is bad form, and would not be conducive to survival... That's more an example of stupid than crazy. Tired of seeing the two treated as the same thing.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Case on May 20, 2013, 01:23:28 AM
Spin off a new thread for this shit please.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Harmless on May 20, 2013, 01:26:24 AM
oH gdb.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: burble on May 20, 2013, 07:07:02 AM
The most ruthless, coldhearted killers I've seen in the game were female.
Some of the most dedicated, goal oriented pcs I've seen in the game were female.
Murder, corruption, and betrayal done right.  ;D

Did they have it easy in their rise to the top? I don't know.
In the end, they were all pk deaths (no npc deaths, well maybe one stored).
Very good stories if you were lucky enough to know them (I have 5 pcs in mind). As good as the book I just finished reading.  :)

Either I'm lucky or oblivious, not sure which, but I've never seen blatant knights in shining armor or damsels in distress.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Cutthroat on May 20, 2013, 07:41:22 AM
I think there have been many successful female PCs over the years, some more well-known than others. I didn't play them, but I didn't see anything that would suggest they had an easier or harder time than male counterparts.

I think most of the playerbase plays the gender equality angle correctly most of the time. I don't think this thread blows the problem out of proportion, but I do think this is a problem mostly relegated to newer players that haven't fully grasped the documentation yet. I think older players know better, and any visible sexism in their play is always potentially the result of a misconception. Players like to speculate on what other players are doing wrong, but it's usually never possible to know the whole story unless you're a staff member, and I imagine even then it is difficult.

I think the only solution is to examine how we play our PCs and improve whatever doesn't quite fit into the world. If you catch yourself making decisions for the reason "because he is a male" or "because she is a female", stop and think of a better, more character-related reason (e.g. "because she has green hair and that is my PC's fetish", "because she is good at fighting", etc) and if you can't come up with anything, don't make the decision at all.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Iiyola on May 20, 2013, 06:26:00 PM
I'm... I'm sorry but... each time I hear of a guy playing a chick, it reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwC7ph9FD54

I can't help it!
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: gfair on May 21, 2013, 12:29:38 AM
Could it be that this issue comes up because the declaration of gender equality doesn't address the issue of libido? This seems to be the white elephant.  While there is role equality and respect in game, the genders are not pursued romantically on an equal footing.

It seems, rather, that in the matter of flirting and romance we default to our RL norms because no Zalanathan libido has been established.  Once the libido is equalized, men and women would be pursued and treated in equal measure. The problem is that the male libido is so aggressive it will be a challenge to get players to respect that equal ground and not break from it.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: MeTekillot on May 21, 2013, 01:20:22 AM
It's about fucking, basically. The secret is doin it.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Iiyola on May 21, 2013, 02:57:18 AM
I dunno. I see plenty of horny chicks out there in Zalanthas. Perhaps moreso than horny dudes.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: evil_erdlu on May 21, 2013, 03:08:29 AM
I'm... I'm sorry but... each time I hear of a guy playing a chick, it reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwC7ph9FD54

I can't help it!

I dunno. I see plenty of horny chicks out there in Zalanthas. Perhaps moreso than horny dudes.

....

...................................

*ROFL*
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Iiyola on May 21, 2013, 04:32:44 AM
You see what I did there. ;)
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: IAmJacksOpinion on May 21, 2013, 08:08:12 PM
Okay, but we can at least all agree that DWARF female is easy mode, right?

( ^^kidding)

I have no real deep thoughts concerning this, because I've never once played a female PC. I can say I've had male PCs that were chase down by females for whatever reason. One was an ugly ass hunter with claw scars all over his face, and a monster truck stat roll. Another was an elf who was chased, hounded, and raped relentlessly by another female elf in the rinth. And a third was inexplicably dragged into a threesome within an hour of stepping out of the hall of kings.... Yeah.  So, it's not ALWAYS a one sided chase.

I did once, however, play a transvestite whose short time on Zalanthas actually reinforced the joke idea that the "female easy mode" joke was based on. It was very amusing to me, so I thought I would share it here.

Basically, I wrote an mdesc that would largely fit the standard, khol-eyed f-me, never once touched on gender, and described my chest in a way that didn't rule out breasts. (Sorry, but kohl-eyes are the Zalanthan clear stripper heals.) Apped this as a dude with the standard gender in the sdesc, rather than man/woman/male/female. I was playing as some sort of twisted, split personality in the rinth, so the PC didn't last long. The one memorable experience was sitting in a rinthi bar belonging to a certain clan while that clan's PC leader was around. Having had unpleasant experiences with him with a former character, I wasn't expecting much... instead I got a slew of rich emotes, a few mugs of free booze (him emoting walking around the bar and pouring them "on the house" to show that he owned the place) and a protection offer, coins waived.

There could've been other reasons, but.... yeah, some people really go out of their way to enforce this sort of unrealistic stereotype...
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: jigglypuffs on May 21, 2013, 08:51:11 PM
I'm afraid all my experiences with playing females in various online worlds is that it is not necessarily easier, but you'll get a ton of opportunities and stuff thrown at you. I've discussed this with friends and on various message boards and the vastest number of players have the same experience.

I guess you could excuse MMOs in that a large number of players are just teenagers and they've got the whole hormone thing going. I've played two female characters in WoW for quite some time, both ended up being pestered by male characters and received gifts from them without me every giving anyone any hints, with the sole exception of being generally nice to everyone, or flirtatious. A friend of mine playing Dofus somewhat exploited this phenomenon and got a bunch of stuff from a large number of players.

In MUDs, the experiences are little different. I played Achaea (which in hindsight sucked balls) for two years as a male character. After getting a little fed up with the blatant pay2win model, I deleted my char and came back a year later as a female char just to see how the game was progressing. I immaterially got a bunch of free stuff that would have taken me quite some time to acquire without as much as lifting a finger.

In ARM, I once made a Nakki female character with the sdesc "voluptuous". I was immediately showered with offers and, after rejecting them, got hit on by my Bynner Sergeant. I'm not implying that that character somehow had a particularly easy life (I killed her rather quickly), but I doubt that her superiors would be sending this Runner ahead of the main force as a bait for whatever the unit is hunting.

I'm not going to say this is easy mode, just for the sake of avoiding conflicts about semantics, but it's certainly quite different from playing your average male hunter and if you play your cards right, you can get a ton of stuff without doing a thing.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: BuNutzCola on May 22, 2013, 12:01:42 AM
if you play your cards right, you can get a ton of stuff without doing a thing.

True of either gender, in my experience. Given enough time, at least.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Fredd on May 22, 2013, 12:33:04 AM
If females were easy mode, whore would not have such a low rate of survival.

Just saying. That's my 2 cents.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Scarecrow on May 22, 2013, 05:30:51 AM
I once considered apping a female char. An obese, hunched, gap-toothed woman with a missing eye. Then I realised I'd probably still be hit on and this disturbed me.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Fredd on May 22, 2013, 05:41:51 AM
I once considered apping a female char. An obese, hunched, gap-toothed woman with a missing eye. Then I realised I'd probably still be hit on and this disturbed me.

What's wrong with that, honestly? As long as not EVERYONE does it. Low standards people have low standards. Plus, who hasn't woken up with something similar after a bad night at a club and thought " ahhh fuck"
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Vwest on May 22, 2013, 05:46:00 AM
If females were easy mode, whore would not have such a low rate of survival.

That has less to do with gender and more to do with being extremely high risk, period.

You get naked with the wrong person and you are going to die! ... unless you're good enough to execute the unarmed disarm > get weapon > heroic turn around, of course.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Lutagar on May 22, 2013, 11:01:04 AM
I knew a f-me whore who owned a taser,

(•_•) ( •_•)>⌐■-■ (⌐■_■)

man was she stunning!
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: ShaLeah on May 22, 2013, 11:06:41 AM
I once considered apping a female char. An obese, hunched, gap-toothed woman with a missing eye. Then I realised I'd probably still be hit on and this disturbed me.

What's wrong with that, honestly? As long as not EVERYONE does it. Low standards people have low standards. Plus, who hasn't woken up with something similar after a bad night at a club and thought " ahhh fuck"

Everyone knows ugly +fat + deformed = desperate for love and attention = easy lay
Duh!

This is exactly why I've had four husbands!
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: jigglypuffs on May 22, 2013, 12:42:54 PM
if you play your cards right, you can get a ton of stuff without doing a thing.

True of either gender, in my experience. Given enough time, at least.

And more true for one than for the other.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Morrolan on May 22, 2013, 04:36:15 PM
Plus, who hasn't woken up with something similar after a bad night at a club and thought " ahhh fuck"

I haven't.

I have, however, woken up and wondered why I'm engaged to a nutcase.  ;D (Long ago. And I dodged the bullet.)
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Vwest on May 22, 2013, 05:53:58 PM
And more true for one than for the other.

Would you believe that in the last how many years of playing pretty characters across most of the current (and gone) RP muds... I've always got more 'free lootz' from other female characters? And that a vast majority of them had no interest in my characters beyond being friends or making a contact?

Most of the 'gifts' I see being given are practical ones between comrades, rather than 'wow nice cans here's a +5 battleaxe of sexing' and it seems to be more between people of the same gender. It might have something to do with seeing more females hanging out with other females and more males with males, that kind of thing, or it could just be a long string of coincidences.

What I will (grudgingly) concede is there are a lot more female characters who actively pursue charity and hand outs compared to males. I don't see them getting it more from either gender, but they definitely get a lot of it (which is likely more because it's so easy to be rich and generous). That is an entirely different situation and completely in-theme, but could easily be viewed as the battleaxe situation if you aren't involved and lack the proper perspective.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: jigglypuffs on May 22, 2013, 07:16:05 PM
Obviously our experiences differ. I hate looking like someone working off a stereotype, but I really am not. I had absolutely no expectations making those female characters (frankly, I just wanted to play a good-looking character for a change) and then suddenly the admirers and the gifts came pouring in. I'll agree that the sample is hardly large enough to be statistically significant, nor is this a double-blind experiment in any shape or form, but if I had to list the free stuff my characters got from relative strangers, the female ones would be very much on the top of the list. I would go as far as to say that I specifically don't play female characters anymore for that exact reason.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Vwest on May 23, 2013, 08:06:52 AM
Honestly? Give it another shot.

It might simply be you had a string of ridiculousness or I might just have an lucky streak, but letting something like that turn you off concepts (I presume) you enjoyed is pointless. You can just design hooks into your character concept that would make your characters immediately reject hand-outs or aggressive charity.

Aggressive charity. I guess it's a thing?
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: The Silence of the Erdlus on May 23, 2013, 04:37:08 PM
I've just realized my true top reason females are hard mode: I totally missed a great opportunity to be tortured like crazy. I think the combination of being female and being and playing helpless ended up putting out that fire before it began... and I so wanted to burn.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Fredd on May 24, 2013, 03:01:10 PM
I will admit on some of my PC's I give shit out freely to women. Because I'm playing a pretty playboy type. But on others, I don't give anyone shit. It all depends on my PC's, and I suspect it's the same with others.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: AmandaGreathouse on May 24, 2013, 03:03:08 PM
My pcs generally give shit to pcs that they like or have some vested interest in.

Whether they're male or female doesn't really matter with regards to whether they're likely to receive it.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: AdamBlue on May 25, 2013, 04:32:31 AM
In my experience, everyone expects the person they love to kill them the second their defenses are down.
Such is life in Zalanthas.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Lutagar on May 25, 2013, 06:19:31 PM
I've never really understood why people seem to think being likely to get hit on as a female character is sexist or unthemeatic.  If you really want to make it less of a double standard, you could make a female that relentlessly flirts and hits on males rather than hope that other players will make less heterosexual males with a fierce libido.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: jigglypuffs on May 26, 2013, 05:55:04 PM
Honestly? Give it another shot.

It might simply be you had a string of ridiculousness or I might just have an lucky streak, but letting something like that turn you off concepts (I presume) you enjoyed is pointless. You can just design hooks into your character concept that would make your characters immediately reject hand-outs or aggressive charity.

Aggressive charity. I guess it's a thing?

It's quite all right. I've got a plethora of male concepts already, some even involving akimbo uzis.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: hyzhenhok on May 26, 2013, 09:58:11 PM
Honestly? Give it another shot.

It might simply be you had a string of ridiculousness or I might just have an lucky streak, but letting something like that turn you off concepts (I presume) you enjoyed is pointless. You can just design hooks into your character concept that would make your characters immediately reject hand-outs or aggressive charity.

Aggressive charity. I guess it's a thing?

It's quite all right. I've got a plethora of male concepts already, some even involving akimbo uzis.

? Unless it's a dwarf with a reproductive focus, surely gender is largely irrelevant for most of your concepts.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Wastrel on May 29, 2013, 06:56:37 PM
Okay, but we can at least all agree that DWARF female is easy mode, right?

Sorry for the derail, but I keep picking up on things like this.

Are dwarves considered "overpowered" or something?
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Delirium on May 29, 2013, 06:58:51 PM
It's actually more of an ongoing GDB joke than any reflection on IG reality.

However, it is true that dwarven female PCs tend to be rare enough that they usually get a lot of (often unwanted) attention from male dwarven PCs, whether or not that should really be the case (considering females aren't particularly rare in the virtual world, as compared to males).
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: KankWhisperer on May 29, 2013, 07:18:27 PM
Has anyone ever seen a gay or bisexual male dwarf?
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Kismetic on May 29, 2013, 07:19:59 PM
Has anyone ever seen a gay or bisexual male dwarf?

I want to say yes, but I never asked him.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Marauder Moe on May 29, 2013, 07:24:12 PM
Okay, but we can at least all agree that DWARF female is easy mode, right?

Sorry for the derail, but I keep picking up on things like this.

Are dwarves considered "overpowered" or something?
Dwarves have stat bonuses that make them good warriors.  Also, compared to elves and half-elves, racist sentiment against them is much less severe.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Fredd on May 29, 2013, 08:16:51 PM
Has anyone ever seen a gay or bisexual male dwarf?

I want to say yes, but I never asked him.

Yes. As a stealthy, I saw one have sex with a human male pc once. And the human was catching.

Things seen, cannot be unseen *shiver*
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Wastrel on May 29, 2013, 08:35:21 PM
Has anyone ever seen a gay or bisexual male dwarf?

I want to say yes, but I never asked him.

Yes. As a stealthy, I saw one have sex with a human male pc once. And the human was catching.

Things seen, cannot be unseen *shiver*

And yet you stuck around to watch :o
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: RogueGunslinger on May 29, 2013, 08:41:32 PM
Sometime you just get stuck man...  :P



someone says, in OOC: "No consent...nonononononoono."

Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Wastrel on May 29, 2013, 08:43:06 PM
edited myself out ~_~
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Narf on May 29, 2013, 08:47:01 PM
Has anyone ever seen a gay or bisexual male dwarf?

There was a fairly successful gay dwarven male a few years ago I recall.

I don't usually ask them though.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Fredd on May 29, 2013, 08:57:38 PM
Sometime you just get stuck man...  :P



someone says, in OOC: "No consent...nonononononoono."




Yeah, and stealthies are auto consent. After a moment, I went and smoked a cig...then another....then another....Then smoked a bowl because it was taking forever.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: i can haz mantis on May 29, 2013, 10:27:14 PM
Has anyone ever seen a gay or bisexual male dwarf?

Yes. 07-08 era.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Vwest on May 30, 2013, 01:41:18 AM
Dwarves have stat bonuses that make them good warriors.  Also, compared to elves and half-elves, racist sentiment against them is much less severe non-existant.

Never seen a dwarf face discrimination in game.

Nor half-giants, for that matter.

Ever.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Fredd on May 30, 2013, 01:44:12 AM
Dwarves have stat bonuses that make them good warriors.  Also, compared to elves and half-elves, racist sentiment against them is much less severe non-existant.

Never seen a dwarf face discrimination in game.

Nor half-giants, for that matter.

Ever.

I am regularly racist about dwarves on my humies....Just not to there face.

But there are clans that don't accept them, that's discrimination.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Quell on May 30, 2013, 02:05:41 AM
Dwarves have stat bonuses that make them good warriors.  Also, compared to elves and half-elves, racist sentiment against them is much less severe non-existant.

Never seen a dwarf face discrimination in game.

Nor half-giants, for that matter.

Ever.

Discrimination against half-giants is different than discrimination against the other races.

To a lesser extent this is true of dwarves too.

You've probably seen it a great deal, but just didn't recognize it.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: lordcooper on May 30, 2013, 02:53:24 AM
Natural selection took care of those who enjoyed offending what is essentially a pile of walking muscle with a big weapon attached.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Fredd on May 30, 2013, 06:03:40 AM
Natural selection took care of those who enjoyed offending what is essentially a pile of walking muscle with a big weapon attached.

Again, I can name 2 combat clans that actively say "no you can't join, and yes it's because you are a dwarf" And that's without any thought.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: AreteX on May 30, 2013, 07:43:26 AM
Natural selection took care of those who enjoyed offending what is essentially a pile of walking muscle with a big weapon attached.

Hey, you quoted me!  I'm not sure if I've ever been in someone's sig before.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Morrolan on May 31, 2013, 07:13:13 PM
Natural selection took care of those who enjoyed offending what is essentially a pile of walking muscle with a big weapon attached.

Again, I can name 2 combat clans that actively say "no you can't join, and yes it's because you are a dwarf can't capitalize or punctuate".

 ;D

Though, on topic, there is discrimination and racism against every nonhuman group by the humans. It's there if you know where to look, or how to look.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: DustMight on June 17, 2013, 09:39:10 PM
Actually, in thinking about playing female characters I don't find them ez-mode mostly because I have to be so damn skillful in fending off would be suitors or romantic partners without making an enemy is damn difficult.
Title: Re: Playing females as EZ Mode
Post by: Iiyola on June 19, 2013, 05:31:41 PM
Has anyone ever seen a gay or bisexual male dwarf?

I want to say yes, but I never asked him.

Yes. As a stealthy, I saw one have sex with a human male pc once. And the human was catching.

Things seen, cannot be unseen *shiver*
Ouch >.<