Current Events Feed

[Feco]

The Problem

A common complaint I've been seeing goes along the lines of "nothing is happening in game except in back rooms."

I don't think this is particularly true, but it doesn't particularly matter if it is or isn't, because people keep saying it.  I wonder if it's driving some of the lower-than-average player numbers we've seen.

I think we need a PR boost -- something that draws in new players, and reaches out to people who played, but aren't currently.  Something that shows this isn't the case.

How Information about the Gameworld is Shared

The ingame bulletin boards are a mostly OOC way to get information to people -- information about very public goings on that characters might learn about.  There is an IC component here, though -- you need to be in the general area of the stuff going on to find out about it.  They're very granular "current events."  They're a mix of really small to really big things.

In contrast is the Chronology page -- what goes here are the big, massive, world-changing things.  Some of these things most PCs would never know, some are things many might.  In any case, they're the REALLY big things.

Current Events Feed

I'm thinking of something inbetween -- a current events feed on the main webpage.  These would consist of /very/ short announcements about things that are going on in-game.  These would have to be moderately big things, and things that aren't spoilery -- things that the curators of the feed have determined are reasonably well known, or at least should be.

One example would be RPTs.  Let's say Kurac has an outing where they slaughter a bunch of Gith, or there's a skirmish between some tribes.

We might also work in something about public-facing player-created-clans reaching a certain level (e.g., A group of hunters known as the "asdf" are gaining prominence in Allanak.").  I think this would be a cool way to show that the player-created clan system is working.

We might extend them to more mundane things, if they have exceptional content.  Maybe a noble puts a bounty on someone -- but the bounty is /absurdly/ large.  So large everyone with a sword would be talking about it.

I think there's a lot of life in game, and I think it's there for the finding.  But I think it's fair to say it takes some amount of investment to find it.  This would provide a means for people to see some of it.

I took a two year break from Arm.  If we had a feed, and I saw some cool shit on it, I have no doubt I would have been tempted back.  I didn't leave for some reason, I was just doing other things.  I'd like to think there are a lot of "ex" players like that, who we could get back in on the fun.

The other bonus, I think, is that players fucking love to share stories and information.  This might actually promote people doing things.  People love to see their shit in the public eye.  I know my heart is aflutter when I hear about a PC of mine mentioned in any public capacity.

Potential Pitfalls

1) Staff effort.  This will require extra staff effort.  That said, I would hope people who are doing the sort of big things we're talking about are putting them in character reports.  I'd also like to think staff keep track of them in some way.  If that's the case, maybe it wouldn't take as much effort as my gut tells me it might.

2) Potentially spoiling things.  In particular, this applies to PCs who don't frequent civilization.  Right now, they can't hear a lot of the rumors on the OOC boards, and that makes IC sense.  That said, I think we can generally trust our players not to have this info affect their in-game decisions.  This isn't a potential issue to just brush off, though.


So yeah.  That's my idea.  Would love to hear thoughts.

[BadSkeelz]

I think it's a good idea. I'm definitely one of those players whose desire to play the game is proportionate to how much "cool stuff" I think is going on. I often don't log in for weeks at a time because I don't feel like I'm missing anything, even though I academically, vaguely, know there are things going on. I'm just not willing to gamble the hour or so it takes to find someone to find something when I could play another game.

This feed would of course need to be run by staff, and it would need some clear guidelines for submissions. It's frustrating when I see events get reported on the tavern boards only for them to get removed after a couple of days (though the chances of people just forgetting to >Save board are very high). We don't want the rules to be so strict that very little actually gets in to the feed, which would just further the impression that nothing is going on in game. If players know what's permissible, and that a shoutout only needs to be a sentence or two, I hope they'll submit.

[Molten Heart]

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[Akaramu]

I like the idea, and would like to see it expanded with little tidbits of information about roleplaying and employment opportunities to be found in the various corners of the world.

For instance:

Player clan XY (hunters, grebbers) is recruiting anyone without gem or criminal record. Find recruiter Amos to find out more.
Player clan YZ (rinthers) is recruiting rinthi elves. Find recruiter Sneakyshadow to find out more.

House Oash is currently accepting gemmed and an aide. Find lady Silkycheeks to find out more.
House Salarr is looking for mastercrafters. Find senior merchant Malik to find out more.

Everyone in Red Storm is talking about Fancypants, a strangely well-dressed man who is rumored to offer employment opportunities to fearless adventurers.

Sure, there's usually rumor board posts about this kind of stuff but not always, the posts are all over the place and tend to disappear, and if you're starting in a place without rumor board (I'm looking at you, elementalist quarter) it becomes so much harder to find out where the fun is. Besides, it would also be nice to know about roleplaying and employment opportunities in, like, Luir's before you decide to roll a character there.

[Nergal]

Just wanted to say that I've put this idea under staff discussion, and the following is my personal opinion.

My initial thought is that I like the general idea, though I think it can be implemented in a lot of ways - such as a staff announcement thread, for example. The way I see it working is that staff would report, essentially, what vNPCs would know, based on monitoring PCs and reading player reports, rather than taking explicit submissions. As an aside:

It's frustrating when I see events get reported on the tavern boards only for them to get removed after a couple of days (though the chances of people just forgetting to >Save board are very high).

99% of the time a board post disappears, it's because the player didn't "write board" after to save the board post. The remaining 1%, we alert the player as to why the board post was deleted by staff. Of course, 99% of the time a board post disappears, players think staff did it.

Staff used to put current events on rumor boards. I haven't played in a month or so. Is this still happening?

Yes, when there are current events worthy of a tavern board post.

Besides, it would also be nice to know about roleplaying and employment opportunities in, like, Luir's before you decide to roll a character there.

I see this as being the primary upside of this idea, personally.

[ghanima]

The Problem

A common complaint I've been seeing goes along the lines of "nothing is happening in game except in back rooms."

I don't think this is particularly true, but it doesn't particularly matter if it is or isn't, because people keep saying it.

Agreed. I think this is the first and main part of the problem. I used to be guilty of it too but can confirm that stuff is actually happening. And not just in back rooms either. But there are steps that could be taken to further illustrate just what the heck is going on in this supposedly silent game world.

I've always wondered why the chronology page got forgotten. It's a perfect tool to indicate what happened a helluva long time ago and could serve to encourage the more industrious players who wish to strive to carve their name in the annals of history. An occasional crisis that hits the centers of civilization (water shortages, famine, race wars, etc) that get mentioned on rumor boards can fuel tavern conversation and make the game world feel more alive as well. And implementing constant small changes also makes the world feel like a living organism that defies claims of game stagnation, from burning down an occasional building to rebuilding a new one (I'm not talking major MUD building projects but rather an update to a single room or permanent game object, like a statue, here and there).

I like Feco's proposal. And I like that staff has announced their willingness to discuss it. Here's to the future!

[Lizzie]

I like the general idea, to have "known" current events information replicated on the GDB. I also like the idea of the staff posting it.

I have some concerns though, some "what if" situations that I feel are common enough that they might be a concern to others.

What if...there's plots happening, and the staff posts a post about it. Things get worked on in game. Then, the staff responsible for that particular plot has to go away for a few days and the plots change during his absence. The updated post won't get posted. And players who are new to the game/area/plot will think nothing's new. And they'll react accordingly. Then when they find out otherwise - staff gets blamed for not "doing their job." Things get ugly, and feelings get hurt. The griefers have a new shiny toy to play with.

What if...there's plots happening, and the staff feels it's not "known" enough that it belongs on a public forum? And what if - some of the players, having found out about the plot, feel otherwise? Staff will get blamed for not "doing their job." Things get ugly, feelings get hurt. Griefers have a shiny new toy to play with.

How do we know what "should" be known to the playerbase as a whole, vs. what should only be discovered ICly? Hypothetical:

There's a powerful new Thrall, and he has three powerful minions; two psi-sorcs and one special app full-guild Whiran/master jeweler. They've been slowly gaining power, but aren't well known yet. However, they are known to House Delann, for whom they have been stirring their massive deadly pot of shit. Delann has two employees, plus they have a cache of Bynners in Sergeant Doohickey's unit, and Delann has one templar solidly planted in their pockets.

Sure, it's possible that these people will tell a friend, who tell a friend, and so on and so forth until the entire Known knows about the Thrall. But is it something you'd want to know about on the forum? Or would you prefer to find out in-game? Remember that once you read a post, you can't unread it.

So these are my concerns. I still like the idea, I'm still for it. But I'd like to see these concerns (and similar) addressed before any implementation.

[Feco]

The way I see it working is that staff would report, essentially, what vNPCs would know, based on monitoring PCs and reading player reports, rather than taking explicit submissions.

This is how I imagined it!  I'm not certain player submissions are a good idea -- sounds like a paperwork nightmare, and an easy way to hurt feelings.

I could see players contributing insofar as staff asks them "Hey, we're gonna add x to the Current Events Feed!  Would you like to write two sentences?  We may edit them."

What if...there's plots happening, and the staff posts a post about it. Things get worked on in game. Then, the staff responsible for that particular plot has to go away for a few days and the plots change during his absence. The updated post won't get posted. And players who are new to the game/area/plot will think nothing's new. And they'll react accordingly. Then when they find out otherwise - staff gets blamed for not "doing their job." Things get ugly, and feelings get hurt. The griefers have a new shiny toy to play with.

This isn't too much different from the current bulletin boards, I think.  If someone informs their actions by some outdated bulletin board posts, that just means they aren't in the know, and people respond accordingly.  (e.g., "Oh, no Amos... someone collected that bounty.  You're too late!")

Furthermore, I'm not certain this has to be a day-to-day sort of update about every public plot going on.  Rather, as Nergal put it, this would be big things vNPCs might realistically know about, but not things so big that they warrant being put on the Chronology page.

What if...there's plots happening, and the staff feels it's not "known" enough that it belongs on a public forum? And what if - some of the players, having found out about the plot, feel otherwise? Staff will get blamed for not "doing their job." Things get ugly, feelings get hurt. Griefers have a shiny new toy to play with.

This is just something we need to defer to staff as DMs.  Staff already determine whether or not you're drawing attention (particularly from vNPCs).  I don't see how this would be an issue unless a player is being a crybaby.  If they're being a crybaby about this, they're probably already being it about something else.

There's a powerful new Thrall, and he has three powerful minions; two psi-sorcs and one special app full-guild Whiran/master jeweler. They've been slowly gaining power, but aren't well known yet. However, they are known to House Delann, for whom they have been stirring their massive deadly pot of shit. Delann has two employees, plus they have a cache of Bynners in Sergeant Doohickey's unit, and Delann has one templar solidly planted in their pockets.

This is a problem we already face with the IC boards and the Chronology page.  I think we can trust players to act responsibly.  This particular instance is easy -- you said yourself they aren't that well known, so there wouldn't be a post regarding them.

If they were well known, this becomes very similar to the previous hypothetical.  Staff are already taking into consideration whether or not the world at large notices someone's actions -- we just defer to them as the DMs.  I don't picture these being very specific, which also helps:  "Rumors spread that a gang of magickers are terrorizing the waste around House Delann's holdings."  That's it.  Boom.  Move on.

The other thing to consider is that many of these actions will relate to player-created clans.  If there's a rule "Getting to X level in the player-created clan process, with a publicly facing clan, warrants an update on the Current Events Feed," that reduces the chance of hurt feelings.  That's not to say staff couldn't put someone on the feed about a non-clanned group, or a group that hasn't reached X level, it's just that it would give people some level of expectation.

I definitely don't want to underestimate how easily some people can have their feelings hurt by not getting to be all public with their story, but I just can't imagine this being a massive problem.  Especially when we're talking about a vague sentence or two akin to the sorts of rumors people generally put on IC boards.

I'm also more keen on this being on the main webpage somehow, and not just the GDB.  This way new players spot it easier.

[Molten Heart]

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[Feco]

I think the risk of virtualizing information trading is a real one.  I think this system would only be a good one if we could minimize that.

[ghanima]

clan boards are great external tools that allow players to overcome time constraints rather than having to meet up in the game but they remove a lot of things from the game making them virtual. This aspect of the game is bad.

I don't think they're bad at all. Your character spends more of their life offline (and virtual) then they do actively participating in the game when you are online. It's only natural that you would receive gossip and tidbits of information through virtual outlets like a clan forum. I think there is a tendency for players to be so hellbent on withholding information and keeping every little detail IC and secret that it results in things like:

A common complaint I've been seeing goes along the lines of "nothing is happening in game except in back rooms."

I don't think this is particularly true, but it doesn't particularly matter if it is or isn't, because people keep saying it.

I want secrets kept secret but my immersion isn't broken just because I learned of an incident through a clan forum or player announcement. The biggest problem with this game I have is the lack of communication. There are so many things that are never communicated and it stifles productivity and plot progression more than it preserves some sort of IC integrity.

[Akaramu]

I'm 100% with Ghanima on that one.

Besides, downtime spent idling so you can MAYBE find that one person you need to advance a plot isn't fun. I'd much rather know when to log in instead of spending my whole afternoon idling, and then having to log out when something interesting happens. Secrecy is good. Idle downtime is bad. Directing people to where the fun is (without spoiling secrets) helps the game and doesn't hurt anyone.

5 hour idle sessions just so I can maybe, or not, talk to that one person is one of my Armageddon pet peeves. I say yes to clan forums and (vague) OOC information.

[Akaramu]

I'd like to add that when even the vaguest, most general plot information is hidden from most of the playerbase, players who talk about the game OOC (and let's face it, those players exist) will gain an even bigger advantage over whose who don't.

[Molten Heart]

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[ghanima]

One drawback clan boards suffer from is all of the information on them can't be accessed by outsiders. Even if they are invisible walking around inside someone's clan compound, information on things happening there virtually (like discussion of caravan schedules, special orders, general gossip), for the most part, will be out of reach. While all this information is readily available to anyone with clan board access, someone in the game who's stalked out an estate would have little indication about this stuff unless it were represented in the game somehow. This is another example of the downside of virtualization.

I agree in one sense. I remember the days when clan information was done through an IC rumor board in your clan compound. It definitely felt more real, more alive, because it was coded into the game rather than a separate aspect of it on a website.

However, those boards suck. The formatting is a nightmare, you have a maximum character number and once there are 50 posts you have to wait for a staff member to remove a few of them. If the technology of the MUD code were as up to date as today's web browsers, I'd be all for it. But since it's not (not by a long shot) I'd just as soon say oh well and deal with the downside to having it virtualized the way it is now. Why? Because information and communication is everything and I'd rather not see that be hindered any more than it already is.

If I were playing some sort of mindbender or criminal who might arguably have access to the information inside a clan compound, I'd just write in a request. I played a noble in the past and sent a request asking if a certain piece of information could be found virtually in the clan library. Staff were very helpful and handed out some revealing information to me. Maybe your character has a way to get into the estate and would know some of the things going on but would they know everything? As far as I'm concerned, the system we have now is kind of alright (though I love the OP's proposal and hope something like this gets implemented).

[The Lonely Hunter]

I like Nergal's idea. Having staff get together on a regular basis and contribute some tidbit to be posted would be neat. Perhaps even put into a weekly/bi-weekly newsletter and sent out - it may pull people back in who have drifted away.

[HavokBlue]

I don't like this. I think it artificially shrinks the world. It's interesting as a player to walk into the bar in another part of the world and hear about new gossip. It's interesting to play a desert elf with no knowledge of what is happening in a city. The organic transfer of knowledge (I'm not going to bother accounting for people who spread it OOC) is interesting and relatively unique to this game.

[Feco]

I don't like this. I think it artificially shrinks the world. It's interesting as a player to walk into the bar in another part of the world and hear about new gossip. It's interesting to play a desert elf with no knowledge of what is happening in a city. The organic transfer of knowledge (I'm not going to bother accounting for people who spread it OOC) is interesting and relatively unique to this game.

I think that's a fair point.

I don't think every rumor should be public.  In my imagined system, we would only share information that is well known enough that it falls somewhere between "simple rumor board rumors," and "chronology page worthy."

Exactly where the threshold is would be tough to find, but I think we could do I.  I think obvious examples would be announcements regarding player created clans reaching a certain threshold, or tribal clashes virtual traders might tell stories of.

We still lose some organic information transfer in game, but I think at this level it's a fair trade off.

[The Lonely Hunter]

I don't like this. I think it artificially shrinks the world. It's interesting as a player to walk into the bar in another part of the world and hear about new gossip. It's interesting to play a desert elf with no knowledge of what is happening in a city. The organic transfer of knowledge (I'm not going to bother accounting for people who spread it OOC) is interesting and relatively unique to this game.

You can always separate what your character knows and what you know...

[Molten Heart]

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[Jihelu]

I'm not against anyone liking this idea, I just don't like it. Feels kinda...weird.
"Come on down to Morin's to do X event", makes this feel less like a roleplaying game and more like...I don't know.

I feel the same away about HRPT's, sometimes, but those I can tolerate.

I'd rather staff or players just travel and add things to the current tavern boards as they tend to do.

[Feco]

I can understand that feeling, but I think it would be mitigated by using appropriate language -- language that's framed like the Chronology page.

[Riev]

I apparently have this mysterious ability to still act in character despite knowing things OOCly about certain events. I think ONE TIME in my history, I used the "My dad told me about that" and staff disagreed with it, so I stopped.

While I agree that telling people where interesting events are occurring could have the effect of more people showing up, I have a hard time understanding how that's a bad thing.

To Jihelu's feelings, I guess I consider this game LIKE a sitdown Pen and Paper game. I play when I can, and I try to be consistent. But if someone tells me that Curse of Strahd is going to be run for the next three Wednesdays, I'm going to try and show up to it.

I guess I just... maybe I'm not as good a roleplayer as some people and I don't "get into it" as much. I just don't see the issue of increasing communication other than "some people say it breaks their ability to immerse themselves in this medium"

[nauta]

I can see the arguments in both directions, but for me the pros outweigh the cons, the pro being that a newsletter-esque Zalanthan-wide rumor board would encourage and facilitate more plots and generate more 'buzz' for those outside the game, primarily.  The two cons that I've seen are:

1) It makes the world seem smaller.

2) It would give remote PCs information they would not otherwise have.

To (1), I'd say that 'making the world smaller' can mean two things: physically smaller, which it won't, and plot-wise smaller, which is a good thing: more of our plots would mingle with each other.  But I can see the concern.

To (2) I have a better answer: Zalanthas is the size of Ohio whose denizens have telepathic abilities.  It'd totally make sense that rumors would reach remote corners as quickly as I can learn about that smoking kid from Indonesia via the internet.

[Jihelu]

It's not that I don't want people knowing anything, which no one implied but I my self just did, I'd just rather someone way their buddy down south.
Or if something truly interesting going on is happening, staff recognizes that maybe it would be heard about down south, and like many other things, posts on the boards for it.
With Tuluk rip I feel like having the world 'plot smaller' isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Overall....if this did happen, I wouldn't mind it. I don't prefer it, but I wouldn't mind it.