Following into falls or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Sinkhole

[MeTekillot]

I'm starting up this thread as a discussion topic for a certain pervasive problem where you'll follow your leader into what is probably certain death like you're a brain-dead lemming, and likely subsequently die/be horribly injured through no fault of your own besides incidentally poor clan choice. I'd suggest a mod move the posts from the other thread into here, but aren't they spread out over multiple pages and a pain in the butt to do? Whatever.

Anyway, I suggest code like the merchant's gate that is added to climbing and falling code. If following someplace would put you over a fall, you stop and think about it. If following someplace would make you climb, you stop and think about it.

[hyzhenhok]

Just make it default behavior for followers to automatically unhitch when the person they're following makes a climb check/enters a climb room. After all, you see them make the climb check before they enter that room. Then add nosave follow: "Your character will follow someone into a room with a climb check automatically."

[BadSkeelz]

Desired Solution: Make it so you cannot follow people into climb/fall rooms.

I have no idea what kind of code that would need and don't want to presume what it'd look like or how easy it'd be to implement.




This seems like a good place to ask: anyone have a MUSCHClient trigger to automatically unhitch yourself if you see someone in the room fail a fall check?

[MeTekillot]

Following someone is instantaneous. Triggers wouldn't help except to unhitch in the room before they move.

[Gaare]

One may argue that no one would ride or walk to some location in which there is a certain fall. Not just the followers I mean. If there would be some code(This was implemented in game by the way), I think it should be something like; When you type north to a fall, system should respond like: "If you want to go north, type -Walk North-."

By the way, I like this kind of game twiks. Our PCs travel miles and miles of empty desert in minutes.  A few coded dangers, even though they are somewhat unrealistic, make those travels more dangerous and a bit realistic. I like the idea of sink holes, sudden falls, hidden NPC warbands attacking, etc. There can be situations you can only save yourself with sacrificing your mount, etc.

[Marauder Moe]

Why just following?

Code Select Expand

>north

You will fall if you go that way.  Are you sure?

>north

You walk north...
[SD] Over the edge of a cliff
  This is the air above a steep fall, just over the edge of a rocky cliff.  You're an idiot for going here.

You lose your grip and fall...
And, like the merchant's gate, every follower has to be individually explicit about it.

Or if the code isn't quite up to a prompt/response like that, make it like every fall room is "guarded" and you can never walk into one under normal circumstances.  You have to run to bypass it.

(Abnormal circumstances that should possibly still have a chance at falling: poor riding skill, poor piloting skill, fleeing, sandstorm, carru'ed)

[Synthesis]

I kind of question the realism of having all these dumbass fall and climb rooms, in the first place.

I usually play classes with the climb skill, and I know it feels cool to be the guy who can climb and get to the neat stuff that nobody else in the party can, but coooome oooooooon.  It's all a bit ridiculous.

[Narf]

For an easy, non-code intensive option you can change all obvious fall rooms to just have an unusual direction coded to them. Like "Down" for instance. So instead of going "North" and falling off the edge, you have to type "Down."

This won't stop fleeing off a cliff on accident, or stumbling off during a sandstorm, but so what? There's no reason why those wouldn't be legitimate dangers.

It also requires no work on the coder's part. Just need a Builder to go in and change the directions.

[nauta]

For an easy, non-code intensive option you can change all obvious fall rooms to just have an unusual direction coded to them. Like "Down" for instance. So instead of going "North" and falling off the edge, you have to type "Down."

This won't stop fleeing off a cliff on accident, or stumbling off during a sandstorm, but so what? There's no reason why those wouldn't be legitimate dangers.

It also requires no work on the coder's part. Just need a Builder to go in and change the directions.

Brilliant.

[Marauder Moe]

For an easy, non-code intensive option you can change all obvious fall rooms to just have an unusual direction coded to them. Like "Down" for instance. So instead of going "North" and falling off the edge, you have to type "Down."

This won't stop fleeing off a cliff on accident, or stumbling off during a sandstorm, but so what? There's no reason why those wouldn't be legitimate dangers.

It also requires no work on the coder's part. Just need a Builder to go in and change the directions.

Brilliant.

+1, good idea.

[In Dreams]

I kind of question the realism of having all these dumbass fall and climb rooms, in the first place.

I usually play classes with the climb skill, and I know it feels cool to be the guy who can climb and get to the neat stuff that nobody else in the party can, but coooome oooooooon.  It's all a bit ridiculous.

I understand them in the sense that the landscape might just be hard to see ahead in a particularly perilous part of the world, or the hole might be hidden, or whatever, but when it's basically described to be "A MASSIVE HUGE GIGANTIC TEAR IN THE EARTH OVER A STEEP VERTICAL CLIFF!!" there's just no way anyone would just... ride right over the edge. Even less so if they saw someone go straight in ahead of them.

There has to be some kind of improvement available that makes sense. The above suggestions all seem very good.

[Case]

North vs North !

That's what SoI did.

[BadSkeelz]

North vs North !

That's what SoI did.

Care to elaborate? Did you have to put a space at the end of the direction when heading in to a fall/climb room?

[Molten Heart]

For an easy, non-code intensive option you can change all obvious fall rooms to just have an unusual direction coded to them. Like "Down" for instance. So instead of going "North" and falling off the edge, you have to type "Down."

This won't stop fleeing off a cliff on accident, or stumbling off during a sandstorm, but so what? There's no reason why those wouldn't be legitimate dangers.

It also requires no work on the coder's part. Just need a Builder to go in and change the directions.

Brilliant.

+1, good idea.

Some falls/cliffs already have something similar to this. If you go north to go over the edge is says something like "Are you crazy? You might fall if you go that way. If you really want to go there, go in the direction again."

[Harmless]

or n vs north for all climb rooms that are enterable that way, like if you try to type sle it'll say "you need to type 'sleep' to sleep."

Making all climb rooms require a full word would do wonders; d vs down, u vs up. If it could be toggled as a nosave option that'd be good too.

Or yeah, n vs n!. A lot of the suggestions in this thread so far are good.

[Case]

North vs North !

That's what SoI did.

Care to elaborate? Did you have to put a space at the end of the direction when heading in to a fall/climb room?

Had to have ! to attempt a voluntary fall.

[Armaddict]

I agree with the follow code point.  Make only one person go over climb checks at a time.

I do not agree with putting a safeguard in for climb checks altogether.  You -should- be wary around drops. You -should- watch carefully, rather than have a safety measure just so that you have to pay less attention.

[Molten Heart]

Usually a regular horse (one that isn't specially trained to do so) won't go over a cliff. Horses don't want to fall. I wonder if mounts in Zalanthas should be as intelligent.

[Synthesis]

Usually a regular horse (one that isn't specially trained to do so) won't go over a cliff. Horses don't want to fall. I wonder if mounts in Zalanthas should be as intelligent.

The beetles know they have vastly more HP than you.

[Molten Heart]

Usually a regular horse (one that isn't specially trained to do so) won't go over a cliff. Horses don't want to fall. I wonder if mounts in Zalanthas should be as intelligent.

The beetles know they have vastly more HP than you.

Beetles are so smart.

[Flying Erdlu]

I like the fact that the code does not hold our hand and prevent us from falling down these holes. This is Armageddon! I think the warning room echo goes far enough to prevent it.

This a RPI mud with hard coded actions that require a bit of RP creative license to decide what is really going on. In the sink hole example, it is a crumbling bit of rock that isn't stable at all. Don't view following the leader down a hole like lemmings jumping over the edge without thought. Instead think of it as if you followed a leader who got close too the edge of an unstable cliff that gave way and you all slipped over the edge with the collapse.

Moral of the story: Don't want to fall down holes, don't follow leaders who will take you that close to unstable ground.

[Synthesis]

I like the fact that the code does not hold our hand and prevent us from falling down these holes. This is Armageddon! I think the warning room echo goes far enough to prevent it.

This a RPI mud with hard coded actions that require a bit of RP creative license to decide what is really going on. In the sink hole example, it is a crumbling bit of rock that isn't stable at all. Don't view following the leader down a hole like lemmings jumping over the edge without thought. Instead think of it as if you followed a leader who got close too the edge of an unstable cliff that gave way and you all slipped over the edge with the collapse.

Moral of the story: Don't want to fall down holes, don't follow leaders who will take you that close to unstable ground.

Sinkholes aren't the only climb rooms in the known world, you know.

[Narf]

Moral of the story: Don't want to fall down holes, don't follow leaders who will take you that close to unstable ground.

That's not a good moral to be teaching, since it basically says "don't join any clan where you might theoretically be put under someone who will walk into a hole."

[aeglaeca]

My code suggestion is that if you're following someone over a cliff you get a massive +climb bonus based on your wisdom score. I only have a tenuous grasp on coding but I don't think that would be /too/ hard to put in?

[Flying Erdlu]

Moral of the story: Don't want to fall down holes, don't follow leaders who will take you that close to unstable ground.

That's not a good moral to be teaching, since it basically says "don't join any clan where you might theoretically be put under someone who will walk into a hole."

Actually, yes this is exactly what I'm saying. If you are in a clan that likely will take you near crumbling, unstable rock, you are in a very dangerous situation. And in that case, then you are right, don't join that clan if you have concerns about being put such dangerous situations.

But my stance is predicated on not looking at this as a "Lemmings incident" but rather a broader ICly explained roleplay of something such as what I described. E.g. the cliff edge crumbled away, causing a massive collapse.