Modular Housing

[Eyeball]

Logic is absent from this game and the discussion around it. You would buy housing because it is cheap, but the cities restrict ownership - and so on. It's just to much work than it's really worth. Our energies could be placed better than on letting people have another room to hoard gortok skulls and murder aides in or something.

No, it wouldn't be cheap. The price for a two room house could be something like 50 large and the waiting period would filter out those who die quickly.

Too much work? I'm not asking you to do it personally. I'm saying I'll volunteer, and so would others, I'm sure. Right now my energies are only going into playing the game, so nothing lost.

I don't understand your point about gortok skulls. The hoarding of them is going to happen regardless. The point here is that providing houses is going to increase the players' enjoyment of the game. If they buy them, they must want them, right? More places for thieves to hit up, too. Variety. A sense of having accomplished something. Plenty of reasons in favor.

[Eyeball]

Yep, this I agree with, mud building is hard work, overseeing PC leaders is too, and the shit PCs do in their apartments not worth any additional staff oversight.

I understand you people have the impression that writing a few room descriptions and linking them is akin to moving a mountain, but it really isn't. I've done it. Here. In this game. It wasn't hard. Really.

There would be no PC leader, there would be a staff-run avatar PC that handles it.

I'm talking about creating a new dedicated staff position, not taxing any of the existing staff or affecting their hierarchy of responsibilities at all.

If you and a few other people aren't enthused about the idea of owning a house somewhat of your own design, in game, it's still no skin off your nose. Leave it to others.

[Reiloth]

The point isn't how easy it is to make a house. It's the purpose behind having a house.

This isn't the Sims. It's Zalanthas. 50k isn't something impossible to attain by being an indie hunter in Tuluk. Money shouldn't be a bar to hold anything against.

What service to the game does having little houses for people to play Sims in do?

And why should Staff create a 'Housing Director' position for these Sims Houses?

Just because something was done before in Armageddon doesn't mean it was a good idea, or good infrastructure. There have been plenty of mistakes made by Staff in the past with the direction of the game.

Mantis and halflings also used to sit at bars and gab it up with fire clerics and shadow clerics. The game is different from a year ago, five years ago, ten years ago. Nostalgia for the past is a waste of time.

[Eyeball]

Actually, about the first thing people were saying was it would be too much work for an overburdened staff. So no.

Sorry, Reiloth, but you're just flying off into total abstraction. The Sims? Really? There are already houses littered about and descriptions talking about commoners' crappy dwellings. This is would just be instantiating a few that are already there.

Why shouldn't they appoint someone is a better question.

[Reiloth]

Actually, about the first thing people were saying was it would be too much work for an overburdened staff. So no.

Sorry, Reiloth, but you're just flying off into total abstraction. The Sims? Really? There are already houses littered about and descriptions talking about commoners' crappy dwellings. This is would just be instantiating a few that are already there.

Why shouldn't they appoint someone is a better question.

For the sake of argument -- What do you do in a house besides 'Play the Sims'?

I mean, if you're arguing for houses because they're good places to murder people, you might have my vote.

[Harmless]

Murder Aides. We're not talking about actual people here. It's still just the sims

[Eyeball]

Actually, about the first thing people were saying was it would be too much work for an overburdened staff. So no.

Sorry, Reiloth, but you're just flying off into total abstraction. The Sims? Really? There are already houses littered about and descriptions talking about commoners' crappy dwellings. This is would just be instantiating a few that are already there.

Why shouldn't they appoint someone is a better question.

For the sake of argument -- What do you do in a house besides 'Play the Sims'?

I mean, if you're arguing for houses because they're good places to murder people, you might have my vote.

Some reasons to be able to own houses:

1. Headquarters for impromptu clans and families.
2. Money sink. Gives people something to spend their 'sid on. Not just the house but furniture and such too. Stimulates the player economy (e.g. import a chest to Allanak). Stimulates the criminal economy. Who's to say a commoner PC shouldn't be able to raise the coin? Maybe he made a big score as a burglar. Maybe he's being funded as a spy.
3. Status.
4. Adds variety to the cityscape.
5. Independent merchants really should be able to own something of their own.
6. Gives people who can only play in bursts (e.g. military types) a chance to have place of their own rather than losing their apartment because they couldn't show up to pay rent or go out to greb/hunt for the rent money.
7. A reward that could be given for service. Your own property.
8. Because players (some, if not all) want to. A personalized space instead of a generic apartment.
9. A safehouse for criminals. Go out and seize that body in the night and drag it inside. No landlord and his guard to keep an eye on your doings.
10. A chance to add more secret doors into the game. Rooftop escapes, hidden rooms for templar raids to eventually discover.

[Nyr]

Aren't all of those things addressed by apartments or otherwise in-game, except for "because players want to?"

[Eyeball]

Aren't all of those things addressed by apartments or otherwise in-game, except for "because players want to?"

Some of the points are to an extent. Let's look at them.

1. Headquarters for impromptu clans and families.

With your own street entrance, people don't need to be escorted past a landlord/guard. You have a greater sense of being your own operation instead of some temporary association.

2. Money sink. Gives people something to spend their 'sid on. Not just the house but furniture and such too. Stimulates the player economy (e.g. import a chest to Allanak). Stimulates the criminal economy. Who's to say a commoner PC shouldn't be able to raise the coin? Maybe he made a big score as a burglar. Maybe he's being funded as a spy.

I suggest we really need some more things to spend money on in the game.

3. Status.
There's not much status in being a renter. But as an owner, you've moved up a notch on the social scale.

4. Adds variety to the cityscape.
New house means new places. More places for burglars to visit too. Expanding the base dilutes the tendency for the same apartment to get hit over and over too.

5. Independent merchants really should be able to own something of their own.
Please lets give indie merchants this perk.

6. Gives people who can only play in bursts (e.g. military types) a chance to have place of their own rather than losing their apartment because they couldn't show up to pay rent or go out to greb/hunt for the rent money.

This doesn't need further elaboration I think.

7. A reward that could be given for service. Your own property.
Again, a sort of status issue.

8. Because players (some, if not all) want to. A personalized space instead of a generic apartment.

9. A safehouse for criminals. Go out and seize that body in the night and drag it inside. No landlord and his guard to keep an eye on your doings.

I like this one especially. Hard to just walk by a landlord with a body or unconscious person in hand, waving cheerfully.

10. A chance to add more secret doors into the game. Rooftop escapes, hidden rooms for templar raids to eventually discover.

More secrets; how can you go wrong?  

[Nyr]

Reading over those things, I think almost all can be adequately satisfied by the existing apartment system including the new apartment complexes and warehouses.

1.  If you have an impromptu clan, I would think the warehouses would be appropriate for this, though it necessitates the funding.  Families and having a house in Zalanthas != something that is necessarily needed.
2.  Variety in apartments as well as specificity concerning what is available should allow for more of this.
3.  Conversely, there are some apartments that should convey a certain amount of status, and some organizations that should, and that should be represented instead of individualized housing.
4.  New apartments also mean the same thing.
5.  Independent merchants can already get a warehouse and deck that beast out.
6.  If you only play in bursts, you have options to choose, whether it be only playing in those bursts or playing a role in which you have alternatives for storage of your things and furniture while you are away IRL.
7.  See #3.
9.  I do like this one.
10.  I also like this one.

Personally, I think a modular apartment/housing system that would allow for variability and customization to a greater extent would be tops (as it could allow for the above).  However, if approved/implemented, it'd also be pretty far down the road.  And it'd still (probably) just be apartments.

[Reiloth]

A modular housing would be nice. Basically stating at renting what you would prefer -- An apartment to live in, a room with some cots, or an office space.

The more money you pay a month, the more rooms you can have (up to a maximum in the apartment building).

Generic Rooms/Room Descs are pulled from (Sort of like Tents).

It might also be cool if you can pay advance rent -- If you have 5000 sid at the moment and can pay for a year of rent, you can do that. That might help alleviate the not playing so often and lapsing on your rent.

[Reiloth]

But that's probably a topic for another thread?

[Barsook]

I think so.

[Fujikoma]

Considering there's a limited amount of place to store goods, I think it would be nice to be able to have more than two people on the lease. I mean, people are poor, I expect them to pack in like sardines and split the rent six ways on a tiny room.

[Reiloth]

I think it's a delicate balancing act.

I don't think we want two or three 'indy' barracks type buildings and make life on indies too easy. I think such rooms should be expensive, and perhaps subjected to taxes both from the Templarate and GMH to operate. But, it should be possible. Just really hard.

Zalanthas isn't your capitalist "Let's Found America" and stake a plot of land/build a store/town in the middle of nowhere ala Deadwood. I don't think there should be too much of a safety net for Indies -- They should be provided the tools to succeed (somewhat) but within the confines of a totalitarian magick/psionic run regime. The end should still serve the state, sort of like a nationalist capitalist society or something.

I guess I think modular housing would be cool (Build your own apartment to suit your own needs, be they business or pleasure) but I also don't see it as a necessary thing. For added flavor/playability, sure, but I think apartments suit most of the list Eyeball made above.

I do think paying ahead would be a neat thing, too. Maybe if all the apartments are full, you can pay the apartment lord 10k to kick someone out.