Author Topic: Please Read  (Read 9017 times)

LoD

  • Posts: 1363
Re: Please Read
« Reply #50 on: April 13, 2009, 12:42:18 PM »
I think if people realized it was a game you can not win it would clear up a lot of problems like this.

You can win it and many have done so in the past.. Saying that you can not 'win' Armageddon is wrong.

Winning a game usually requires the game to come to an end, or to restart, neither of which happen in Armageddon.  You may "win" individual encounters and find success in achieving your character's goals or forwarding your character's agendas, but when your character is dead or stored, the game persists.  And because the game is perpetual in nature and larger than any one person, there is no winning -- there is only participating.

The problem with considering Armageddon a game to be won is that you oftentimes generate an artificial "us vs. them" mentality between fellow players, staff, and even with more abstract concepts -- like game policy or code.  Unfortunately, the vehicle that helps people transcend this "winning" attitude to the next level is often fueled solely by personal experience, and there are precious few shortcuts to help players accelerate their understanding of how their actions, choices, and decisions impact the overall game.

There's a difference between the inherent missteps all of us will take during our tenure with Armageddon and the purposeful steps a minority will take because of malcontent, misunderstandings, or spite.  I think that the best method for enjoying the game is to forgive yourself (and others) their innocent missteps, while avoiding the latter crowd at all costs.

-LoD

Ramblingman

  • Posts: 64
Re: Please Read
« Reply #51 on: April 13, 2009, 03:32:46 PM »
Addressing a few things:

Quote
Original post about taking caution when hearing information from posing staff.
This is kinda a gimme and kinda not. Yes, alot of players are old enough and wise enough to realize the merit/peril of receiving information. At the same time, there are younger players, foreign players, etc, who might not be as apt to sift through what they hear or are told for truthfulness and accuracy. And also, this person wouldn'tve succeeded if there weren't people out there who actively WANTED information about the game, which leads into the next point.

Quote
Secrecy, mystery of the game etc.
Im glad this is here. Someone mentioned it being held over everyone like a holy grail. And I'm glad. The level of mystery still existent in this game for someone like myself, who has been playing almost 8 years, worked on staff, etc, is still amazing. Even as a former staff it is possible to still discover new things because they are always changing. If at any time I felt that I had seen it all, done it all, played all the concepts I wanted to, I'd be very upset. The nature of this game's allure is the mystery - of everything from areas, to skills, to plotlines. Unfortunately the more secretive the more areas for abuse, because even something as little as IC info in a mostly irrelevant plot is enough to ruin the game experience for one or two people involved in it.

Quote
Winning the game
This goes with something that Richard Bartle wrote about MMO players a way back, and that is that they can be categorized into a meld of Achievers, Explorers, Socializers and Killers. And then further broken down into Friend, Griefer, Hacker, Networker, Opportunist, Planner, Politician, Scientist. Depending on your "mode" of play, the game is indeed winnable, to a degree. You have fully-branched maxxed every class. You have seen -everything-.  You have been able any given point to kill anything that exists in the game.  But as LoD said, its about achieving personal goals. You have "beat the game" in your own set goal. And that is usually when people than retire and take a break.

Quote
OOC Bias
This exists everywhere. Bias that is. From work, to hobbies, to games. At some point, you will be in a position, with someone that has a lower opinion of you for whatever reason. Past actions of yours, race, gender, whatever. And that is unfortunate, but its an aspect of life. I believe that the staff here, being a body of people and not just an individual, are pretty good at squashing this when it arises. Yes, it might fuck over the current PC, but I believe this is such a small occurrence that its definitely an anomaly and not the run of the mill. If it is really that rampant of a thing that is occurring to you, I say first - Your still here, so enjoyment must outweigh what is happening to you, or secondly - you are making it a bigger deal than it is, which is usually the case, at least with similar problems in real life.

Like with customers at stores. I had one before that would come in and try to catch us in pricing errors after being slighted for one legitimately that went past an employee. We apologized when it occurred but then they made it into a problem, and let a small thing dominate their life, bringing it up to people in the parking lot, calling the store, etc. It was real-life griefing. And I think alot of people do that here. They let one incident in the past absorb their experience - project it, so that it seems like something that they are not a minority in, and then try to rally people to their cause with a self-aggrandized problem.


So to conclude. I believe this is a decent product, for a free, pretty unique game. Its unfortunate that people become so attached that they have a need to negatively impact other players. But for someone to perpetuate a scheme this large, or large -enough- to warrant this type of response, there are definitely unmentioned aspects in play... no player knows how to contact me OOC, except staff. I dont go to any OOC chat-rooms.  So for players to be affected by this, they had to be out there, available, in the first place. And usually players with that much noticeability, have already been staff, or know just about as much to be anyways.

Vague is good, when dealing with problems like this. But this almost seems like an irrelevant article to post, even the original post says - not going to talk about the hack, circumstances, etc. And most people, at least who responded, seem to be out of the loop. So im not really sure what the intent was here, but the conversation has definetely gone far astray from what happened.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2009, 03:38:20 PM by Ramblingman »

Incognito

  • Posts: 879
Re: Please Read
« Reply #52 on: April 17, 2009, 01:45:01 PM »
Confucius say "If random person contact you and say they are ex-staff-member, they are now probably slash-member or piercing-member!"

The figure in a dark hooded cloak says in rinthi-accented Sirihish, 'Winrothol Tor Fale?'

Heade

  • Posts: 872
Re: Please Read
« Reply #53 on: April 18, 2009, 05:22:54 PM »

Heh heh heh, I just had an amazing mental image of all the Arm players in a huge face-off, Sha on one side with the staff, and the players on the the other......Kinda like a royal rumble....with bone Ken-tar knives and Thuja-hilted war axes


We'd win, since we outnumber them 10 to 1. It'd be mob rule. And even if we didn't outnumber them, we'd win. Cuz everyone knows I'm ninja.
I used to have a funny signature, but I felt like no one took me seriously, so it's time to put on my serious face.

Sephiroto

  • Posts: 2830
Re: Please Read
« Reply #54 on: April 19, 2009, 05:59:46 PM »
It always sucks to hear about someone screwing with the MUD or GDB in a malicous manner.  It bothers me when people don't have the self-restraint to resist the urge to do something destructive out of anger.

I've been upset with the game for a while now and haven't been playing, just like many other players.  At the same time I've tried to approach my thoughts on the community with the "Zen" aspect in mind.  This way of thought has helped to remind me everything that Arm, a freaking game, has done so much to shape my life.  Without the influence I have received from other Armageddon players over the past nine or ten years, it is quite possible that I would be a different person than I am now.

It is impossible to notice that every community has problems.  For what it is worth, the Armageddon family is certainly far superior to any other online community that I've ever participated in.  While we may irritate the piss out of one another with our strong, conflicting views we are also (usually) pretty damn mature about the way we argue and discuss opposing ideas.  Sure some posts on the GDB can be quite asinine, but for a greater part it is not filled with the LOLz and infantile garbage that plague many corners of the interweb nets.

I agree with what Shaloonsh said about APM's.  I have been to many player gatherings and I have had a great time at all of them.  Armageddon has, hands down, some of the best people I've ever met among its ranks.  I am always moved by the creativity, selflessness, and good-nature I see in most of the players I meet across this country, and the world.

Our playerbase spans many race, religion, income, and professional backgrounds yet manages to get along.  We are an amazing group with a huge collection of talents.  I may want to throttle one or two of you sometimes, but when the zombies come I'm going to gang up with the rest of you folks.  We can suvive an Armageddon.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2009, 06:38:52 PM by Sephiroto »

Eloran

  • Posts: 1001
Re: Please Read
« Reply #55 on: April 19, 2009, 06:31:14 PM »
Did you post in the wrong thread?

Taven

  • Helper
  • Posts: 2185
Re: Please Read
« Reply #56 on: April 19, 2009, 06:53:07 PM »
Did you post in the wrong thread?

I think he's posted in the right thread. Look a few pages back, you'll see what he's reffering to with Shaloooooonsh posting.

I have seen a great number of excellent things come out of the minds of the players of Armageddon.  I have seen several of them grow up from high schoolers to young college kids (usually they fade out for a year or so to come back) and even a few have become family members who truly care and do their best to raise their children in a solid, loving environment.  We have students, truckers, cops, military members, tech geeks, government contractors, doctors, and at least one scientist in our midst.

That's a pretty damn healthy cross-section of humanity.  I'd say by and large we are an extremely high functioning and intelligent community, Malken.  Every group has a bad apple or two, sometimes a dozen, but that doesn't change the fact that most of our players do their damnedest to get along in real life and make life good for the people around them.

If our players were a bunch of degenerate a-holes, there is no way an APM could work.  There would be fist fights or even stabbings each year, because most of the Armageddon players have very strong personalities.  The same holds true with staff.

This problem is caused by one member who, for some reason, feels jilted, cheated, or maybe, to quote Batman, just wants to watch the world burn.  Do we know the motivation?  No.  Do we know that this is an abnormality?  Absolutely.
As of February 2017, I no longer play Armageddon.

Jingo

  • Posts: 4791
Re: Please Read
« Reply #57 on: April 24, 2009, 02:59:57 AM »
I'm sensing a possible virus. I don't recommend downloading that.
Now you're looking for the secret. But you wonít find it because of course, you're not really looking. You don't really want to work it out. You want to be fooled.

Jingo

  • Posts: 4791
Re: Please Read
« Reply #58 on: April 24, 2009, 03:15:12 AM »
Dude, just post it. We've got plenty of critiques on the board anyways. One more isn't going to offend us.
Now you're looking for the secret. But you wonít find it because of course, you're not really looking. You don't really want to work it out. You want to be fooled.

Xagon

  • Posts: 639
Re: Please Read
« Reply #59 on: April 24, 2009, 03:24:15 AM »
I scanned the file using the website http://www.kaspersky.com/scanforvirus

It checked clean.

I'm sorry that you've had such a bad experience with the game. I'm still relatively new, and my experiences have been pretty good so far. I can honestly say I know "the other side" very well, as I had to deal with an unfortunate fiasco involving my supposed cheating on an old Neverwinter Nights server.

My opinion of the administration in any organization is that they are there for a reason. They are people trusted by the organization's founders with the various tasks given to them. True, there are the occasional rotten apples, but they shouldn't dissuade you to quit the game as a whole. On the above server, I was able to get myself unbanned by appealing to the next-highest chain of command. I explained the situation, and they looked into it.

If I thought the staff were picking on me in a bad way, I'd confront them about it. If things didn't change, I'd contact their superior about it. If things still weren't in the clear, I'd talk to -their- superior, etc. If I run out of superiors, then I might think about leaving.

Life is life. Sometimes it gives you a nice warm shower. Sometimes you realize that shower is urine.

Remember, you're never in trouble if you don't get caught!

Besides, the players know best

tortall

  • Posts: 2267
Re: Please Read
« Reply #60 on: April 24, 2009, 08:46:43 AM »
Quote
It makes me feel sick when I try to abide by the rules yet I get screwed over anyways.

This is how I feel sometimes. :-( I feel like I can get more done and give more back to the MUD by skittering around the rules, and not bothering to try and get staff approval. But I don't do that because I have this thing where I follow the rules.

Unless it'll get me killed IRL. Then I ignore the rules. ;-)
The man asks you:
     "'Bout damn time, lol.  She didn't bang you up too bad, did she?"
The man says, ooc:
     "OG did i jsut do that?"

Quote from: Shalooonsh
I love the players of this game.
That's not a random thought either.

SMuz

  • Posts: 2540
Re: Please Read
« Reply #61 on: April 24, 2009, 10:06:23 AM »
Man, I'd hate to be an experienced player here. It's just a game. I'm perfectly happy with not winning :P Enjoy it.

I have a lot of love/hate for parts of this game, but I can't be bothered to mention it. Meh. It's fun if you don't try to win it. Just sit back and enjoy it. If you're twinking out and using OOC measures, you're just messing yourself up and I think this fella should be left to punish them.
Clans can give stat bonuses and penalties, too. The Byn drop in wisdom is particularly notorious.

brytta.leofa

  • Posts: 9480
Re: Please Read
« Reply #62 on: April 24, 2009, 10:20:00 AM »
I thought I'd heard that staff are not allowed to play templars, and, these days, are required to store their current character when they become staff.  Not that they can't continue to create and play new PCs, including potentially powerful ones.

It sounds to me like Allegria/Delarak was mistaking, for instance, "an NPC red robe animated by Halaster" with "a PC templar apped and played by Halaster."  Though it could be that policies have changed since his experiences here.
The sword is sharp, the spear is long,
The arrow swift, the Gate is strong.
The heart is bold that looks on gold;
The dwarves no more shall suffer wrong.

staggerlee

  • Posts: 2570
Re: Please Read
« Reply #63 on: April 24, 2009, 10:38:28 AM »
I read that entire thing, and all I saw was a lot of vitriol and bitterness... I'm still not sure what the point was.

Frankly, after way too many years and hours put into these silly little games, that kind of rant is old news.  The number one reason these things happen is people's attitudes; as a whole that will never change, but individuals can learn to avoid bitterness and in doing so extend their enjoyment of the game.

It's really sad seeing people that enjoy a game so much becoming so jaded and nasty about. I'll be playing the game as long as it's fun, as often as it's fun. (Time providing.)
"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.

"Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."

"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.

"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."

Shalooonsh

  • Storyteller
  • Posts: 1548
Re: Please Read
« Reply #64 on: April 24, 2009, 10:53:22 AM »
I thought I'd heard that staff are not allowed to play templars, and, these days, are required to store their current character when they become staff.  Not that they can't continue to create and play new PCs, including potentially powerful ones.

It sounds to me like Allegria/Delarak was mistaking, for instance, "an NPC red robe animated by Halaster" with "a PC templar apped and played by Halaster."  Though it could be that policies have changed since his experiences here.

This is true.  We require storage before activating a staff account, and no staff is allowed to play templars, or even nobles or senior agentry.  These are things that we leave in the realm of players so they can take the game in a direction that they desire.

This has not always been how things were, however, and while I am not familiar with the particular instance referenced in Delerak's self-proclaimed 'rant' (and I will not be reading it on the site posted), there could be some merit in the words.

It's a sad thing that when something you love doesn't love you in the way you desire it to, that love can turn to hate and bitterness, and I believe this is what happened in Delerak's case.  I am at least partially familiar with what happened, and this is, in my eyes, what happened here. 

The not-so-amusing thing here is that there was never any intention of 'screwing over' Delerak.  This perception is common to people who do not get what they want and are not willing to accept their own responsibility in the matter.  If something does not go your way, obviously there is a conspiracy against you.

Dude, just post it. We've got plenty of critiques on the board anyways. One more isn't going to offend us.
I try not to participate in Arm's community as much as possible. Only posting this because a few people asked me on aim to show a different point of view to people.

You have a strange definition of 'try not to participate' that, I believe, varies wildly in meaning from what I have experienced in my own real life.
I seduced the daughters of men
And made the death of them.
I demanded human sacrifices
From the rest of them.
I became the spirit that haunted
And protected them.
And I lived in the tower of flame
But death collected them.
-War is my Destiny, Ill Bill

Nyr

  • Red Fangs
  • Posts: 9033
Re: Please Read
« Reply #65 on: April 24, 2009, 11:08:46 AM »
While the rant from Delerak is pretty one-sided, I don't see a reason to remove it (thanks to those of you that reported it, however).  I have checked with another HL+ staff member before posting this (generally, we don't post player account notes except in very specific circumstances).

Account notes from one of the older accounts:

Quote
== >Player: <redacted> Email: <redacted>

Comments:
Banned for being a dipshit from hell.  Long story.  Ask, if interested.

Another one of the player's account notes:

Quote
Player: <redacted> Email: <redacted>

Comments:
Used to be <redacted>, then <redacted>. Banned twice before. Watch carefully.
Banned from the T'zai Byn.
Complete and utter twink.  Never allow a special role, in anything, ever.
Removed race elf.  He is incapable of playing one.
One of the worst players I've ever watched.
Removed dwarf, plays without focus. Jul 21, 2000
Allowing him access to the elf race option again. Watch. 000821
Banned from Kurac for ooc abuse. Still banned from Byn. 11/7/00
Removed elf option after recent game abuse and rudeness to staff. 001113
link redacted
The above is labelled: Welcome to the first ever Cheaters Discussion Board for ArmageddonMUD
Accordingly, banning for one month.  11/23/00
You know, he's kinda epic in his badness.  He's...just...so....clueless.
Board now at: link redacted
I am unbanning.  If he misbehaves, please inform me.
Currently unbanned from the Byn, until the moment he slips, as he knows. 01/19/01
Giving him dwarf and elf back for now.
Seems to have a desire to overcome past history. Would like to slowly give him the opportunity. 10/03/04
Banning so he can make a new account.  10/04/04
New account is <redacted>. 10/04/04

Newest account's account notes:

Quote
Player: <redacted> Email: <redacted>

Comments:
Previously account <redacted>. 10/04/04
Little rude in email when told his desired desc change wasn't acceptable.  10/16/04
Good RP with Nilazi dagger.  Commented.  11/11/04
Account <redacted> will be running <redacted>'s brother - cleared with the mud account.  12/18/04
Requested <redacted>'s storage, do not unstore.  1/22/05
deleted a discouraging gdb post by him, nothing major, he was notified  5/22/05
In his response: "I can apologize if you'd like"  5/22/05
Complaint recevied from another player about OOC communication in IMs. 11/03/05
Requested and received account notes. 11/08/05
Removed post that seemed to stray into the territory of flamebait from the GDB.  Emailed player.  11/19/05
Posted an active soldier list minus a PC stored the same day on the GDB, with no possible way for his character or any
other to know the other was missing. 11/27/05
After getting in a disagreement with staff, he orchestrated the suicide of his PC Argyle because he didn't like playing in
the clan anymore.  12/27/05
Was given the 'twit' flag on the GDB for continually posting jabs and insults at staff   2/22/06
Complaint received by email that he just walked into a few rooms, whacked a creature, skinned it, ate the meat, then
walked out.. while other PC's were watching - no RP involved at all.   4/17/06
link redacted  10/03/06

Karma Log:
(null) set account <redacted> karma to 1, I think he can handle a desert elf, despite his past -  5/12/05.

Of all of the player's PCs (on all accounts), only one was actually killed by slaying.
Quote
<name redacted> has died from immortal fury in room #61803, come revel in your power.

I suppose that the notes on these accounts may speak for themselves.  Even after all of that, at some point, the account did manage to get karma (which is why I included that portion of the notes too).  The player DID improve over time.  As the player matured, trust was granted.  (Later, this trust was deemed to be misplaced, as demonstrated by notes after the karma was given--but the point I want to make here is that improvement did occur.)

I would like to comment on the gist of the rant, however.

Quote
The problem comes down to lack of empathy by the staff, and horrible policies regarding avatars which are staff-played characters for starters. [snip] Naiona was playing a northern Lirathan templar, and Halaster was playing THE Plainsman, a maxxed defiler.
Quote
They win. This is my reason why playerís do not trust staff at Armageddon MUD, and never will.

Quote
I am sure there are plenty of staff that donít do the above aforementioned bullshit, and to them I salute you.

These are events that happened quite some time ago.  Since then, the staff of Armageddon have created policies that limit what staff can and cannot do with regards to avatars. 

Just as a reminder (I think it has been posted before), here's the Staff Contract, which has been around in some form or another for many years.

Quote
Armageddon Staff Contract

 Anything designed within the world of Armageddon is the sole property of ArmageddonMud[1].
 Staff-members shall read all documents on the immortal website, and shall be held accountable to adhering to these documents.
 Staff members are not to talk to, or become visible to mortals, unless it is to discuss non mud-related topics on a personal level, or with the express permission of the administration for that case.
 Staff members shall keep staff-privy information within the ranks of the staff, and away from the general populace[2].
 Staff-members shall interact with mortals only through the use of NPCs. Under no circumstances shall a quest be designed with the intention of harming or killing a pc. If such occurs, the staff member shall mail a greater immortal immediately, informing them of the situation[3]. Whenever a player comes to harm in a situation in which a staff member, either in immortal or mortal form, is involved, the staff member is responsible for emailing the account within 24 hours regarding the incident.
 Staff members shall inform the administration in advance of any prolonged absences.
 Staff-members are considered representatives of ArmageddonMud, both on and off the mud, and should conduct themselves accordingly when discussing Armageddon or related topics[4].
 The job of a staff member is exactly that, a job. Every staff member is expected to constructively add to the world for as long he/she holds his/her position.
Sub-Clauses:
[1] : Property rights will remain in ArmageddonMud's control, although if a staff member wishes a copy of their work at any time, they may request it and ArmageddonMud will mail them a copy.
[2] : Staff-privy information includes, but is not limited to, bulletin boards, spoken text on immortal channels, details of un-linked zones, documents contained on the website, email from staff mailing lists, and information on disk.
[3] : Harming shall be defined as endangering the life of a character, be it through physical harm such as damage, material harm such as the removal of all equipment or coins, or mental harm such as psionical attacks or theft of something held dear.
[4] : When discussion of ArmageddonMud is held, staff members are considered representatives, and should refrain from making statements that could potentially harm the muds image. This includes, but not limited to flaming other muds in comparison to Armageddon, making snide comments towards others discussing Armageddon, and otherwise acting irresponsibly while discussing Armageddon.

The bolded part is the "no harm" rule I mentioned above.  We cannot (and do not) create plotlines for the sole purpose of harming or killing a PC.  The staff does a good job of adhering to this and we police each other on this.  However, this is coming from the perspective of a staff member, so you will have to either trust that I am telling the truth, or disbelieve it. Staff are not allowed to influence plots involving their PCs, either.  People have been fired from staff for affecting their avatars with their staff influence.

I joined staff in the summer of 2007.  I made the mistake of telling one of my Armageddon friends that I got accepted into a Storyteller position.  (I don't blame this person or any people that received the leaked information.  This was my fault, and I was willing to accept the responsibility and the bullshit that comes from making a mistake like this.)  At the time of my accepting the staff position, I was playing a sponsored role.  I was not required to store the role.  Some time later, guidelines were put into place that all new staff members would be required to store existing characters, regardless of their role in the game.  My position was "grandfathered in," however, and the staff generously allowed me to continue playing the role.

Due to the leak of information that I entered Armageddon staff, there were rumors going about.  I'm sure that many suspected favoritism, me altering plots to suit my character, my involvement in deaths, etc.  I did my best to bend over backwards to abstain from any appearance of these things, but I was in a tricky situation.  How could I explain what the truth was without exposing myself as a staff member that also played a prominent role?

I found a solution that worked for me, at least.  I regularly checked in with other staff members on the clans I helped staff.  Any time that an issue even remotely dealt with my character, I asked the corresponding staff of my clans to make the decision on it.  In my opinion, this gave me a lot of experience with looking at problems and plots from an objective point of view, simply because I was forced to.  As a Storyteller, I was not allowed to log on with my staff avatar and my player character at the same time, so whenever I did have to animate, I had to take great care to make sure I did not influence things my character was involved in.  There were many downsides to this--for one, my time was split between the two.  For another, I was putting more work on other staff members, and they didn't deserve that.  I am glad that future staff members that we recruit will not have to deal with the difficulties that arose from that (since we now require oncoming staff to store their current roles as a requirement).

The reason I was so worried about how things looked was precisely -because- of the history of these rules and their creation.  There was a reason these rules and guidelines were created.  There have been some pretty nasty things that have happened in the history of Armageddon, but this is not the game that exists now.   Unfortunately for anyone that feels jaded or wronged, there's no way for us to prove this to you.  I've seen players get chips on their shoulders against certain staff members (me included) when things do not go their way.  All we can do in those cases is iterate what has been said before: we have a contract that we do our best to abide by.  We can't reveal IC information or explain the decision-making process behind every staff decision that affects a player in any way (be it directly or indirectly).

The administration of Armageddon is a work in progress.  It is always evolving into something new, and I believe that it is evolving into something better each time we make changes on policies and introduce new things.
Paint on a mustache and be a dude for a day. Stuff some melons down my shirt, cinch up a corset and pass as a girl.

With appropriate roleplay of course.

SMuz

  • Posts: 2540
Re: Please Read
« Reply #66 on: April 24, 2009, 11:31:05 AM »
:-X

You guys are scary when dealing with disgruntled players.

Also, I think it's unfair that the guy has 1 karma and I don't. *shakes fist impudently*
Clans can give stat bonuses and penalties, too. The Byn drop in wisdom is particularly notorious.

Eloran

  • Posts: 1001
Re: Please Read
« Reply #67 on: April 24, 2009, 11:48:36 AM »
Wait.

Wait.

You're telling me that Delerak, disgruntled in his position with Argyle, ORCHESTRATED THE MOST ELABORATE SUICIDE ON ARMAGEDDON MUD EVER WITH THE HELP OF HALASTER AND NAIONA?

Because from the information I could glean, Argyle was captured  by Plainsman and given to Eunoli, where he was then questioned and executed in the holding cells of Tuluk.

Was this colorful wording on your part, or are you really accusing Delerak of lying?


SMuz

  • Posts: 2540
Re: Please Read
« Reply #68 on: April 24, 2009, 12:04:57 PM »
Careful what you say, Eloran, or you may be "suicided" too.
Clans can give stat bonuses and penalties, too. The Byn drop in wisdom is particularly notorious.

Jingo

  • Posts: 4791
Re: Please Read
« Reply #69 on: April 24, 2009, 12:12:02 PM »
Plainsman and Eunoli. *shudder*

Together they're almost as scary as Quick.

Edited to fix typo that jabbed me in the eye with a fork.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2009, 12:24:33 PM by Shalooonsh »
Now you're looking for the secret. But you wonít find it because of course, you're not really looking. You don't really want to work it out. You want to be fooled.

jhunter

  • Posts: 6103
Re: Please Read
« Reply #70 on: April 24, 2009, 01:00:14 PM »
There were some issues I encountered with Plainsman and Eunoli that I felt were unfair as a player involved with those characters. Truth be told, it's one of the main reasons that my playing has slowly dropped off over time since then. I figured out that Plainsman was Halaster's pc on my own due to a slip up he made on the GDB, the same slip up that he gave away he was using his staff status to benefit Plainsman and take out my pc. The issues with Eunoli were those of npcs backing up Eunoli and everything the character did, while shutting down any other pcs and constantly keeping Eunoli on a pedestal and keeping others down. I suspected Eunoli was a staffer's pc because of the way things went down at the time. Now it is confirmed.
You say things have been changed to prevent such occurances, I really hope so, the issues I dealt with as a player involved with those characters left a bitter taste in my mouth and I haven't been able to get fully into the game since.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2009, 01:02:15 PM by jhunter »

Mudder

  • Posts: 782
Re: Please Read
« Reply #71 on: April 24, 2009, 01:01:52 PM »
Delerak's gripe, in my opinion, is legitimate. In regards to the character Plainsman, I can state with all
 certainty that said avatar manipulated players ooc, and cheated in a myriad of ways:
  
 My second pc ever, Tombs, was a Rukkian. He had a whiran that befriended him. The two became
 inseperable and went on many adventures together. One of their adventures led them into the
 keep Plainsman and his coterie of power rangers had taken over.
  
 We ended up taking a good bit of obsidian and a few books. In the process of the theft, the whiran
 accidentally junked a book on our way out.

 We ended up taking a good bit of obsidian and a few books. In the process of the theft, the whiran
 accidentally junked a book.

http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,18759.msg199885.html#msg199885
  
 Provided above is the link to Halaster stating "how shitty that is," in regards to the junking of a unique
 item.
  
 Fast forward an RL day:
  
 The whiran and I are on another one of our unforgettable adventures, traveling deep into a mountain
 range far away. As we reach a rather secluded area, we heard flapping wings in the distance. Fearful,
 we attempted to leave, only to be given an echo of "You hear something and do not want to leave."
  
 Not long after, an apparition appears before us. A plot was revealed to us and a potion was given with
 instructions to drink. Thereafter, <insert nasty monster that might not be kosher to reveal> shows up.
 The whiran, fearful for his life, flees the scene with a spell, leaving me by myself to deal with the two
 beings. Considering I had no other alternatives, I drank the potion, was immediately knocked out,
 and flagged with a certain spell that is rather detrimental to particular guilds.

Upon waking up, the ghost and monster had vanished, leaving me by myself. I climbed back down
 on my own and began making my way across the lands, still unable to call upon my magick for
 support. I logged out for a short break, came back five minutes later, and continued on my way.
  
 No less than five minutes upon logging in, the Plainsman appeared to me abruptly, accusing me of
 being the one who stole from him. There I was cut down by a disgustingly powerful spell, and thus
 ended the story of Tombs.
  
 Let's look over a few things:

1) How could the Plainsman possibly have known that it was both of us that stole from him when we
 were protected by magick and never seen by any type of guard or spell in his impenetrable keep?
  
 2) Why did the potion I was ordered to drink knock me out long enough for my buffs to wear off while
 simultaneously putting a particular spell on me that kept me in a vulnerable position? Could it have been
 so that Plainsman would have an easier time catching me/killing me?
  
 3) Was Halaster vengeful for having lost his book? I'd wager that yes, he was.
  
 4) Could there be a plausible explanation for everything that occured, up to and including the
 spell in question that left me -completely defenseless-? Possibly, all of this together sure makes
 Halaster look guilty.
 In conclusion, my experiences with staff have been amazing. My first character ever was in the Legion,
 and I had a chance to play with Eunoli - I never had problems with her, and to my knowledge, Naiona
 was responsible with the powers given to her. Minus the potential conflict of interest with her helming
 the AoD while playing Eunoli, she seemed to handle it well.
  
 As for Halaster, though, I cannot say that I respect or admire him as a player or former staff member.
 I've heard many, many stories about how he abused his role in the game, implemented spells for the
 sole purpose of killing adversaries, and loading magickal items for other pcs to find before swooping
 down with his avatar and taking said items from them so that an IC reason can be given to justify his
 actions.
staff member sends:
     "No problem. We'll just eat your brainz later

Morgenes

  • Board Administrator
  • Posts: 2419
Re: Please Read
« Reply #72 on: April 24, 2009, 01:05:14 PM »
Wait.

Wait.

You're telling me that Delerak, disgruntled in his position with Argyle, ORCHESTRATED THE MOST ELABORATE SUICIDE ON ARMAGEDDON MUD EVER WITH THE HELP OF HALASTER AND NAIONA?

Because from the information I could glean, Argyle was captured  by Plainsman and given to Eunoli, where he was then questioned and executed in the holding cells of Tuluk.

Was this colorful wording on your part, or are you really accusing Delerak of lying?

There are always two sides to every story, from the staff people involved's perspective, his actions led to the death of his character.  I would say that suicide may not be the right term to have used.  Unfortunately neither Halaster nor Naiona are around to give any more details, but I would trust that there was more to the story than what was posted in the 'rant'.  
Morgenes

Producer
Armageddon Staff

jhunter

  • Posts: 6103
Re: Please Read
« Reply #73 on: April 24, 2009, 01:07:44 PM »
It's pretty obvious, I was that whiran. Which was killed probably later that very same day by Plainsman as well after showing up out of the wild maroon yonder and questioning me about those same books. It was the very post you linked Mudder, that I made the discovery of who he was and how he used his status as a staffer to get my character and yours.

Morgenes

  • Board Administrator
  • Posts: 2419
Re: Please Read
« Reply #74 on: April 24, 2009, 01:14:26 PM »
The thread as originally posted has served it's purpose, so I'm locking it.

If you have complaints about specific staff actions, please use the complaint channels available to you outside of the GDB.

I understand that it can be frustrating when seeming OOC abuse affects/kills your characters.  Please remember that there are multitudes of ways for things to be discovered that are available to the player base.  Just because things don't go your way doesn't mean we're actively plotting against you.
Morgenes

Producer
Armageddon Staff