Weapon Skills

[creeper386]

I was just wondering what everyones opinion was on having subskills for the different weapon sets. Something so that when using a spear all your life won't mean you are automatically skilled with a rapier or dagger. Give distinction between club and staff and so on and so forth.

I'm just wondering this because SO many times ICally I'm told just to suppliment one weapon for another when training and such just because code-wise it's the same thing, and ICally the other type of training weapon or what have you is hard to come by. It gets REALLY hard when it's a superior telling you this and you can't exactly just blow them off.

Creeper who believes he mentioned this earlier and everyone told him to shut the bleep up but is deciding to venture there again, and with a poll.

[crymerci]

I do agree that there are certain weapons that, though belonging to the same subset, are quite different in usage. Your example of a spear vs. a dagger for piercing demonstrates this. However, I voted that it's no priority for one reason: because once you start down this road, there's just going to be more and more differentiations people want made. Eventually you end up with a dozen different weapon skills, but no appreciable improvement in playability...and then you'll have people complaining that the bashing skill they learned with their club doesn't carry over to using a short staff.

It's possible to implement some changes and have them be an improvement, however it would not be a huge change, although it would be a huge undertaking.

RP it out, as the option I voted for says. Perhaps nicely ask your superior if a better selection of training weapons could be gotten.

[COGATO]

I think this is a GREAT idea, I would like to see having to learn how to use defferent weapons in contrast to using a shortsword for 5 years then turning around and being just as bad ass with a huge greatsword. It just dosent make any sence. If you use a staff for a long time then turn around and grab a double ended scythe that counts as a staff and you are just as badass as you were with your regular old staff, then how are you supposed to rp the situation, ex....The black-haired man sheathes his short light baobab shortsword as he takes a extremely large obsidian greatsword from the sandy-haired man with a nod.  The black-haired man says in northern-accented sirihish.   Kinda heavy eh mate? Never used something this big before, only used my shortsword for the past few years.  The sandy-haired man nods with a slight grin pulling a long spear from his back.   The sandy-haired man exclaims in southern-accented sirihish as he charges foward swinging down his staff quickly toward the black-haired mans head.  Time to die northy!  The black-haired man swings his extremely large obsidian greatsword with supurb skill and quickly disposes of the sandy-haired man.....


DOES ANYONE ELSE SEE THE STUPIDITY IN THIS ENTIRE SITUATION? *Cogato who flenches waiting for the flames to pour upon him like the firey rage of all mighty Suk-Krath*  

I would just like to see that fella who has used the same two scimitars for his entire life actually have an advantage over the guy who just substituted his light wooden shortsword he has used for the same amount of time for an extremely heavy obsidian greatsword he has never even touched before.

*Cogato who shrugs as he realises he is probably missing some crack in the logic behind this*

[John]

I agree completely COGATO. But it'd be a bitch to code. As crymerci said, it'd become EXTREMELY hard with all the differences that would eventually rise up.

As for not being able to use a weapon. IMO you'd still be able to beat up the other guy. Skill doesn't just come from brute strength. It also comes from using it properly. Emote out using it pathetically, but somehow managing to survive.

If you see "parries deftly" emote "swings sword widely, barely managing to deflect the blow"

RP it out.

[creeper386]

Now, what I'm thinking about, isn't completely new seperate skills, but SUB-SKILLs of current ones. Any outside skills would still look to the four main skills and such, but it'd at least break up differences between weapons. And actually Cogato, thats one of the other things I had in mind. Kind of like using scimitars all your life and being skilled when you pick up a longsword, you might benefit from you knowledge you gleamed from fighting(Why I beleive they shouldn't be absolutely seperated and still have some effect) but you wouldn't be greatly skilled. Fighting with scimitars compared to longswords would be different. Heck, fighting with knives and daggers are even different. Even small physical differences make for a different style needed.

Sure with a dagger and a spear, your going to be looking for similar spots to hit because your not going to have the weight of a massive sword behind your blows, but small things like even a short spear being longer, not having any sort of crossguard(Dagger may not have a crossguard but a spear CERTAINly isn't going to have one) having more weapon back behind you hand(Short war spears are normally gripped in the middle, not on the end like a dagger) and so on and so forth.

Other things it could benefit are staves and clubs, they are INCREDIBLY different. Also archery could probably be helped by this. I find it quite funny that people train how to use a bow, with a sling because the ammo is cheaper... Using a modern slingshot would help you better with a bow then a sling... But really it's just as rediculous as buying cheap daggers to practice with and once you get good picking up a rapier, or some short spears or something... It really shouldn't happen, even though it does because the code doesn't allow.

Would this type of change be a big hinderous? Yeah, probably, although I don't think it should be DRASTICALLY changed, in the least it can be categorized, well lets use slashing, into short and long weapons, and curved blades, they'd all be hidden skills under slashing weapons, but make it so it's alittle harder to become a weaponsmaster of sorts.


Creeper

[COGATO]

I know how it can be coded and its not that hard. This mud www.vampirewars.com has already coded it. This is by far one of the worst muds I have ever played but, they have managed to code exactly what were talking about here. And it works perfectly, despite the rest of thier mud.

[Cenghiz]

Nope... I'm training nunhacku for a long time. I may easily use every kind of nunhacku easily. The length, weight and flexibility causes me to act clumsy for -at most- an hour then I get used to the new nunhacku. You learn the moves, attack and defences, the stances while training a weapon. So you may easily get used to the new type of weapon.

Note: Sorry I'm not good at English so I can't describe the weapons, but nunhacku is Bruce Lee's favored weapon. That clue is enough I think. I don't know its name in common English and the dictionaries don't, too.

[Just a thought]

Awhile back some people were discussing the possiblity of changing the code to give players the ability to decide how much of their fighting skill is put offence/deffence.  (I believe it had to do with sparring and that a teacher doesent want to use full streigth on a student)

Anyhow I would think something that allowed players to control how well they faught (for their ability) would be an easy way to code-modify using different weapons.  That way a good RPer who knows their charater has only been trained a few weapons can simply tone down how much skill they use when using different weapons.

I dont know much about codeing, but i would think it would be easier to allow players to adjust their use of skill than trying to sub-skill every kind of weapon.

[Lazloth]

Awhile back some people were discussing the possiblity of changing the code to give players the ability to decide how much of their fighting skill is put offence/deffence.  (I believe it had to do with sparring and that a teacher doesent want to use full streigth on a student)

Just a caveat : the discussion you allude to (found most recently here) was among players regarding something that was considered (by players) to be a nice, value-added snippet.  There was never any indication that this was received in a similar manner by the immortal staff -- in other words, don't hold your breath.

[gfair]

It is perfectly acceptable to RP your experience or lack of experience with any weapon type, it need not be coded.  The code may show you to be superb with a weapon you've never used before - code is code, take it with a grain of salt when it comes to implications about characters, but pay particular attention to their combat emotes.

You can RP learning new weapons, or using them with uncertainty, or even when there is no combat you can do training exercises or puzzle out in your mind some offense/defense moves to try out.

Remember - adding code is tough for the IMMs, while adding RP is easy for the player.

[Cenghiz]

An idea... Remove and wield back the weapon to attack clumsy in a battle. I did it a few times when kicked hard. It works for RP and gives you some time to emote your dizziness. It's a funny code or I'm the jack of all trades, I hit viciously or even gravely when something bashes, kicks me. So I usually remove my weapon when these are done to my char not to try to explain this weird situation, or I "emote swings wildly as he stumbles with the force of %<bla> kick."
I think telling PC opponents the reason by some kinda "emote stumbles as he tries to swing, hardly holding ~sword" and just removing and wielding regularly may make it.