assess -v command

[Samoa]

Brought up in General Discussion briefly, I know the staff does not regularly peruse that, so I thought this might be a better forum.

Indeed, a few times 'he appears old for his race' or something like that does tend to kind of screw half-elves or other people in a race-delicate situation like that (like maybe a really, really handsome gith).

My proposal is that it would be left entirely from an objective racial view, as in, if one human assess another, it would still be 'he appears young for his race' - now, this makes judging people harder, but truthfully, is it not like that in real life?  Just look at some Japanese models; over there, the ideal is to try and appear very young, and it is harder to discern since they do not give purposeful motives through clothing, makeup, etc.  Over here (the states) the situation is just the opposite, with younger people trying to make themselves appear older.  Discernability of age should be a rough estimate, but exact specifics should be left up to asking or finding out through roleplay.  If you're 10, are you really going to be able to tell the 9 and the 11 year old apart if they were both dressed and acting the same?  Likely not.  Anyway....

To make a brief summary, it would be my proposal that assess -v gives age as 'appears <xxx> for her race' always, regardless of the race of the person using the command in relation to the person being assessed.

[Fedaykin]

After reading that in the general discussion the same exact idea came to mind.

I think it would be a much better way of doing things both for those trying to hide their race and/or those trying to hide their age as Samoa said.

Besides, it'll rid those of us with older characters who don't necessarily look it of the annoying messages such as "she is very young compared to you", or the far too exact "he is slightly younger than you."

Thumbs up on this one.

[Lazloth]

Wouldn't this fall into the same code-vs-RP scenerio as arguments in most of the recent additions to this forum (semote, etc)?  :roll:  That pointed out, I wholly endorse source facilitating the RP.  Thumbs up!

[Carnage]

I support assess -v in its current place. When you start dictating what players know, I get a bit edgy. The only -possible- situation where this is a pain is with half-elves. That's it. And, if you're playing a half-elf like they normally behave, chances are high that another player is going to spot it.

If you take out the race, assess -v a hooded gith in the desert could make you think it's a human. A human. Gith are tall, hunched over figures. You would know if that was a gith or a human attacking you.

Frankly, I'd much rather see this in place. If your character has a smidgen of elf blood, then just play a human and vice versa. When I think of half-elf, I think of the idea that there's a near equal amount of human and elven blood in them.

Not to mention the fact that all races pretty much have different types of characteristics. Look at Earth. A lot of nations have physical characteristics.  Italians usually have black hair and that trademark nose. Germans often have blonde hair and high cheekbones. By looking at someone, I can usually guess what their ancestory is, and I'm not too skilled in that sort of thing.

[Marc]

I support assess -v in its current place. When you start dictating what players know, I get a bit edgy. The only -possible- situation where this is a pain is with half-elves. That's it. And, if you're playing a half-elf like they normally behave, chances are high that another player is going to spot it.

If you take out the race, assess -v a hooded gith in the desert could make you think it's a human. A human. Gith are tall, hunched over figures. You would know if that was a gith or a human attacking you.

You could just read your attackers desc?  Assess -v will also show that they are tall, maybe too tall for a human.

[Carnage]

You could just read your attackers desc? Assess -v will also show that they are tall, maybe too tall for a human.

There's nothing I love more during a spammy fight I'm unsure about winning than more spam. If anything, I'd look and make sure that description stayed in my client, so I could look back on it later if need be. That situation was merely an example to help further my point. I haven't seen any that prove assess -v is becoming a burden to people.

[Lazloth]

You can always use assess without the flag

[Lazloth]

Not to mention the fact that all races pretty much have different types of characteristics. Look at Earth. A lot of nations have physical characteristics.  Italians usually have black hair and that trademark nose. Germans often have blonde hair and high cheekbones. By looking at someone, I can usually guess what their ancestory is, and I'm not too skilled in that sort of thing.

Incidentally, I abhor comparisons of MUD/Arm "races" to "races" of humans on Earth.  Even if some "races" are genetically related, I tend to perceive them closer akin to specie than anything else.

[Typo]

I think what Carnage was trying to point out was that you don't have to have some kind of academic background to get a general idea of another person. Not that one race on Earth is comparable to another race on Zalanthas.

On topic, I have no problem with the assess -v command as it is. To me, it makes sense that if you can get a ballpark figure for their age, then you could get a ballpark idea of their race.

If you think about some of the earlier statements made, i.e. that each race on Zalanthas is a different species, then would a half-elf seem slightly alien to a human? Maybe he is too graceful, his facial structure too angular, ect.

If you can tell someone is in relatively fit condition because he walks with a limp, a little tired because he breathes deeply, then you should also be able to tell that he is a different species than you.

Of course, there is always a chance that I'm wrong...

[Lazloth]

If you can tell someone is in relatively fit condition because he walks with a limp, a little tired because he breathes deeply, then you should also be able to tell that he is a different species than you.

I'm not necessarily disputing this (though when you start messing with cloaked figures, you get into a different set of problems).  The point of this topic, near as I figure, is that the age reported in assess -v is a factor not logically available to all assessors.  Go with the specie analogy further:  you spot a sloth hanging from a tree outside.  Hrm! you think, that furry bastard is one young bastard. etc.

[creeper386]

I never really payed attention to that assess part, so it compares their age to YOUR age? I don't think it should do that, I thought it just said rather they were young or old according to their own race... But maybe I'm carrying that over from score, since I haven't payed attention to that assess part.

Generally I guestimate their age by their description/sdesc but sometimes use the age thing with other races... SHRUG.


Creeper who is confused.

[Typo]

Ha, good laugh off that post. However:

I think your example is taking it to the extreme. No one is srguing that assessing the age of a kank is bad. We are talking about at least humanoid creatures...creatures that the PC comes into contact with nearly everyday of their lives.

Although your point seems a little on the extreme, allow me to pose a counter-argument.

If a 26-year old man went to the zoo everyday of his life and saw only three attractions, sloths, hippos, and giraffes, then it stands to logic that he would know how to tell the basic characteristics of those animals from himself. Just like I know how to tell the age of a dog simply by looking at it, even though I never owned a dog.

[crymerci]

Hey, you know....sometimes I have trouble guessing the ages of other humans. I've met women my age (25) who look 35. Meanwhile, I still get carded for cigarettes. And when it comes to the elderly, I can't tell a 65 year old from an 85 year old. Some people age faster, some age slower.

To apply this to the game: a city-soft merchant or noble is probably going to look younger than a dune-runner or street beggar the same age as them. I'm not sure that it's realistic to pin down the age of another at all. So IMO the vaguer categories of "young, mature, adult, etc." are better.

[creeper386]

Well... I just got around to trying the assess command and I think it works just fine. Sure, not everyone is going to tell how old people like assessing a person of their own race gives you, BUT you can just use it as they are about as old as you or they are elderly because they are WAY older then you and what not, it's basically giving you(The OOC you) a general idea of what to convey to your character, I think you should still take into account the person short and long descriptions for anything that might change it some.

Just because what you are told OOCily you know to be correct doesn't mean you always have to convey that to your character, things like age are rarely that big of a deal except for the half-elf thing and then I don't think it matters too much, if your so close that people couldn't tell you should probably just pick human or elf in the first place. I played a half-elf that never mentioned his elven heritage and besides  from slightly elongated ears, angular/foriegn features and being scrawny he looked pretty human, and he got along just find, noone really ever asked about his heritage... I don't see that big of a deal because of that little thing.

Creeper

[Fedaykin]

Italians usually have black hair and that trademark nose.

...

Which nose is that? :twisted:

Interesting side note, did you know Italians used to looked like Germans until invasions of Moors who raped the women?  Typically the dark features are more common ammong Southern Italians, and many Northerners will still have light features.

[Eternal]

They weren't Moors!  They were Berbers! So there.   :twisted:

[ShaLeah]

I'm puertorrican. For those of you who don't know what that is, it's a small island off the coast of southern florida, between there and cuba.  On to the point.

Way back in the olden years, Puerto Rico was inhabited by a race of indians called 'Taino'. Columbus brought with him African slaves and in turn enslaved the indians as well. Puerto Rico then became a huge melting pot of Indian, African and European (mostly spaniard). The resulting racial mix gave way to anything from the very pale, blonde hair, blue-eyed, straight haired person to the ebony skinned, dark-eyed, kinky-haired opposite. Bear with me, I have a point.

I myself happen to be somewhere in the middle. Although my skin is olive, it is pale compared to most puertoricans and most americans think of me as Italian or Greek decent. My genes have since been intermingled with a huge selection of other races, mostly hispanic and other european but it never fails.  Other Puertoricans peg me as puertorican within an instant and I do the same. It doesn't matter that I don't look like the typical puertorican, they still point and say 'Boricua, right?' to which I can only grin and nod. It's immediately followed by 'I knew it!. It never fails.  Then we usually start talking about food.  

What's my point?  I can tell someone of my race, instantly, even if they are mixed with something else. I may not be able to tell with which race they have been tainted (just kidding!), but I can assure you, I can tell and so can everyone else (probably as much as 90%) who happens to be puertorrican.  In my 32 years I have never been wrong when I have asked someone if they were puertorrican, not once. You get my point, a vast majority (to be politically correct).

On to Samoa's suggestion, I see what you're saying, I used to think immediately 'half-breed' when I saw that little 'mature for her race' and saw 'woman' and hell, when I was a newbie I'd think Halfbreed trying to pass off for human!.  I have learned a bit more etiquette since then. One of my chars met a certain bard who didn't have a 'halfbreed' sdesc. My char loathed elves and anything related to that race.  This person eventually came clean, parted his hair and showed my char his tapered back ears. She felt nothing when he died on the way to Allanak with her. Even looted his corpse. *sigh* Good times. Anyway, I digress.  

I think it should stay the same.  If I can distinguish anyone with a bit of my racial heritage when there are hundreds of races in this world, why wouldn't any other relatively intelligent person be able to tell if a person is tainted or not in a world limited to 10 or so races?  Zalanthas is not earth but as any place would, their inhabitants would be able to distinguish between the races at a glance. People have always been able to differentiate between their own kind and outsiders. America is such a large melting pot it has become difficult to. In my most humble opinion, wanting to not differentiate between the races on Zalanthas is just another example of people bringing their western views into the mud.


For those of you out there that 'ass -v halfbreed with no halfbreed in their sdesc', have the decency to realize this person is obviously trying to hide their tainted, disgustingly vile side and if your character can't make out anything elven by reading his/her description, then he/she should continue to treat him/her as a human. Note as well that half-elves are the only mixed race that can be mistaken, muls are unmistakable, HG's are unmistakable and thus far we don't have half-halfings or half-gith or dwelves or dwaiants etc etc etc.


ShaLeah
-who is overly verbose for having cut out caffeine a week ago.