Kick Idea

[Marc]

I think its a pretty common consesus that kick needs some work so here is my proposal:

Kicks should check against the victims kick skill, not just to reverse, but also for damage (bending with the kick to lessen the blow etc)

Kicks should do mostly stun damage (20ish max) with a small amount of hp damage possible (5ish max).

Armor should absorb a good amount of the stun (twice the effectiveness of its hp absorbion) and hp as normal.

High strength races (half-giants, muls) should do more damage then above, but stun should still be capped at around 20, and hps at no more then 20ish for the strongest str hg.

What this means:

If you are wearing a huge amount of heavy armor, it will take a very lucky or very strong kick to do much (and make bahamets/mets less likely to fall to a barrage of kicks).

Kicks wont be the deciding factor in a fight unless one combatant is very good at it and the other isn't (as it should be)

It wont rival a good sword strike or backstab as they can now.

Feedback?

[Eclipse]

From my experience with kick, kick does take into account the victim's kick skill to determine if it lands and how seriously it hurts. Armor absorbs some damage and can absorb all of it at times. Kick is a strong attack against somebody, meant to inflict injury and debilitate them, not knock them out. When you get kicked in the head, it's definitely going to cause you to bleed or something instead of just giving you a heck of a headache. High strength does add a bonus to damage and the possibility of the kick landing I believe.

[creeper386]

In the least I think kick needs to be toned WAY down, and I don't think it should rely on the other persons kick skill in order to hit. It should rely on the other persons defense skills, all of it. Parry, Shield Use, Dodging everything. In a fight without weapons or shield, kick should have a chance of hitting, but when there are weapons involved kicking should have little to no effect, and even a chance to injure the person kicking.

NOW a halfgiant kicking, might still be able to take a dwarf out, but it's probably going to do at least some damage to him because he's going to be kicking through the dwarves weapons.

Height, wieght but more so strength should be the main relying factors if the kick is acctually able to go through someones defenses, and thats only if it's going to land first.

Someone types kick, first, it should be determined against the other persons skills if it might possibly land, if it would land this means the other person didn't dodge it. Next it should check against other defenses such as weapons and shields, with varying degrees from not going through at all to being slowed but still going through, and not being hindered at all. NOW in would come armour, armour should have alot better chance of absorbing armour then it already does, solid armour kicks should have little effect against, then down the line lowering the amount thats absorbed, banded hard leathers studded leathers soft leathers cloth. The only armour that shouldn't absorb the damage is cloth everything else should absord at least some damage everytime if there is armour in that location. NOW if any place would your throw in the kick skill and probably agility, rolling with the blow, which would lesson the damage some more with the possibility of avoiding damage altogether.

Thats how I beleive it should work. YES it would make kick fairly useless, but thats how it should be. Now, the biggest factor should be weapons, shield and armour on rather it gets through or not after a hit has been determined. If it was a street brawl with regular clothing and no weapons, kicking should be useful, but it shouldn't be useful AT ALL with combatants in full armour and loaded up with weapons.

Sure it's going to take away alot of what a warrior has. But already warriors are ALOT better at weapons then anyone else. Starting out, a ranger could have awesome agility along with a spear or polearm and be able to keep a warrior at bay, but is just slaughtered by kick. And it's ridiculous when armed warriors rely on kick. There is already in the uncomplicated fighting code that is on Arm ALOT of room for strategy, but most warriors even skilled RPers and people been around along time rely almost completely on kick to kill things. I've played in the Byn and more often then not, I get the feeling that sparring isn't to increase weapon skills or defense skills, but to get better at kick. Your body isn't a good weapon in armed combat, it's already been said there isn't any Tai Kwan Do or anything of the sorts in Armageddon. Even in our real world, a martial artist wouldn't be stupid enough to risk going at an armed person that has some skill in a weapon, most martial arts train at least alittle in weapons for that reason.

And this whole post, is me saying how Armageddon's code should relate the fact that kicking is INEFFECTIVE IN ARMED AND ARMOURED COMBAT.

Thank you.
Creeper

Kick stun should effect location too.

And groin should be added for obvious reasons.

A kick to the groin would inflict alot of pain as well as stun.

Where as a kick to the side might not hurt that bad.

A kick to the stomach (also should be added) would be stunning and painful.

A kick to the head should have the chance to knock them down

Just some ideas.

[Rindan]

I think kick should be effective in only two cases, against a person with no weapon/little skill in the weapon, and against someone on the ground.  I see nothing wrong with a good kick doing 20 points of damage.  I do think it is silly that you can land a good kick against a person/creature who is clearly able to parry aside your every attack.  If someone falls during combat, then it makes sense that a good kick in the guy against a person who is on the ground would hurt.  If the other person isn't skilled with a weapon or has no weapon, then it makes sense to be able to land a good kick.  I just think it is a little silly that highly skilled warriors use kick to beat each other to death.  If you can't hit the other guy with a sword, why can you hit him with a big old meaty leg?

[Marc]

From my experience with kick, kick does take into account the victim's kick skill to determine if it lands and how seriously it hurts. Armor absorbs some damage and can absorb all of it at times. Kick is a strong attack against somebody, meant to inflict injury and debilitate them, not knock them out. When you get kicked in the head, it's definitely going to cause you to bleed or something instead of just giving you a heck of a headache. High strength does add a bonus to damage and the possibility of the kick landing I believe.

No idea if kick already takes into account the skill of the opponent beyond reversals so no comment there.

Armor does absorb some damage, but when a kick does 30 hps of damage (pretty common really) even your obsidian breastplate isn't going to absorb much.

Kick is a strong attack, but like others have mentioned above, it shouldn't be THE attack.  No way a kick should do more damage then a real weapon all things considered, but it does often.

And strength does give a bonus to damage if its like all other attacks, but that bonus should be toned down to near nothing for everyone but the strongest dwarves, muls, and half-giants (and their equivalent non-pc races)

[Delirium]

Just noticed in a spar, that a kick was absorbed by my character's cuirass.

I've never seen that before. A new thing?

Either way, thumbs up from me.

[Dan]

If your weak and kick someone most chances are if you land their armor will absorb it. This has been around a while.

[Delirium]

Oh. Okay. Well I still like it.  

The impression I'd gotten from reading about it on the boards was that if it landed, nothing really absorbed it.

[Supreme Allah]

The impression I'd gotten from reading about it on the boards was that if it landed, nothing really absorbed it.

That's because people blow everything up on these boards. Carru/gizhat charges aren't that harmful, and I think they add a lot of flavor to the wildlife. Please, please, PLEASE don't take them out. Arm needs things like these, in my opinion, to both keep it dangerous and keep players on their toes.

And yes, I have played hunters and faced off against both of these creatures. Having them bash me was half the fun. Gave me something to roleplay as well as something to grin about IRL, since I'd never seen it before. Arm needs more things like this, I think, and I'd be very disappointed to see it gone. If anything. I'd like to see it more harmful, and more creatures made particularly dangerous.